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Sigma SD1

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Since the Sigma SD1 was first shown some time ago I am really intrigued by this camera.

http://www.sigma-sd.com/SD1/message.html

Just talked to a Sigma rep and he told me that it should be available sometimes this year (yes he could not be more precise) and the price would be between 4k€ - 5k€ - lot of money but for 45MP it seems not too much.

I wonder if this camera can hold up to (at least my) expectations.

Anyone more informations?

Thanks

Peter
 

Corlan F.

Subscriber Member
Incidentally, had a talk yesterday with a Sigma rep who said "availability in the summer" and more importantly "retail less than 2K€".

One of these guys is seriously wrong :D
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
If it's under 2K and the resolution is as great as the promise (I don't believe in real 45MP resolution, but maybe somewhere in D3X land), it's a very interesting option. Hopefully, it's as easy to change mount on this one as it has been on the previous models. My OM lenses are waiting :)
 

Corlan F.

Subscriber Member
If it's under 2K and the resolution is as great as the promise (I don't believe in real 45MP resolution, but maybe somewhere in D3X land), it's a very interesting option. Hopefully, it's as easy to change mount on this one as it has been on the previous models. My OM lenses are waiting :)
It's a 15Mp native file. Rest is software related as in the rest of the SD line.
Cropped sensor, cropped viewfinder, limited software, slow AF, less advanced firmware options, poor choice of top quality optics in the SA mount compared to Canon / Nikon / Pentax... esp. primes, dedicated WA and even standard focal lenses already tested with curvature issues on existing SD bodies etc. + somehow limited use of third party lenses via adapter and automation is lost and visibility in the viewfinder is stopped down -which is reportedly an issue.

Not a competitor to the big guys per se, more of a different / complementary proposition.

Personally i can easily see a 150mm Macro screwed on the SD1 as a second system :)



So I hope for the 2k€ !!!!
No idea Peter. We'll see :)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
If it's under 2K and the resolution is as great as the promise (I don't believe in real 45MP resolution, but maybe somewhere in D3X land), it's a very interesting option. Hopefully, it's as easy to change mount on this one as it has been on the previous models. My OM lenses are waiting :)
Well, the current Foveon chips with roughly 5MP produce something serious around larger than 14MP. So the calculation is approximately right that you would get out of 15MP basic chip something like a 45MP result.

I must say that I would be happy if it would deliver reasonable 30MP :cool:

What is more interesting that the SD1 will not use any AA filter and thus be at least as good in details as the E5, I even think it should be much better!

And finally Oly lenses - I would love to see a 43 to Sigma adapter which preserves all automatic functions between lens and body. That would really rock!

Hope dyes last :D
 

davemillier

Member
Hi

People squabble all the time over the Foveon sensor resolution relative to conventional sensors, not helped by Sigma's marketing approach. As an owner of a SD9, SD14 and a DP1 as well a number of cameras from the traditional makers, I've been able to make my own mind up.

And the answer is.....

.... Foveon sensors compare very reasonably for resolution with Bayer sensors of around twice the pixel count. The absence of both the OLPF AA filter and the need for colour demosaicing means a Foveon is pixel-for-pixel a lot sharper. They take up-ressing very well.

- In practice, I cannot see any resolution difference even with the most extreme pixel peeping, between my 3.4MP X3 SD9 and 8MP Canon 350D.

- I sometimes think I see a tiny difference between the resolution of the 4.6MP X3 DP1 and SD14 and my 12MP 450D and GF1. But we are really talking tiny differences and it might be imagination or just differences in the rendering of different parts of the subject.

Info about the SD1 is rather incomplete at the moment but there have been some snippets from people close to the product. The upcoming SD1 sensor is completely different from previous Foveons, a whole new chip architecture built on lessons they learned from years of research trying to build tiny phone sensors. The word is Sigma seem pleased with the sensor and think they have made a breakthrough, a couple of stops better on noise. Likely still behind the best Bayers but an improvement over the early Foveons.

Based on the 3x and a bit hike in pixel count, and my previous experience, as well as the comments of those who have seen sample prints at shows, resolution will be roughly around that of a 30-35MP Bayer camera (not the 45MP Sigma claim which is really the photosite count, not pixel count). The SD1 should be the highest resolving 35mm style DSLR, for a little while at least.

We shall see, hopefully fairly soon (June maybe?). My advice would still be to take all this with a pinch of salt for now, let's wait and see what the experts think when the camera arrives.

Things to consider beyond resolution:

The Foveon sensor uses the natural filtering properties of the silicon rather than organic dye filters to separate colour. This gives it an unusual colour response that varies model to model and raw converter to raw converter (and even camera to camera) as Sigma try and find the balance that suits people. I have found with my cameras, it is best to use trial and error to find the set of adjustments that suits me and save them as a preset.

The Foveon doesn't use an AA filter. This contributes to its unusual pixel level sharpness at the cost of occasional luminance aliasing artifacts in the form of jaggies mainly. Soft lenses, diffraction, slight camera shake etc will all reduce or remove these in much the same way as they do with medium format backs but it is something to be aware of (occasionally). The extra resolution of the SD1 should help a great deal.

Noise has been a problem in the past. The new sensor is reportedly dramatically improved. I'll wait and see on that.

Past Sigma bodies have been interesting. The SD1 looks like a big step up market but a big price hike that goes with it. For the sort of money they have been hinting (7D pricing), you will probably get the best Sigma body yet but no where near normal feature sets (no dust shaker, no live view, no video, no in body anti shake, modest AF, no top plate LCD, low FPS, slowish buffering and modest buffer size). You will get a metal body, AF micro adjustment, weather seals and two new style command wheels and a somewhat better rear LCD than the older bodies :). The bodies have always had good grips and feel reasonable to hold.

Sigma pricing has always been optimistically high at intro as they milk the Foveon fundies but then drops catastrophically after a few months. Things might be different with the SD1, who can say.
 

emr

Member
davemillier, that's an excellent post from someone with experience. Thanks. I have never even touched a Foveon camera, but find the different sensor technology very interesting.

BTW, if somebody isn't familiar with the Foveon vs. Bayer sensor difference (like I was just recently), here's a nice explanation:

http://www.digiphoto.org.uk/sensors.htm
 

OlliL

Member
I'm also a big fan of the X3 sensor.
I tried it twice (DP1 and DP1s), but didn't keep them.

Definitely not because of the IQ, but they are just too slow.

Hope that Sigma comes through with a fast DP-camera sometimes in the near future.

The SD1 sounds great so far and I'm looking forward how it stacks up, when it becomes available.
 

retow

Member
Sigma just announced prices : USD 9700 for the US market. Some serious money. And I had hoped the SD1 sensor would find its way into a super compact DP3 or so. Ok, time to wake up from my dream:(
 

Kofronj

New member
This was about 5X was I was expecting (and I have a SD10, SD14, and SD15). A whole lot of people are going to be really disappointed. Me included. I wasn't buying until it hit $2000.
 

roanjoh

New member
LOL! Not laughing so much about the price - but the reaction on other forums/blogs dedicated to the Sigma company.
 

Corlan F.

Subscriber Member
Nice price :D

I'm on the phone with the Sigma rep while typing this, they did not receive the info but he went trough the rough when i told him to look today's web news. He says "wait"...

If it's confirmed it's simply a crazy move from Sigma, for an APS-C with rudimentary functionnalities and no other bodies in sight for the line.
 

bensonga

Well-known member
JMO re pricing.....they sure missed the mark on this one, by a wide margin. I think Pentax has a much more competitve pricing strategy with their $10k 645D.

I was hoping to use the SD1 with my Leica R lenses.....not at this price.

Gary
 

Kphelan

Member
So they DID come in at the price of a Canon 7D! (ummm, plus the price of a Nikon D3x....)

Sigma just announced prices : USD 9700 for the US market. Some serious money. And I had hoped the SD1 sensor would find its way into a super compact DP3 or so. Ok, time to wake up from my dream:(
 

roanjoh

New member
So they DID come in at the price of a Canon 7D! (ummm, plus the price of a Nikon D3x....)
.......no, they forgot to mention that its 7 x 7D! :)

Although,

.......... this could be a marketing ploy where you you get the base riled up and the forums talking - then you say, OOOPPSS, big mistake, it's actually $1900!

...........I can only wish.
 
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