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Thread: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

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    Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Here'a video from the Australian PMA show demonstrating the latest M-lens camera module prototype ... It's looking very well finished now:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln91Hk_gccE

    It's rumored to support focus confirmation. Someone on DPR mentioned the possibility of a rangefinder follow-cam for focus confirmation to the electronics of the camera. If that is included in the design, this will be the most sophisticated M lens adaptation to the digital camera world yet.

    (I don't expect it, doesn't look to me like there's room in the housing for the cam follower mechanism, but ya never know until they ship ... :-)

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    I guess the big item will be the price and I wonder about keeping the dust away from the sensor.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Dealers have told me they expect $800-1200, no finer resolution than that as yet. Presuming it performs as well as the other A12 units, it will be worth it.

    The video showed the camera fitted with Ultron 28mm f/2 lens. This looks to be an almost ideal combination for me ... I'll fit an optical viewfinder or the EVF and it will be beautiful to use.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    I guess that using a similar method to the newly announced Sony "peaking" focus confirm would be nice? The module plus camera makes a good looking package.

    Keith

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    I guess that using a similar method to the newly announced Sony "peaking" focus confirm would be nice? The module plus camera makes a good looking package.
    Does look nice, doesn't it? :-)

    I've used cameras (video cameras) with peaking focus aids. They can be useful, but I always want a fast toggle switch to disable the focus aid so I can frame and follow my subject properly.

    I really don't like any focus aids (peaking, confirmation signals, split image rangefinder prisms on SLR view screens, etc) all that much: I find all of them distracting at some point or another. The Leica type coincident opto-mechanical rangefinder and a contrasty, plain focusing screen, with a magnifier, have always been the least annoying and best performing focusing systems for me.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Is that $800-$1200 for the M unit or for the M unit with GXR body? I see the EVF is about $220 at popflash.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Is that $800-$1200 for the M unit or for the M unit with GXR body? I see the EVF is about $220 at popflash.
    My understanding is that price is the estimated range for the M-lens expansion module. Remember, it's an estimate at this point in time, and the $400 delta is larger than the price of the body... The GXR body/control unit is $350.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Would you know if this M-module will be using the same leaf-shutter design as the A12 modules? The 1/1000th top shutter speed would be quite limiting for fast M lenses, unless you don't mind using ND filters. I really hope that they're incorporating a focal plane shutter in this M-module, so that 1/4000th is available.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen_Coors View Post
    Would you know if this M-module will be using the same leaf-shutter design as the A12 modules? The 1/1000th top shutter speed would be quite limiting for fast M lenses, unless you don't mind using ND filters. I really hope that they're incorporating a focal plane shutter in this M-module, so that 1/4000th is available.
    According to the press release published on DPR and their own website, the M-lens expansion module will have "a newly developed focal plane shutter".

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/1102/11...icohmmount.asp

    No further specs available as yet.

    You couldn't use a leaf shutter with Leica M-bayonet lenses. Leaf shutters generally have to embedded in the lens design, not placed behind the lens, due to leaf shutter size constraints. Only a few behind the lens, interchangeable lens leaf shutter cameras have been developed and none were particularly successful.

    (BTW, the A12 28 and 50 camera modules support up to 1/2000 second exposure time.)

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Thank you, for the link! I had not seen that, yet. That's very good news! I just started my research tonight. I read Steve Huffs review of the GXR and both A12 lens-modules. I'm fairly certain that he wrote that these both have max 1/1000th sec. shutter speeds, and that's what prompted me to ask questions on this thread about the M-module. My interest in the GXR is solely because of reading of the M-module, here, and seeing the image quality from the A12s APS-C sensor on the many reviews that I've read already.
    As for the leaf-shutter being in the lens comment, I think that you're referring to Copal-shutters. I've owned, and used, many interchangeable lens cameras, read Argus rangefinders C2, C3, C4r, C44r, etc., as well as others, that use a leaf-shutter in the camera's body (behind the removable lens. The lens would have its own iris/aperture and this arrangement worked just fine, too. Top shutter speed in my old C2 was 1/250th sec., if I remember correctly and 1/300th for the C3.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen_Coors View Post
    Thank you, for the link! I had not seen that, yet. That's very good news! I just started my research tonight. I read Steve Huffs review of the GXR and both A12 lens-modules. I'm fairly certain that he wrote that these both have max 1/1000th sec. shutter speeds, and that's what prompted me to ask questions on this thread about the M-module. My interest in the GXR is solely because of reading of the M-module, here, and seeing the image quality from the A12s APS-C sensor on the many reviews that I've read already.
    As for the leaf-shutter being in the lens comment, I think that you're referring to Copal-shutters. I've owned, and used, many interchangeable lens cameras, read Argus rangefinders C2, C3, C4r, C44r, etc., as well as others, that use a leaf-shutter in the camera's body (behind the removable lens. The lens would have its own iris/aperture and this arrangement worked just fine, too. Top shutter speed in my old C2 was 1/250th sec., if I remember correctly and 1/300th for the C3.
    Steve just made a mistake. I have both A12 modules and they both sopprt 1/2000 sec.

    How did I know that someone would mention the Argus C series? :-) My mother gave me her C3 in 1968, and I marveled that the lens was interchangeable but I never did get my hands on any of the other lenses. Yes, it had a 1/300 second min shutter time. I recall my Kodak Retina also had a leaf shutter and the front lens elements interchanged as well.

    Those cameras, and others like them, did work well, but the lenses were relatively slow and the shutters were limited in timingb range (as you point out). That was a long time ago too. No modern interchangeable lens camera design with a leaf shutter behind the lens has been introduced since the 1960s that I'm aware of.

    I'm eagerly awaiting the M-lens camera expansion module. The GXR has proven to be a delight and it will only get better, for me, with a couple of fully manual lens options.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    More pics - via onlinephotographer

    http://www.grblog.jp/

    Keith

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Does look nice, doesn't it? :-)

    I've used cameras (video cameras) with peaking focus aids. They can be useful, but I always want a fast toggle switch to disable the focus aid so I can frame and follow my subject properly.

    I really don't like any focus aids (peaking, confirmation signals, split image rangefinder prisms on SLR view screens, etc) all that much: I find all of them distracting at some point or another. The Leica type coincident opto-mechanical rangefinder and a contrasty, plain focusing screen, with a magnifier, have always been the least annoying and best performing focusing systems for me.
    Boy, I disagree. I've been anticipating the arrival of this M module, but, now that I've been using focus peaking with NEX for a few weeks, I don't think I'll use another EVF/LCD camera for my M glass without this feature. It makes quick, manual focusing diabolically easy. Hopefully, Ricoh follows suit.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Boy, I disagree. I've been anticipating the arrival of this M module, but, now that I've been using focus peaking with NEX for a few weeks, I don't think I'll use another EVF/LCD camera for my M glass without this feature. It makes quick, manual focusing diabolically easy. Hopefully, Ricoh follows suit.
    I've been tempted to buy a NEX just to see how that focus peaking worked. May do that even before the M-mount comes out - but it will be interesting to see how Ricoh does the focus assist.

    Keith

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    I've been tempted to buy a NEX just to see how that focus peaking worked. May do that even before the M-mount comes out - but it will be interesting to see how Ricoh does the focus assist.

    Keith
    Yeah, although the focus magnification on NEX and various other cameras works well, it is still slow. I'm nearly as fast with focus peaking as I am with a rangefinder, although, I admit it's taken quite a bit of practice to nail down accuracy.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    Focus peaking has worked amazingly well for me, although there are a couple of situations where it doesn't...if there are no 'edges' or a lack of contrast.

    In practice I'm probably faster at focusing with focus peak than when using an RF, other than on a screw mount Leica which has a 1.5x focus magnification. Adding an OKARO or ORAKO for contrast helps a lot too. When using an M mount Leica I need an add-on magnifier, which ends up compromising the framing.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M-lens module getting closer

    I guess it's yet another case of "different strokes."

    I can snap in focus using the LCD and manual focus on my E-5 with any normal or longer lens very quickly and easily, no magnification required. Short lenses I need some magnification but are otherwise very quick as well. The same went for using the Panasonic G1 using any lens and the EVF, even without using focus magnification (although again critical focus with short focal lengths at wide open apertures makes magnification very helpful).

    I could do the same on the GXR's LCD or EVF but for the only real negative I've found with the camera: focus servo responsiveness and precision for manual operation is lacking in the A12 28 and 50 mm camera units. It's hard to move the focus precisely and stop immediately ... spot AF and toggle to MF for critical focus works better.

    The GXR's M-lens module will solve this issue completely by giving me access to manual focus lenses: no servos between me and the focus helicoid. If it also has a good focus confirmation system, focus peaking or even an accurate confirmation light on the Spot AF indicated region, that will be useful in certain circumstances. As long as I can turn it off when I don't want the distraction in my field of view. :-)

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