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Thread: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    I just got an Epson Rd1s (which I adore)
    but heres the deal....sometimes I'm Spot On with the Rd1
    whereas with an Oly e1 I'm always Dead on
    Is this a complex Beast which must be Mastered (the rangefinder)
    Practice makes PURRfect
    or is a DSLR just plain Easy

    and then of course to my EYE viewing the overall photo
    the oly seems more 'REAL'
    wheras the RD1 seems more processed /homogenized
    (and YES I know I'm talking about so many issues at once)


    Whats your View ?

    Best-H
    Last edited by helenhill; 6th June 2008 at 15:30.

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    briefly, as it's late and i'm lagged: this is a complex Beast which must be Mastered and you're still not going to always get it right -- but you're much more likely to capture magic IMHO.

    are you shooting and looking at RAW on the R-D1??? the main difference, i'd have to say, is the lens. it's like a mic making the biggest difference in audio. you're using a Cron on the E-1 and a CV on the R-D1. i found the CV's i tried fairly flat (though that was the way they drew on the Epson, not necessarily all cameras).

    i loved my Epson in use immediately, but did not fall for the pictures until i got the old Lux in my hands. then i fell in love with them, hits and misses alike. hence began my obsession for older glass (though the 28/2.0 is totally awesome as is the Noctilux in newer glass)...

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    LOVE YOU....... CAM
    xo Best -H

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Helen,
    I screw the focus on a frequent basis. Welcome to my club.

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    WOW hard to believe you could have F.F. / Focus Frustration
    Your work is SUPERB
    so I'm in the Club.......

    Best xo- H

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    heres for BAD Focusing......A Shot I would have LOVED to have with HIM in Focus /rd1s 35mmcolor skopar 2.5 P II

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    I think it's kinda cool as it is. Makes him otherworldly.

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    3 months Helen, 3 months. Than you will have it all figured out . Patience
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Quote Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
    heres for BAD Focusing......A Shot I would have LOVED to have with HIM in Focus /rd1s 35mmcolor skopar 2.5 P II
    Helen, you don't mess around do you? When you miss the focus, you miss it!

    I have way too many shots like this from the M8. I like to think of them as incremental steps along the way to getting better. Like most things worthwhile, patience and practice are essential. You will persevere I'm sure.

    Best,
    Tim

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    Helen, you don't mess around do you? When you miss the focus, you miss it!
    Best,
    Tim
    Its not only that I NEED to have my HEAD examined...... now its my EYES too
    Cheers ! H
    Last edited by helenhill; 8th June 2008 at 05:28.

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    I think it's kinda cool as it is. Makes him otherworldly.
    Thanx to YOU....Mag pie
    I will start a new file for my rangefinder shots /'OTHER WORLDLINESS'
    (Wish I could get some in this World )

    Best-H

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Helen,

    this shot shows how delicate the balance can be between in focus and out of focus, especially when shooting wide open.

    look at Ethel's eye and then look at her feet. granted, she was a fairly big bird (shot at minimum distance, f/1.4) but still...

    this was at the hotel, my first stop after buying the lens and when i saw this pic, i knew i was in for a ride!

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    CAM
    Dreamy background......lovely bokeh really
    and Ethel's face is Sharp
    Good Showmanship w/regard to
    how true " the Delicate Balance between IN Focus & OUT of Focus"

    Best-H

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    What lens is that, Cam? Gorgeous.

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    thank you, Helen. not the most interesting Ethel photo (the best, of course, were OOF), but it really did show me the precarious balance i'd need to shoot it wide open.

    Maggie, it's an older (late sixties, early seventies) chrome Summilux 50. different than the pre-asph version most of the people seem to have here, but i much prefer its character. whilst theirs focus closer, i think mine has much more glow and is still surprisingly sharp wide open. the bokeh is beautiful as well... there's just something magical about it and it was love from the first snap. i'm keeping my eye out for other lenses from this era now. i've been spoiled

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Strange you lot are having problems focusing - I've never had an oof shot in my life

    Helen - focusing with a rangefinder is definitely a practice thing - and I've got shots that much out of focus too - It's when you think you're lining up twig a with twig a . . . but actually it's twig a with twig b!

    As for the E1 - Everyone I know who has had one simply things that it's a wonderful camera, little LCD 5mp and slow speed notwithstanding. The colour is lovely, and so are the lenses, and the handling . . . .don't get rid of it!

    My son (who is a fine photographer) had the pick on a recent trip to Croatia . . . he took the old E1 with the new Zuiko pancake, and thinks that it's wonderful.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Jono
    I just saw on Stephen Gandy's 'CAMERAQUEST' site
    a used RD1 /mint condition box & all for $1800.00
    not sure if thats in your budget considering your M8, D3, GX100, Dlux3 and God knows how much GLASS

    and I do ADORE my RD1s not sure about the 35mm viewpoint /
    should have done a 50mm & then a 28 and probably NEVER a 35 !!

    but the E1 & cron is actually Erics and I borrow it ...... hehehe

    Today Focusing was dead on ....YEA!!

    Best-H

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Quote Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
    Jono
    I just saw on Stephen Gandy's 'CAMERAQUEST' site
    a used RD1 /mint condition box & all for $1800.00
    not sure if thats in your budget considering
    Hi Helen
    What's a budget? is it some kind of a bird?

    Actually, that would be fine if it were here, but by the time I've paid carriage to the UK and all the taxes, it would probably add another $600 - not so good.

    Thanks for the heads up though - I'll keep looking.

    Just this guy you know

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    asabet
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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    I didn't want to plunge in with an expensive digital rangefinder, so I bought a Bessa R3a and M-Hexanon 50mm f/2 to see how I would get along with a rangefinder camera. I enjoyed the combination quite a bit and quickly adjusted to focusing with the rangefinder. However, in the end, I preferred using my old Olympus OM-2n and OM 40mm f/2. While many enjoy seeing the "whole" picture, looking around the outside of the frame, and shooting with both eyes open (possible with the Bessa 1:1 viewfinder), I prefer to get a DOF preview along with the more precise framing an SLR viewfinder offers. More than that, I enjoy being able to manually focus and take the shot without recomposing, impossible with the rangefinder and a breeze with the large, bright matte focusing screen in the OM-2n.

    Unfortunately, the 5D is too large, heavy, and loud, while the E-420 and 25mm pancake (arrived yesterday) is too difficult to manually focus, impossible to zone focus (no distance window and focus point resets whenever you turn the camera off), and limits my DOF control. Of course neither offers aperture control on the lens. If there were only a digital OM, just like my OM-2n, I think I'd be able to commit to a single camera. Perhaps .

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Hi Amin
    Have you tried an E3?
    It has a lovely clear viewfinder for manual focusing.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Hi Jono, I haven't tried an E3. Hopefully Olympus will see fit to get that E3 viewfinder in a future E-4xx series camera. That would be a step in the right direction for my needs!

    Regards,
    Amin

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    Hi Jono, I haven't tried an E3. Hopefully Olympus will see fit to get that E3 viewfinder in a future E-4xx series camera. That would be a step in the right direction for my needs!

    Regards,
    Amin
    Hi Amin
    I quite agree - it seems that NO camera manufacturer will accept that there are people who will pay decent money for small - it's clearly possible to make a high quality small dSLR - just nobody does it.

    A metal bodied 4/3 camera with the software and viewfinder of an E3 would be a real winner for me . . . . . let's hope it isn't too long a wait!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    Maggie, it's an older (late sixties, early seventies) chrome Summilux 50. different than the pre-asph version most of the people seem to have here, but i much prefer its character. whilst theirs focus closer, i think mine has much more glow and is still surprisingly sharp wide open. the bokeh is beautiful as well... there's just something magical about it and it was love from the first snap. i'm keeping my eye out for other lenses from this era now. i've been spoiled
    Hummmmmm...

    May I ask how much it cost? I might have to look for one.

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    50 lux pre-ASPH last version

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Cindy:
    Magnificent....... Dreamy,& Lush

    this was shot with the M8......OF COURSE

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Cindy -- show off!!! really lovely, though, in a showy-offy sort of way. (just joshing. i'm jealous as i couldn't do a pretty picture to save my life. )

    Maggie, i got mine for around $900 (plus shade), but i've seen the prices vary anywhere between $600 and $!600 on ebay. the 50 Lux is most definitely one i prefer the pre-asph version of. i'm madly in love with MY version because it glows like nobody's business (even stopped down) and gives a flavour to the images that can't be replicated easily in PP. Cindy's version (and the one Jack has -- as well as many others here) is the latest version of the pre-asph and probably, technically, the best. it has a built in shade, i believe, and the draw is very delicate and beautiful. mine is a little more other-worldly but hardier. difficult to explain, but it's there.

    regardless, the character of any of the pre-asph 50 Luxes is very underated IMO. there is something very special about it but it doesn't pound you over the head. if i was using a film camera, i think i'd be loathe to use anything else. even with the 1.5 of the Epson, it is still by far my favourite lens (and you know i'm a wide angle girl).

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Interesting! Thank you, Cam.

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    chopsticks

    Quote Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
    Cindy:
    this was shot with the M8......OF COURSE
    rapping you on the knuckles, Helen!

    yes, it was the M8. more importantly, it was Cindy! she has gorgeous shots of flowers on other cameras, other lenses as well. she could probably do one on a cell phone...

    it's NOT the camera. it's NOT the lens. it's THE PERSON pressing the shutter!

    you've got two pretty f***ing fantastic cameras right now, USE THEM!

    i know i'm never going to be able to get pretty flower images no matter what camera or lenses i may have at my disposal. frankly, i don't think they're your forte either.

    i know i've waxed poetic about my Lux -- and, yeah, it helps make less than spectacular pictures a little bit more special -- but still. i'm content. will i get every last detail the M8 can give me? no! but i get what i need. the essence of an image.

    now go put the Rolling Stones on your iPod and start shooting!

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    Re: chopsticks

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    rapping you on the knuckles, Helen!

    yes, it was the M8. more importantly, it was Cindy! she has gorgeous shots of flowers on other cameras, other lenses as well. she could probably do one on a cell phone...

    it's NOT the camera. it's NOT the lens. it's THE PERSON pressing the shutter!

    you've got two pretty f***ing fantastic cameras right now, USE THEM!

    i know i'm never going to be able to get pretty flower images no matter what camera or lenses i may have at my disposal. frankly, i don't think they're your forte either.

    i know i've waxed poetic about my Lux -- and, yeah, it helps make less than spectacular pictures a little bit more special -- but still. i'm content. will i get every last detail the M8 can give me? no! but i get what i need. the essence of an image.

    now go put the Rolling Stones on your iPod and start shooting!

    CAM YOU WICKED PERSON YOU (my knuckles FELT that)
    Busted !! and peeing in my pants from your RANT
    Anything CINDY does is FAB.....
    and as for Flowers YES your right not my Forte but I've been working in Greenwich Conn & its LOVELY but BORING......
    I need Street Confrontations, Demonstrations ...... to make me come ALIVE
    Does anyone want to send me to where theres some ACTION to get my ADRENALINE FULL & PUMPING...cocking & clicking with the rd1
    (the E1 is Eric's / I Borrow )

    excuses aside
    I will Try with the Rolling Stones playing in the Background & Some Roxy Music-Bryan Ferry-KateBush-Tom Waits TOO

    BEAUTIFUL Shot by the way MISS SMARTY PANTS Cam
    Old World B&W Grace & Charm with a Modern Day Edge
    and just GOT IT ....YOU meant the GRD2 (NOT the Oly)

    xo -H
    Last edited by helenhill; 12th June 2008 at 10:34.

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    yes, the Ricoh... as for the Stones, You Can't Always Get What You Want was what was playing through my head as i ranted. and you know i was ranting a wee bit to myself as well

    sorry about your pants, though. you can send me the dry-cleaning bill.

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    I'm up here in small town Wisconsin, and there are no confrontations going on. I have nothing to shoot except pretty flowers. In fact, I went out in the rain this morning looking for subjects that were not pretty. The pickings are slim.
    The R-D1 is a very capable camera and heaps of fun to use. I'm looking for lots of interesting, gritty photos from you Epson girls.

    Cam, wonderful shot. Keep them coming.

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    Re: In a Rudimentary Sense: DSLR versus Rangefinder :Why One or the Other

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Amin
    I quite agree - it seems that NO camera manufacturer will accept that there are people who will pay decent money for small - it's clearly possible to make a high quality small dSLR - just nobody does it.

    A metal bodied 4/3 camera with the software and viewfinder of an E3 would be a real winner for me . . . . . let's hope it isn't too long a wait!
    Jono,

    My dream small high quality dSLR would be modern version of the Olympus Pen and the lenses to match it. A half frame sensor would be just fine.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


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    Re: chopsticks

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    ...will i get every last detail the M8 can give me? no! but i get what i need. the essence of an image...
    Sure, nice image too

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