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Sigma SD1

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I've downloaded most of the samples The largest jpeg file is 23MB. That's a lot of detail from a 14MP camera. No idea if there's more detail than with a D3X, but I enlarged some of the to around 40MP, and even when doing that from jpegs, there's a lot of detail.

Some people might actually buy that camera. Samples are here:

http://www.sigma-sd.com/SD1/sample-photo/index.html

Oh, and colours look great to :)
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Here's a sample taken with the 24-70 zoom:

The whole picture



A 100% crop from the lower part in the middle after enlarging to 8000px longest side, slightly over 40MP

 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
One more. I've marked the area of the crop here. This one is taken with the 50mm at f/9.0.





Not exactly MF quality, but I don't think I could do this with my D300 :)
Again, it would be interesting to see what can be done if the enlarging is done directly from the RAW files.
 

Lars

Active member
Well, it surely blows away my D700 WRT detail hehe.

Pricing-wise, obviously Sigma wants it to be compared to for D3x and 1DmkIV (not to mention the Pentax 645D).

Even if the camera can compare favorably to those top of the line fullframe DSLRs, it's going to be a hard sell until Sigma gets its lens act together to produce lenses of consistently high quality. And then there's the sensor size - my guess is at that price point most buyers want at least fullframe.

Because of the above, I think price has to come down a lot for this camera to become anything but a commercial failure. Not down to Jorgen's 7D perhaps, but below the $5K mark at the very least.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Nice that this camera is finally hitting the market!

Bad that the price is too high. I would guess that $5k would be the absolute maximum to ask for the SD1.

Maybe we will price see coming down :eek:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Nice that this camera is finally hitting the market!

Bad that the price is too high. I would guess that $5k would be the absolute maximum to ask for the SD1.

Maybe we will price see coming down :eek:
Not maybe. MSRP on the 50-500mm OS is $2,400 according to Sigma's American website. Street price is $1,659, or 31% down. The difference is similar similar for most products. MSRP for the SD1 including the 24-70mm f/2.8 and the 70-200mm f/2.8 is $8,649, also according to their website. Deduct 31% from that and you have around $6,000 including some $1,500 worth of lenses. That's a net camera price of $4,500.

The 70-200 (non-OS) is an outgoing model and the 24-70 probably a slow seller due to negative reviews, so they represent more or less dead capital for Sigma, but for a new Sigma owner, they are good value, so it's probably a good deal for both parties.

I wonder how the $9,700 price found its way into the press releases when not even their own website reflects that price. Maybe they simply wanted some feedback before settling for the final price :confused:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Just to take it to the extremes, I enlarged one of the jpeg files to 16,000px longest side. That's more than 160MP, or around 330cm tall printed at 120ppi. Photo taken with the 120-300mm f/2.8 @ 120mm and f/4.5, ISO200.

The whole photo


The 100% crops












This is at low ISO, but as far as I can judge, DR and shadow noise as well as detail hold up surprisingly well even at this extreme enlargement. I can't wait to get my hands on some RAW files.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Just to take it to the extremes, I enlarged one of the jpeg files to 16,000px longest side. That's more than 160MP, or around 330cm tall printed at 120ppi. Photo taken with the 120-300mm f/2.8 @ 120mm and f/4.5, ISO200.

The whole photo


The 100% crops












This is at low ISO, but as far as I can judge, DR and shadow noise as well as detail hold up surprisingly well even at this extreme enlargement. I can't wait to get my hands on some RAW files.
I see a lot of CA in all these images!

Not too great ....
 

retow

Member
Still too high IMHO - at this price it is a NO GO for me!
They usually sell at 2/3 of the list price in the US market. But even then, it is still too high. Priced in the usd 2500 range and changed to Leica R-mount, it could be interesting.
 

bensonga

Well-known member
They usually sell at 2/3 of the list price in the US market. But even then, it is still too high. Priced in the usd 2500 range and changed to Leica R-mount, it could be interesting.
That was my thought also.....something priced along the lines of a Sony A900, Canon 5D2, etc and then I switch the lens mount to Leica R and voila....I've got a digital SLR for the R lenses and I can still use them on my R8. It's the only reason I was thinking of buying a SD1.

Gary
 

EsbenHR

Member
I see a lot of CA in all these images!

Not too great ....
With this kind of sensor, this could be fixed in software without loss of quality. It is significantly harder to do that with a Bayer sensor, but advanced RAW-converters have nailed that by now.

This assumes that CA is dominated by lateral CA, which it looks like to my eyes.

Sigma just needs to bundle with a good RAW-converter, which should be possible at that price range.
 

photoSmart42

New member
Price the camera body at $3000 MSRP and you have a winner - until the D4 and the 5D3 come out. Anything higher than that and it's a dud. Yes, some may buy it, but only a very, very few.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Price the camera body at $3000 MSRP and you have a winner - until the D4 and the 5D3 come out. Anything higher than that and it's a dud. Yes, some may buy it, but only a very, very few.
It's not as simple as that. To me, the resolution seems to be higher even than the D3X, and I would be very surprised if the D4 surpasses that. The D3 is only 12MP. What the 5D3 will offer, we don't know, but Canon haven't performed any quantum leaps lately.

Another side of this is the colours etc. Those who like the output of the Foveon sensor will probably prefer the Sigma even if the resolution is the same. It seems to me that the street price will end up around $5,000 body only. That's $2,000 more than the Canon, which will probably be the most relevant competition. In the consumer market, that's a lot, but the SD1 is definitely not a consumer camera.
 

hot

Active member
Sigma just needs to bundle with a good RAW-converter, which should be possible at that price range.
It's like a car with 10 slaves - they push your car ...
If I need such a program, I'll forget the camera ... if $ 99 or $ 9.700 ...
 

ustein

Contributing Editor
Just comparing camera body prices does not help. People who shell out that money care about a good lens selection. Not sure Sigma is up to it.
 

retow

Member
It's not as simple as that. To me, the resolution seems to be higher even than the D3X, and I would be very surprised if the D4 surpasses that. The D3 is only 12MP. What the 5D3 will offer, we don't know, but Canon haven't performed any quantum leaps lately.

Another side of this is the colours etc. Those who like the output of the Foveon sensor will probably prefer the Sigma even if the resolution is the same. It seems to me that the street price will end up around $5,000 body only. That's $2,000 more than the Canon, which will probably be the most relevant competition. In the consumer market, that's a lot, but the SD1 is definitely not a consumer camera.
Even if the sensor is capable of excellent output and color accuracy, the question of resolving power of and sample variation nuisance with Sigma lenses make it a tough sale north of 3k.
 

EsbenHR

Member
It's like a car with 10 slaves - they push your car ...
If I need such a program, I'll forget the camera ... if $ 99 or $ 9.700 ...
They could build it into the JPEG engine in the camera. I would suggest that it would be a huge mistake to market this camera heavily at JPEG shooters.

Given the price tag, I'm assuming they want to compete in the medium format space. All medium format manufacturers relies on a RAW-processor with deep connection with the hardware to get the best results. Note that Hasselblad and Phase One both have lens correction built into their RAW converters. Alpa has released software to correct lenses used with their technical cameras. Etc.

So, if you want perfect glass that does not need any help from software, then you need to buy your gear from aliens.

Disclosure: I wrote the lens correction algorithms in Capture One. I might be a tad biased :angel:
 
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