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Thread: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

  1. #101
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Our first Real tests today in Gilroy.







    here maybe a GXR with the A12 mount in my future. If I would also the get P10 module as a P&S companion.

    Still more images here:

    http://outbackphoto.smugmug.com/DOPF...-GXR-M-Module/
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Nice! Now I'm even more excited. I went through the slideshow too ... :-)

    What lenses were used for these?

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    These shots used the Summicron 50mm f/2.0 and Elmarit 28mm f/2.8.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Thanks for showing these to us Uwe

    Keith

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    Thanks for showing these to us Uwe

    Keith
    You are welcome. You have the P10 module? If I may get the A12 Mount Module I also may get the P10 as a P&S option. Good idea?
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    It's a fine idea, Uwe. I think I have been using the P10 almost exclusively on my GXR this past year even though I have the A12 50. The P10 fits the kind of stuff that I've been doing.

    Now I've got the A12 28 as well, the P10 is almost taking a back seat. But, in a few weeks I get the M-mount, then what will I do? The GXR sure keeps you busy - but that's good

    Keith

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    It's a fine idea, Uwe. I think I have been using the P10 almost exclusively on my GXR this past year even though I have the A12 50. The P10 fits the kind of stuff that I've been doing.

    Now I've got the A12 28 as well, the P10 is almost taking a back seat. But, in a few weeks I get the M-mount, then what will I do? The GXR sure keeps you busy - but that's good

    Keith
    How is the P10 AF. Had some issues with the S10 module in low contrast.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    How is the P10 AF. Had some issues with the S10 module in low contrast.
    Uwe - I've had no problems with it. No better or worse than my M4/3 in daily shooting. Most of my stuff in the image thread is taken with this module.

    Keith

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    I don't care about the color profiles in the DNG files but my own Colorchecker Passport profile is quite ok for my taste:



    The colors are intentionally strong.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    I start to like the M-Module because:

    - You select the lens and there are many good ones possible
    - No AA filter is great
    - Compact

    Open issues:

    - If you want real WA or even UWA this will be a problem, not for me though

    Now waiting for the EVF to start really using this interesting camera.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    I start to like the M-Module because:

    - You select the lens and there are many good ones possible
    - No AA filter is great
    - Compact

    Open issues:

    - If you want real WA or even UWA this will be a problem, not for me though

    Now waiting for the EVF to start really using this interesting camera.
    I'm not sure that wide angle is all that much a problem for me. The A12 28mm camera unit is an 18mm focal length and that's plenty wide for my uses. I've got a Skopar 21mm coming ... that was always one of my favorite focal lengths on this format with Pentax gear ... and if I want very very wide, I'll buy the CV 12mm f/5.6. That's about as wide as I've ever found particularly useful.

    The GXR and a set of camera units is more like having a collection of different compact cameras, not a body with interchangeable lenses. Each camera unit creates a camera with its own character. The A12 Camera Mount opens the system up to a lot of different capabilities.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    You made my day. Thats it!

    Great stuff Uwe. I was pretty sure that Ricoh wouldn't have made it too difficult to do this because from what I have seen so far they have put a lot of features in the GRX firmware that make the camera a "photographer's camera".

    Following all this with interest and can't wait to get my hands on the A12 mount.
    David Anderson

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Uwe, this video shows how to set up the GXR A12 Camera Mount focus assist and magnification. I think you have it sussed out by now ... but it's good to see where on the menus the options live for others:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc_Y4KcBYpM

    The presenter isn't speaking English, but the video is instructive for me nonetheless.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Another GXR+A12 Camera Mount review, this one with full size images.

    http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/r...29_473694.html

    It's in Japanese, but http://translate.google.com does a fairly understandable job of translating it.

    I found this little bit at the end encouraging too:

    "... Let us finally touch the shutter sound. GXR MOUNT A12 focal plane shutter of the cotton and it sounds neat. Existing equipment has a large mirror-less shutter sound for one's body size, there are many scenes in the city feel intimidated in a snap. GXR MOUNT A12 shutter sound is gentle on the ears that point, easy to use as a snap shooter."
    Rubberized cloth focal plane shutter? Should be quieter in operation than NEX and Micro-FourThirds metal shutters.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Not wanting to divert attention from Uwe's work, but here is a Japanese "report" of the M-module and a handful of various lenses. I use Google Translate, for translation: http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/r...29_473694.html

    :sleep006:Godfrey, Sorry I didn't see that you already posted link to this. Amazing images showing sharpness completely across frame with wide-RF lenses. I truly doubt that Sony's Nex-7 will give like performance with wide-RF lenses.
    Last edited by Owen_Coors; 28th August 2011 at 13:15. Reason: To fix

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen_Coors View Post
    ...Sorry I didn't see that you already posted link to this. Amazing images showing sharpness completely across frame with wide-RF lenses. I truly doubt that Sony's Nex-7 will give like performance with wide-RF lenses.
    I think the big difference between the Ricoh GXR + A12 Camera Mount and all of the Micro-FourThirds, NEX and NX cameras that can work with adapted RF camera lenses is that the Ricoh solution is actually an optimized, dedicated camera for these lenses. The others are usable only insofar as they have a short mount register and the lenses can be fitted ... but they are optimized for their own lens lines, not for lens adaptation.

    There is much subtlety in these things. The real question that I'm curious about is: did Ricoh do a better job of it than Leica themselves? Of course, they're using a smaller sensor which makes it a little easier to do, but that, to me, is an interesting question.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    >did Ricoh do a better job of it than Leica themselves?

    This is a very dangerous question :-) and has many levels.

    1. Sensor (I leave this to others who have stronger opinions). But the Sony snsors are not bad.

    2. FF or not FF (the main issue it changes the field of view and meaning of the lenses)

    3. Image quality

    4. Value for the money (here the GXR stands very well :-) )

    5. Handling as a digital camera. Here the slowness of the Leicas drives me nuts and the GXR is nice to use(this is of course only me)
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >did Ricoh do a better job of it than Leica themselves?

    This is a very dangerous question :-) and has many levels.

    1. Sensor (I leave this to others who have stronger opinions). But the Sony snsors are not bad.

    2. FF or not FF (the main issue it changes the field of view and meaning of the lenses)

    3. Image quality

    4. Value for the money (here the GXR stands very well :-) )

    5. Handling as a digital camera. Here the slowness of the Leicas drives me nuts and the GXR is nice to use(this is of course only me)
    I agree that it is a "dangerous" (I'd rather say "complex") question with many nuances to it. Certainly Leica went for a larger sensor in the M9 to preserve the original field of view they designed the lenses for, but that doesn't matter much to me since I don't think of a focal length as determining a field of view .. it is the coupling of focal length and format that create a field of view, and I'm just as happy to call 35mm my normal as 50mm. In some ways, I prefer a smaller format as you get more DoF with a larger lens opening, netting more capability in low light (for my shooting).

    For me the question of "who did it better?" in the context that I was speaking to is a narrower question, not concerned so much with format size and camera handling or price. It has to do with which optimization of sensor and existing lenses exploits the lens resolution and imaging qualities best. Minimizing color shifts, corner and edge smearing, light falloff and edge-effect artifacts is what I was thinking of, not the total camera package.

    Of course, evaluating the total camera package, the other factors all have to weigh in too. I'm not going to get involved in that judgement until I also have a Leica M9 to work with. That'll be next year sometime, I hope. ;-)

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Since I intend to use a couple of Pentax and Nikon lenses on the A12 Camera Unit, I ordered a pair of mount adapters for them from rugift.com. The ones I received were made in Italy by COMA and available direct from their web page:

    http://www.adrianololli.com/

    I posted a page showing the Nikon adapter, alone and fitted to both Nikkor 85/1.8 and Micro-Nikkor 55/3.5 lenses:

    http://homepage.mac.com/godders/nikontoleicam-adapter/

    enjoy...

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Sean Reid has just published the first installment of his rolling review of the A12 mount unit for GXR.
    Carl
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Sean Reid has just published the first installment of his rolling review of the A12 mount unit for GXR.
    Thanks Carl - I was waiting for that one!

    Keith

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Perhaps I'll subscribe and read Sean Reid's work after I finish writing my initial impressions. I have about a third of it written now, should have more time to work on it this afternoon.

    I always hesitate to pay for subscribtions to sites like his, however. The value I get from reading other people's reviews is usually very very limited.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Old curmudgeon here - I did subscribe to Sean Reid for 1 year when I first got my M8, I didn't renew because I hated the way his reviews were in Adobe Flash. No way to use them on a device that does not have flash and not a pleasant experience when it did have flash. The content was fine. If he produced eBooks or PDFs then I might consider buying them, but for me the flash subscription model doesn't work.
    David Anderson

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    I agree, Sean's flash presentation is a real pain. I subscribe because I enjoy his views on photography mixed within his reviews. He has a few pet peeves which he harps on about, but overal calls a spade a spade. His stuff is also extremely thorough.

    He likes the M-A12, as he calls it, and is reviewing it with a lot of references to the Leica M8/9, so has already placed somewhere in that league. I think he likes the IQ better than the Leica X1. He has a lot more detailed testing to do.

    Keith

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    An official English translation of the grblog post mentioned earlier:

    http://www.grblog.jp/2011/09/english...t-hands-on.php

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    There is an interesting comment over in the Ricoh forums about the improvement in macro focusing using 1.4

    http://www.ricohforum.com/viewtopic....5d75813a501c09

    Keith

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    There is an interesting comment over in the Ricoh forums about the improvement in macro focusing using 1.4

    http://www.ricohforum.com/viewtopic....5d75813a501c09

    Keith
    I've found the same. September 9 is coming right up!

    While the Loupe mode is useful for some things, the full screen magnification set to a toggle on FN1 and the focus assist (either mode 1 or mode 2, depending on scene dynamics) set to a toggle on FN2 will be an awesome working configuration with the A12 Camera Mount. They're a little less awesome for manual focus with the A12 AF camera units simply because the servo lag on these camera units really does get in the way when you're trying to be precise and quick.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    >A12 AF camera units simply because the servo lag on these camera units really does get in the way when you're trying to be precise and quick.

    Standard lenses feel really way more precise in focussing. Focus by wire is no pleasure to use.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    ...
    Standard lenses feel really way more precise in focussing. Focus by wire is no pleasure to use.
    In this case, for sure. But I don't disparage "focus by wire" in general ... so much is dependent on the implementation. Better lenses, like the Olympus ZD high-grade and super-high-grade lenses, have an excellent feel and much higher precision servos than the A12 AF camera units. They provide comparable focusing quality and precision to high end manual helicoids.

    The Ricoh GXR isn't at that level of sophistication, that's all. The AF camera units are meant to be used with the AF system most of the time and they do a very good job of it when used that way. For occasional manual focus tweaking on a complex subject and for macro work with the camera locked onto a tripod, they work well enough most of the time.

    But I'll be happier with the manual focus lenses once the Camera Mount is in my hands. I'm not much of an AF guy ... :-)

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    >I'm not much of an AF guy ... :-)

    I am getting converted because MF on classic DSLRs is a pain so I did not use it much. With EVF and focus magnification I like MF a lot as you are more in control.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    From the Ricoh Forums

    Ricoh has a gallery of images from a wide range of lenses using the m-mount here:
    http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gxr/gxr_mnt/index.html

    Keith

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    In case people haven't noticed, Adorama has a special on Ricoh this week ..

    http://www.adorama.com/SearchSite/De...&utm_source=ET

    John.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Some GXR M-Mount updates:

    1. Got the EVF
    2. Got a Nikon to M-Mount adapter

    3. M-Mount and Raw converters

    The sensor without AA filter can record very fine details. This will challenge some RCs (e.g Lightroom and C1) on some images as they may create some de-bayering artifacts. RAW Developrt 1.9.2 now also supports the M-Mount module. Best you check it out.

    http://www.iridientdigital.com/produ..._download.html
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    Some GXR M-Mount updates:

    1. Got the EVF
    2. Got a Nikon to M-Mount adapter

    3. M-Mount and Raw converters

    The sensor without AA filter can record very fine details. This will challenge some RCs (e.g Lightroom and C1) on some images as they may create some de-bayering artifacts. RAW Developrt 1.9.2 now also supports the M-Mount module. Best you check it out.

    http://www.iridientdigital.com/produ..._download.html
    Uwe,

    Thanks for the tip about RD. I haven't used it in awhile, but given the support for both new Ricoh and NEX RAW files I will update and give it a try.
    Carl
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Now with the EVF using the A12-M is much more fun.

    Here are some shots with Micro Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 (own it since about 1974)






    Maybe closer to buy it.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Uwe, I love the rendering of the Welding shop series! - Good to know you that you are thinking about getting a GXR Kit. Can't wait for mine to arrive, I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas.
    David Anderson

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    >Good to know you that you are thinking about getting a GXR Kit.

    I think the images are slightly better than with the same lenses on the Panasonic G3. But not sure it justifies to get crazy.

    Same Nikkor lens on the G3:

    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    This time Zeiss 21mm.

    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    That looks really nice, at that size, Uwe. Is this image available to examine at full size?

    Owen

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    UWE,

    I am interested in this GRX for the many reasons mentioned in Dpreview, but I am shy with the dated sensor and EVF. The big + is of course I could use both M & R lenses on a non-gadget camera without thousands of useless settings & buttons.

    1) Don't you think there is more depth in your pictures with this camera ? On my screen at least, it is evident.

    2) How would you compare IQ between this M Ricoh module and all the other (comparable) cameras that passed through your hands ?


    Thanks
    Michel

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    I'm not Uwe ...

    Personally, I'm totally unconcerned with how "dated" a sensor might or might not be. My 2003-2004 generation Olympus E-1 still produces superb, compelling photographs with its ancient, low megapixel sensor.

    I'm concerned with how well a particular camera works and what image quality it produces. The Ricoh GXR and A12 AF modules produces superb quality images and works as I like a camera to work. My brief preview of a couple of lenses on the preview A12 Camera Mount that Uwe allowed me to try indicates that it is more of the same ... excellent quality images, excellent handling.

    Who knows? NEX, Micro-FourThirds and NX cameras to date have shown only so-so performance with RF camera lenses, the GXR+A12-M seems to do as well or better than they do or even the last non-Leica dedicated RF lens camera (the Epson R-D1). On that basis, I've chosen to go with it.

    Keep it simple, concentrate on the photography not the equipment ... my new mantra ... :-)

  43. #143
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Even if Godfrey is not "Uwe" I am very much in line with him.

    Here are the questions I ask and will try to answer for me:

    0. I also don't worry much about the sensor. I think the D90 is know for excellent image quality and uses the same as far as I know.

    1. How much better is the image quality compared to the G3 with same lenses. The lack of AA is clearly a plus. Does it matter beyond pixel peeping, I don't really know.

    2. I have a NEX-5n on oder and will compare it too with same lenses.

    I honestly love the GXR-M but also own many cameras :-)

    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I'm not Uwe ...


    Keep it simple, concentrate on the photography not the equipment ... my new mantra ... :-)
    That's not a new mantra to me it has always been, I am interested in this camera precisely to keep it simple as expressed in my post above.
    For example once I saw the following video, I knew I won't buy a NEX:

    http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/0...l-of-features/

    You'll be surprised to know that until now I haven't buy any digital camera (except a compact Pana TZ3) for these same reasons, too many useless features

    But you know that new sensors handle things like noise much better, I am not talking "pixel race" here.
    One good reason is that a sensor with more pixels should complicate a lot the micro lenses array.
    12Mp fit my bill very well, I am not printing big anymore.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    There are two factors that are important to me (remember I used too many DSLRs since the Nikon D1 in 2000).

    1. Image quality (mostly at lower ISO is fine)

    2. Handling (getting the preview and so)

    Some cameras make me nervous in terms of handling (X100 and Leica X1) so that I don't even get to the point to appreciate the image quality. In the end I could live with the X100 if it had interchangeable lenses. The GXR-M never got me frustrated in any way and the keeper rate is very high (partly because of the MF).

    Images from this morning with Nikkor 35mm f/2 (don't like the plastic feel a bit but it does the job).









    Nikon 20mm f/3.5:

    Last edited by ustein; 11th September 2011 at 16:21.
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by sinwen View Post
    That's not a new mantra to me it has always been, I am interested in this camera precisely to keep it simple as expressed in my post above.
    For example once I saw the following video, I knew I won't buy a NEX:

    http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/0...l-of-features/

    You'll be surprised to know that until now I haven't buy any digital camera (except a compact Pana TZ3) for these same reasons, too many useless features

    But you know that new sensors handle things like noise much better, I am not talking "pixel race" here.
    One good reason is that a sensor with more pixels should complicate a lot the micro lenses array.
    12Mp fit my bill very well, I am not printing big anymore.
    It was something of a joke to list it as my "new" mantra too.

    I've not yet seen a NEX model that I liked much as a camera yet. Perhaps the NEX 7's ergonomics will be improved.

    The number of features I don't use on a camera isn't an issue unless they get in the way. While I would love something with the direct simplicity of the Leica M4-2 I bought recently, as long as what I'm using has the basics laid out simply such that the extra stuff I don't want to bother with isn't bugging me, I don't care too much. The GXR has been delightful this way: I can configure it to work just as I like and then forget about all the options I don't need or want.

    I've printed to excellent 20x24 inch prints with 5 Mpixel captures, 12 Mpixels gives plenty of editing overhead and resolution. More's better, but there's a limit to how much is truly needed and useful unless you're always printing massive, gigunda sized prints.

    Someone will undoubtedly say, "what have you got against more pixels?" The answer is: nothing. I don't see the need for them, that's all.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Uwe,

    You're certainly having fun with that camera. I can't wait for mine to arrive.

    The Rayqual Nikon F to Leica M mount adapter arrived. Much trimmer than the COMA in appearance, lighter too, and it feels just as precisely made.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    >"what have you got against more pixels?"

    I always like more good quality pixels but not at any price. If I don't have them I just print smaller :-).
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    I always like more good quality pixels but not at any price.
    Exactly ! I won't buy a leica M digital for this reason.
    So as you have many different cameras, I repeat my question differently then, how good is this sensor compare to what you have else.
    And I repeat also that I wonder if the sensor in this A12-M is a bit out today and you are well in position to answer that I think.

    Thanks
    Michel

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    Re: Ricoh GXR - M Lens camera unit almost there ...

    >And I repeat also that I wonder if the sensor in this A12-M is a bit out today and you are well in position to answer that I think.

    Don't see this as a problem at lower ISO anyway. That said I have a NEX-5N + EVF on order. For me this maybe the real competition. But I could live very long with the GXR.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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