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Thread: New gig, four thirds micro

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    New gig, four thirds micro

    Olympus and Panasonic launched Micro Four Thirds today



    http://www.four-thirds.org/en/microft/index.html

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08...fourthirds.asp

    Micro Four Thirds facts and features

    * Same Four Thirds sensor size (18 x 13.5 mm)
    * Flange back distance half that of Four Thirds (20 versus 40 mm)
    * Lens mount diameter 6 mm smaller (44 versus 50 mm)
    * Contrast Detect AF is implied (passive would require an external sensor)
    * Lens to body electrical contact points up to 11 from 9
    * Lenses of same focal length and maximum aperture considerably smaller than Four Thirds
    * Enables slim and compact lens-interchangeable digital cameras
    * Lack of mirror well necessitate a high quality EVF (or an EVF/Viewfinder-less design)
    * Current Four Thirds lenses can be used with an adapter
    * Enables seamless switching between still and movie shooting

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Let's see what they do with the lenses, that is where they could make or break this thing. If they make slightly smaller kit lens zooms then it won't be that interesting, if they make tiny pancakes then I'm first in line! Could really put the new 12 megapixel P&S's into shade, take a 420, make it half the width and lop off the viewfinder, that's a very small package with a sensor that will kill P&S's!
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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    yes
    IQ wise, potentially the death of small sensor compacts
    i wonder if they will hit on superzooms too

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Hi There
    Thanks for the link Riley
    Ben - this won't kill point and shoots - if the viewfinder is good enough, then it'll clean up on rangefinders and small slr cameras as well, but it will certainly destroy the 'bridge camera' market as it stands.

    They've already proved that 4/3 is the business with respect to lens quality (it's still my major grouch with the D700, that decent lenses are huge, and small lenses aren't decent).

    To be honest, I don't think this is really competition for p&s cameras - most of the target audience don't care a great deal about image quality (or more and more MP counts on smaller sensors wouldn't be happening). Last time I looked, the equivalent pixel density on a 4/3 sensor of the last crop of p&s equated to something like 48mp.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    this is the adapter
    11 pin connection v/s 9 pin for 4/3rds


    more stuff
    http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/ds...8/05/8979.html

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Jono, wasn't me who said that it would kill p&s's, that would be silly as that market belongs to the p&s crowd who couldn't care less. If the lenses are small enough it might well be serious competition to the 13 megapixel 'pro' p&s bodies and of course kill the bridge cameras if any still exist these days.
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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    On the point and shoot side it is direct competition to a DP1. On the bridge side there are a lot of birders who love the long reach superzooms so it will be all about lens design ((I'm talking FZ50, Vlux, Fuji models off of "bigger" small sensors. The 15x and 18x designs would be hard to replicate). Give me a couple of Voigtlander size lenses with a tilt and swivel LCD and I'm a happy camper!

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Given that this will have less in it than the E-420 which sells pretty cheaply anyway (~$450)and we will assume that Oly will make money on the lenses - The Sigma DP1 is as good as dead. Especially at that price.
    Last edited by Ben Rubinstein; 5th August 2008 at 03:35.
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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Jono, wasn't me who said that it would kill p&s's, that would be silly as that market belongs to the p&s crowd who couldn't care less. If the lenses are small enough it might well be serious competition to the 13 megapixel 'pro' p&s bodies and of course kill the bridge cameras if any still exist these days.
    Sorry Ben
    Quite agree - it's the bridge cameras that should worry.
    Terry - I've just been discussing the 'birder' issue - there really is no reason why they can't make very long zoom lenses in very small packages (image circle is easier to deal with on longer lenses). On the other hand I would question how they'll manage with wide angle.

    The other thing that springs to mind is Leica - we've always been assured of a big surprise in photokina - what price a nice metal body with a couple of panaleica lenses to go with it?
    You are effectively talking a digilux 2, with interchangeable lenses and a sensor twice the size . . . .. . .

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Some tiny pancake panoleica lenses for a oly mini 4/3 camera with a swivel screen at around G9 size - I think I've died and gone to heaven!
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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Sorry Ben
    Quite agree - it's the bridge cameras that should worry.
    Terry - I've just been discussing the 'birder' issue - there really is no reason why they can't make very long zoom lenses in very small packages (image circle is easier to deal with on longer lenses). On the other hand I would question how they'll manage with wide angle.

    The other thing that springs to mind is Leica - we've always been assured of a big surprise in photokina - what price a nice metal body with a couple of panaleica lenses to go with it?
    You are effectively talking a digilux 2, with interchangeable lenses and a sensor twice the size . . . .. . .
    Jono,
    If you read the Panny forum at DPReview, the birders don't care about wide angle. The longer the teleconverters the better!

    For me this is great news. The Digilux2 was my enter back into photography!

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Some tiny pancake panoleica lenses for a oly mini 4/3 camera with a swivel screen at around G9 size - I think I've died and gone to heaven!
    Clearly it's the new Leica 'CL' - panaleica lenses (we know how good they can be), nice metal body, as you say, around G9 sized, with a pocketable telephoto zoom as well.

    I'm in the queue!

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    This is very interesting news, and while I'm less than impressed by electronic viewfinders in general, I can't wait to try one of these out, particularly for travel. Hopefully, there will be weather sealed bodies and lenses as well.

    I wonder if it would be possible for Leica to use this lens mount for a camera with an optical viewfinder and an electronic rangefinder? In any case, I hope that Leica will grab this opportunity to modify some of their existing M-mount lenses to the new mount. That would really give this system a flying start.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Jono,
    If you read the Panny forum at DPReview, the birders don't care about wide angle. The longer the teleconverters the better!

    For me this is great news. The Digilux2 was my enter back into photography!
    Okay, but I care about wide angle (and so do you!)

    More I think about it, the more I'm sure that this is going to be the core of the new Leica announcement - they would have to be completely mad not to be on the bandwagon for this.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Okay, but I care about wide angle (and so do you!)

    More I think about it, the more I'm sure that this is going to be the core of the new Leica announcement - they would have to be completely mad not to be on the bandwagon for this.
    I agree! But I still think there will be a cheaper rangefinder that uses current M lenses

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I agree! But I still think there will be a cheaper rangefinder that uses current M lenses
    Really? are you sure it won't be this with an adaptor?

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Better have a darn good LCD as it will be the only way to focus and to do it on an EVF seems hard. Not sure how the D700 focus confirm actually works but if you got arrows/dots might be OK.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Better have a darn good LCD as it will be the only way to focus and to do it on an EVF seems hard. Not sure how the D700 focus confirm actually works but if you got arrows/dots might be OK.
    Well, maybe a little lateral thinking would manage an answer - but focus confirmation would be the obvious thing. I must say, focusing in live view on the D700 seems to work pretty easily. (and of course, you can zoom in when it's critical). I don't see why you couldn't have a couple optical viewfinder either - after all, for most lenses the information will be being passed back to the camera (and could be with coded leica lenses too).

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, maybe a little lateral thinking would manage an answer - but focus confirmation would be the obvious thing. I must say, focusing in live view on the D700 seems to work pretty easily. (and of course, you can zoom in when it's critical). I don't see why you couldn't have a couple optical viewfinder either - after all, for most lenses the information will be being passed back to the camera (and could be with coded leica lenses too).
    You are very correct. My post was not meant to be negative but sounded that way.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Can we also dream about silent or very quiet shutter?

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    With no mirror and a small shutter for that small sensor it's certainly going to be quiet!

    Of course I assume it will have a hot shoe so no problem using accessory viewfinders. Hope they include a hyperfocal focus setting!

    What I really hope is that they design it as a rangefinder/p&s and not as a DSLR, hyperfocal setting and a decent auto iso is far more important to me than 5fps!

    Jono, will I really be annoying you if I say that my father will be going on a lecture tour of the states after September so methinks I'll have one in hand first?
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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Droooooooooooool!!!!!
    This could be so sweet; raising the bar on IQ, Versatility and Size equation!

    As to killing Bridgecam, perhaps, however the new cams will still be as vulnerable to dust when one changes lenses; which is just one reason for the Bridges...
    Bridges lately also have not been that compact, they are seen as an all-in-one-solution not so much as compact cameras.
    I suspect the EVIL and the Bridge will appeal to different needs.
    Last edited by Lili; 5th August 2008 at 06:32.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    I'd love to see a nice rangefinder using this lens standard - just give me an optical viewfinder as well. Sensor quality on 4/3 format is of course critical for demanding use, but I understand it is decent today and will get better over time. This is an interesting development.
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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Hi All,

    This is really exciting news, the possibility to have a very compact system with significantly better image quality and fast primes is most compelling. A new market and a new alternative.

    I wonder when we will see the fruits of this?

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    It will be interesting to see the lens line-up from Olympus and Leica for this new format. I don’t know how they are going to design the wide-angle lenses since the new format has the same sensor dimensions as the original 4/3 format but the flange distance is cut by 50%. The original 4/3 is about having light path arriving at a somewhat perpendicular angle to the sensor surface. How would that be achieved with a shorter flange back distance? Unless the sensor technology has advanced to the point where new sensors can accept light path coming at a steep angle.

    Kind regards,

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
    It will be interesting to see the lens line-up from Olympus and Leica for this new format. I donít know how they are going to design the wide-angle lenses since the new format has the same sensor dimensions as the original 4/3 format but the flange distance is cut by 50%. The original 4/3 is about having light path arriving at a somewhat perpendicular angle to the sensor surface. How would that be achieved with a shorter flange back distance? Unless the sensor technology has advanced to the point where new sensors can accept light path coming at a steep angle.

    Kind regards,
    Hi there

    Well parallel is parallel! So if all the stuff about telecentricity is to be believed then it doesn't matter about the flange distance

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Flange distance will matter if a lens design is used where the rear element is closer to the image plane thus increasing the largest angle of the light path hitting the image surface. Leica's solution for its M8 (which was necessary to keep compatibility with older non-retrofocus lens designs) was to add a microprism layer in front of the sensor. Micro-4/3 lenses will be designed to avoid such problems - retrofocus designs will be used for wideangle lenses rather than more symmetrical lenses like classic wideangle lenses.

    For a good example of an extreme retrofocus design, se Schneider Digitar 2.8/28 - even though the focal length is 28 mm, the flange focal distance is 70 mm. http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecomm...=1325&IID=1920
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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Flange distance will matter if a lens design is used where the rear element is closer to the image plane thus increasing the largest angle of the light path hitting the image surface. Leica's solution for its M8 (which was necessary to keep compatibility with older non-retrofocus lens designs) was to add a microprism layer in front of the sensor. Micro-4/3 lenses will be designed to avoid such problems - retrofocus designs will be used for wideangle lenses rather than more symmetrical lenses like classic wideangle lenses.

    For a good example of an extreme retrofocus design, se Schneider Digitar 2.8/28 - even though the focal length is 28 mm, the flange focal distance is 70 mm. http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecomm...=1325&IID=1920
    Hi Lars
    I obviously didn't get the point across - the whole philosophy of 4/3 is to have true telecentricity (it is actually why Olympus have made nothing faster than f2 for 4/3 - those who HAVE are almost certainly breaking the telecentriclty rules).

    The point is that the light out of the rear element is parallel - and, as I said, parallel IS parallel - however close to the rear element you put the sensor it's STILL going to be parallel. It also explains why current Zuiko designs for 4/3 are such good corner and edge performers (and they really are good - MUCH better than anything that Nikon has to offer (at least for the zooms))

    As far as I can see Olympus is really the only company who can just do this (i.e. change the distance from the rear element to the sensor). I would definitely envisage difficulties with lenses made by others in the 4/3 consortium (notably pana-leica and sigma) who have clearly flouted the telecentricity rules. As for Nikon or Canon - I don't think it would be possible for them to follow along (at least for existing lenses) We'll see!

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Jono thats an excellent synopsis

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Jono,
    Got it I stand corrected.
    Lars
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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Jono,
    Got it I stand corrected.
    Lars
    Thank you . . . . but, like most things it isn't quite that simple. There are quite a lot of examples of Olympus using the words 'near telecentric'.

    But I'm assuming that the principle is what makes this possible - and also why it will be tricky for others to follow (at least with existing lenses).

    Personally I hate LCD and EVF viewfinders, so I'm hoping that Leica find a way to do it better (I can at least dream about a rangefinder type viewfinder with accurate lines for different lenses).

    I think the point about this is that it's a small chink of light coming in from what could be a very big world . . . . we haven't even mentioned video!

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    While it pains me Jono to agree with you - and it pains me a lot - I think your analysis is correct.
    SlŠinte

    Robert.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    While it pains me Jono to agree with you - and it pains me a lot - I think your analysis is correct.
    You old bugger - I often agree with you, and I've always thought you were a lovely bloke too. And then this . . .

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    You old bugger
    Not so much of the old, young man
    SlŠinte

    Robert.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Not so much of the old, young man
    oops, sorry

    you bugger

    is that better?

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    The 4/3 format is roughly half 35mm size. However, half-frame cameras such as the Olympus Pen series were only about 2/3 the size of full frame 35 mm cameras - excepting of course the Olympus XA series and the Minox 35mm series. This new 4/3 micro seems to lend itself to rangefinder or direct vision cameras with interchangable lenses, yet I don't think that they will be half the size of present DSLRS or even half the size of a Leica M8.

    The telecentric lens design is predicated by the general design of sensors, though clever arrangement of micro lenses can negate this to some extent - makers such as Nikon have stuck with a throat opening designed in the 1950s, when the problems with non-parallel lens design and ultra-wide angles where unthought of, and so need to look for an alternative if they are to keep compatability with older cameras and lenses - telecentric lenses need a fairly large lens throat - so Nikon are to some extent prisoners of their own unwillingness to change - and you might say that their lenses etc are triumphs of design over common sense. I'm not an Olympus owner, but I appreciate the concept behind starting from a blank sheet of paper when it comes to integrating lens and sensor design - no other DSLR maker has done this, and it is arguable that they are in part lumbered with yesterdays technology.

    Olympus seem nowadays to have largely overcome the noise problem associated with their relatively small sensors - and lenses for this new design ought to be considerably smaller than the retrofoucs designs for DSLRs - just compare the enormous sizes of lenses for the average DSLR to those of comparable focal length for a rangefinder - I don't see any advantage in largeness in lenses just for its own sake [unless you want to make a priapatic statement ]

    However, the viewfinder for any presumptive rangefinder camera looks like being a weak area at present; electronic viewfinders have a rather coarse pattern, and 'chimping' has its own disadvantages. Any optical viewfinder must allow for variable focal lengths, and yet be big enough to satisy today's users - the mini viewfinders of the Olympus XA or Minox 35mm are no longer acceptable.
    SlŠinte

    Robert.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    oops is that better?
    Like this, yes
    SlŠinte

    Robert.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    The 4/3 format is roughly half 35mm size. However, half-frame cameras such as the Olympus Pen series were only about 2/3 the size of full frame 35 mm cameras - excepting of course the Olympus XA series and the Minox 35mm series. This new 4/3 micro seems to lend itself to rangefinder or direct vision cameras with interchangable lenses, yet I don't think that they will be half the size of present DSLRS or even half the size of a Leica M8.
    Well, I guess it depends whether one is speaking of volume or length, but I do agree in principle - still, I'd estimate that they should be able to make a body around the size of the Canon G9 (which must be about 2/3 the size of the Olympus E420).
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    The telecentric lens design is predicated by the general design of sensors,
    I think I quite disagree with this - telecentric design is about getting the light out of the rear of the lens parallel . . nothing to do with the sensor except that sensor design is much easier if you assume telecentricity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    though clever arrangement of micro lenses can negate this to some extent - makers such as Nikon have stuck with a throat opening designed in the 1950s, when the problems with non-parallel lens design and ultra-wide angles where unthought of, and so need to look for an alternative if they are to keep compatability with older cameras and lenses - telecentric lenses need a fairly large lens throat - so Nikon are to some extent prisoners of their own unwillingness to change - and you might say that their lenses etc are triumphs of design over common sense.
    Quite agree - I think this is where Olympus have it right, and why it may be difficult for others to follow

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    I'm not an Olympus owner, but I appreciate the concept behind starting from a blank sheet of paper when it comes to integrating lens and sensor design - no other DSLR maker has done this, and it is arguable that they are in part lumbered with yesterdays technology.
    I think so, and if this is a success . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Olympus seem nowadays to have largely overcome the noise problem associated with their relatively small sensors - and lenses for this new design ought to be considerably smaller than the retrofoucs designs for DSLRs - just compare the enormous sizes of lenses for the average DSLR to those of comparable focal length for a rangefinder - I don't see any advantage in largeness in lenses just for its own sake [unless you want to make a priapatic statement ]
    Only OLD buggers would do that

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    However, the viewfinder for any presumptive rangefinder camera looks like being a weak area at present; electronic viewfinders have a rather coarse pattern, and 'chimping' has its own disadvantages. Any optical viewfinder must allow for variable focal lengths, and yet be big enough to satisy today's users - the mini viewfinders of the Olympus XA or Minox 35mm are no longer acceptable.
    Again, I quite agree, although it is possible to make good screens (witness the Nikon D3/D700). I'd be surprised if Olympus or Panasonic bothered much beyond offering a hot shoe and a good quality LCD. Seems this might be a point for Leica to make a real hit.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    I think I quite disagree with this - telecentric design is about getting the light out of the rear of the lens parallel . . nothing to do with the sensor except that sensor design is much easier if you assume telecentricity.
    I don't think we are disagreeing: non-telecentric design needs micro-lenses or equivalent to avoid purple fringing from photon overspill; but this problem can be overcome. Telecentric design - though I gather this is relative rather than abolute - simplifies the overall design of sensors and micro-lenses and surely simpler is better [and cheaper?]. Alternatively, complex engineering solutions [micro lenses] can more or less overcome inherent deficiencies [non telecentric lenses, small throats].

    Anyone else brave enough to start from scratch?
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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    I don't think we are disagreeing: non-telecentric design needs micro-lenses or equivalent to avoid purple fringing from photon overspill; but this problem can be overcome.
    It can . . . but I'm not sure that the IR problem can be overcome so easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Telecentric design - though I gather this is relative rather than abolute - simplifies the overall design of sensors and micro-lenses and surely simpler is better [and cheaper?]. Alternatively, complex engineering solutions [micro lenses] can more or less overcome inherent deficiencies [non telecentric lenses, small throats].

    Anyone else brave enough to start from scratch?
    Well, we certainly agree that simpler is better - it would appear that Olympus was brave 5 or so years ago when they announced 4/3. Let's hope they are going to reap the benefit of it by producing something that it's hard for others to follow. . . . and let's hope that Leica realise what a big part they can play in this, both in terms of lenses and high quality bodies.

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    telecentricity...

    Such a lot of misinformation is shared about telecentricity. First of all, modern rangefinder lenses are far from symmetric. Consider the pair of rangefinder wideangles below. The 1960-ish Canon 19/3.5 on the left extends 19mm in back of the mount, and only 12 mm in front of it. The front element is more than twice the size of the rear element, but at least the exit pupil must be behind the mount frame. The 2000+ Zeiss 21/2.8 on the right extends only 12 mm behind the mount frame, but extends about 50 mm out in front. As a wild guess, the exit pupil might be 30-40 mm away from the image plane. (it takes an optical bench to find out these things; they don't seem to publish the information.) All of the currently manufactured Leica M lenses are similarly much longer than their focal lengths, at least up to 35mm focal lengths and probably beyond as well. The extra length is being used to accomplish the degree of correction now offered.

    I think it was corrected far above in this thread, but light rays coming from a lens cannot all be parallel. No focused image would result.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    I'd love to see a nice rangefinder using this lens standard - just give me an optical viewfinder as well. Sensor quality on 4/3 format is of course critical for demanding use, but I understand it is decent today and will get better over time. This is an interesting development.
    A shoe mount viewfinder could be added at little cost. The issue becomes framing if you use a zoom lens. Not knowing how many shoe contacts there are on a μ-4/3 body but if the lens mount has two extra contacts, could be transmitting focal length data for use in an electronically linked optical viewfinder. Such coolness would probably be a Leica-class add-on goody.

    I for one will look at the Leica version.
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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    A shoe mount viewfinder could be added at little cost. The issue becomes framing if you use a zoom lens. Not knowing how many shoe contacts there are on a μ-4/3 body but if the lens mount has two extra contacts, could be transmitting focal length data for use in an electronically linked optical viewfinder. Such coolness would probably be a Leica-class add-on goody.

    I for one will look at the Leica version.
    I have to say I prefer a (good) built-in viewfinder to an external one. The whole idea of a compact system fails a bit if you have to attach a viewfinder. And I prefer an optical viewfinder to an EVF (still getting by without reading glasses but it's only a matter of time).

    Sure I too look forward to seeing where Leica goes with this u43 standard. But what is the likelihood of an affordable Leica system? I think more interesting is that u43 is an open standard where multiple vendors can market lenses as well as bodies.
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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    There is a good article "Dave's Analysis" on imaging-resource. I can't cut and paste a link but will type it out for you... If it doesn't work just google micro four thirds and you will find it. He specifically deals with the telecentricity issue

    www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1217960634.html

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Open standard? Don't think so.
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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    http://www.digitalcamera.jp/

    if your Japanese is rusty look here
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...hread=28876616
    1. According to CIPA's 2007 figures, number of digital camera sales was 100.37 million. Only 7.47 million DSLRs.
    2. There is a need for a "more active" proposal for DSLR.

    3. The three concepts of 4/3 - 100% Digital, High mobility, Open Standard

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    I hope that this interesting concept of a smaller, thinner camera includes some type of VIEWFINDER!!! The thought of using a camera like this thru Live View only is not very appealing to me. I still find it unnatural to hold a camera out in front of me to see the image, compose, and make the image.
    Using some of the larger, current 4/3 lenses in this awkward position seems unrealistic at best, and unwieldy at worst.

    Just my opinion.


    Martin

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    Not necessarily 'in front' if the LCD panel is articulated, and allows to use a camera at waist level. This makes it rather natural, easy to compare composed picture with reality, and allows more discreet photography (very important in some countries!). Having said that nothing prevents designers from including a viewfinder - this is what the outline in dpreview seems to be showing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
    I hope that this interesting concept of a smaller, thinner camera includes some type of VIEWFINDER!!! The thought of using a camera like this thru Live View only is not very appealing to me. I still find it unnatural to hold a camera out in front of me to see the image, compose, and make the image.
    ...

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    How open a standard is Four Thirds actually, can anyone join, or what does it take to become a member ?
    I have always wondered why Zeiss doesn't participate with Four Thirds lenses.

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    Re: New gig, four thirds micro

    I believe anyone can participate, but don't to what degree they have to follow the concept with regards to lenses being telecentric etc. While the lenses from Olympus and Panaleica are all designed for the concept, Sigma's are just lenses from their standard lineup with a new lens mount.

    There are also suppliers that have signed up, but not yet participated. Fuji is one. It would be interesting to see a 4/3 camera and some Fujinon lenses from them. A Micro 4/3 camera should be well suited to replace their long sequence of bridge cameras.

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