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Thread: Sony a900 ads leaked

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Sony a900 ads leaked

    Some leaked Danish ads for the Sony a900 are popping up on the net. 24.6 megapixels, 5fps.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Some leaked Danish ads for the Sony a900 are popping up on the net. 24.6 megapixels, 5fps.
    Have a link?

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    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    I read today that the official announcement is due on the 10th.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Yummy ... plus CZ/AF 135/1.8, 85/1.4, 24-70/2.8 ... maybe more Zeiss like a 21/2.8, 28/2 or 35/1.4 ?

    ... Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmy!

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    If they hit a homerun with the sensor, and Zeiss whips up a few more spectacular AF lenses ... this is a Leica R killer ... and Canon better fix the 1DsMKIII and their W/A optics really fast ... or ...

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    If they hit a homerun with the sensor, and Zeiss whips up a few more spectacular AF lenses ... this is a Leica R killer ... and Canon better fix the 1DsMKIII and their W/A optics really fast ... or ...
    With the quality of some of those lenses, they may become very competitive. That 135mm f/1.8 is almost enough to make me postpone a new Nikon body and have a go at it. I need a 135 anyway, particularly if I go full frame.

    If the A900 isn't more expensive than the D700, I'll need some headache tablets

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    With the quality of some of those lenses, they may become very competitive. That 135mm f/1.8 is almost enough to make me postpone a new Nikon body and have a go at it. I need a 135 anyway, particularly if I go full frame.

    If the A900 isn't more expensive than the D700, I'll need some headache tablets
    Because of the CZ glass this sounds real interesting to me too but have to wait and see the files, hope they're not the typical Sony sensor ones. By the way Jorgen, what happened to your S5?

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    Because of the CZ glass this sounds real interesting to me too but have to wait and see the files, hope they're not the typical Sony sensor ones. By the way Jorgen, what happened to your S5?
    The S5 is on hold, still waiting in the shop. I'm considering buying a D700 instead, or both, selling the D80. There's too much work to think right now.

    I could use the D700 for its low-light capabilities, but it's a lot of money, and I keep thinking of all the lenses I can buy for the $2,000 price difference

    I will probably do a lot of jewelry photography the coming year, mostly silver. The S5 is perfect for dynamic range and colours. The last shoot was done with available light with three different light sources, perfect for the Fuji, S3 in this case, but I had to shoot RAW to be on the safe side... 3 images, and then full stop for 40 seconds :sleep006:

    The problem with the Fuji sensor is that it doesn't render enough detail sometimes. So I guess I need both, right?
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 5th September 2008 at 00:45.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    With the quality of some of those lenses, they may become very competitive. That 135mm f/1.8 is almost enough to make me postpone a new Nikon body and have a go at it. I need a 135 anyway, particularly if I go full frame.

    If the A900 isn't more expensive than the D700, I'll need some headache tablets
    Full Frame, 24 meg for less? Or even just a bit more? Or even a bit more than the D3? Now wouldn't THAT load a few diapers at Canon and Nikon?

    I handled the Zeiss 135/1.8 at a show and ... well ... there just isn't anything else in it's class.

    I've now sold most all of my R gear ... which was my personal DSLR ... this is a tempting replacement.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Full Frame, 24 meg for less? Or even just a bit more? Or even a bit more than the D3? Now wouldn't THAT load a few diapers at Canon and Nikon?

    I handled the Zeiss 135/1.8 at a show and ... well ... there just isn't anything else in it's class.

    I've now sold most all of my R gear ... which was my personal DSLR ... this is a tempting replacement.
    My guess is that the top Sony bodies will be relatively affordable. The lenses are good, but expensive, and they need to sell gear to a lot of amateurs to obtain a high enough production volume. It will take time before they have a strong enough foothold in the pro market.

    As for the 135/1.8, I couldn't agree more. I'm tempted to buy a Sony body just to have something to mount that lens on

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    As for the 135/1.8, I couldn't agree more. I'm tempted to buy a Sony body just to have something to mount that lens on
    It wouldn't be the first time I did something like that myself

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    It wouldn't be the first time I did something like that myself
    So it's actually normal behavior? I don't need to see a shrink after all?

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Definitely a 'wait and see' I'd have thought.

    Not least because the rumours all say that Nikon will use this sensor too, and past experience suggests that they'll do a better job with it than Sony.

    Although conventional wisdom says that Nikon will launch it in a BIG body first, I'm wondering . . . I would have thought they would see Sony as someone to frighten off quickly, and as such they may feel that a 24mp D800 is a better first step than a D3x or D4.

    I would also like to see how the Sony/Zeiss zooms work with full frame - I'd also like this camera a LOT . . . but I'd want to use it for landscapes and nature, and I do want sharp corners - the D3/D700 has taught me how few lenses will actually supply that, and making assumptions about the Sony glass is rash. (I'm sure the Zeiss primes will be fine (although curvature of focal plane may still be an issue), but with that kind of investment I would want a couple of zooms as well).

    Exciting times nevertheless!

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Although conventional wisdom says that Nikon will launch it in a BIG body first, I'm wondering . . . I would have thought they would see Sony as someone to frighten off quickly, and as such they may feel that a 24mp D800 is a better first step than a D3x or D4.
    Maybe you're right, and that's the reason the D3 is not called D3H.

    Considering the size of the Zeiss/Sony lenses, the 135mm in particular, I suspect they'll look great on any sensor smaller than the Atlantic Ocean, but I agree: there's no reason to hurry.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Definitely a 'wait and see' I'd have thought.

    Not least because the rumours all say that Nikon will use this sensor too, and past experience suggests that they'll do a better job with it than Sony.

    Although conventional wisdom says that Nikon will launch it in a BIG body first, I'm wondering . . . I would have thought they would see Sony as someone to frighten off quickly, and as such they may feel that a 24mp D800 is a better first step than a D3x or D4.

    I would also like to see how the Sony/Zeiss zooms work with full frame - I'd also like this camera a LOT . . . but I'd want to use it for landscapes and nature, and I do want sharp corners - the D3/D700 has taught me how few lenses will actually supply that, and making assumptions about the Sony glass is rash. (I'm sure the Zeiss primes will be fine (although curvature of focal plane may still be an issue), but with that kind of investment I would want a couple of zooms as well).

    Exciting times nevertheless!
    According to Irakly who once shot with a Minolta, some of the pro level glass was quite excellent.

    I'm not interested in corner sharpness with my work ... I have other solutions for that. I am focussed on Bokeh and color rendition for candid people work. I'd buy this camera just for the Zeiss 85/1.4 and 135/1.8 ... but no rush, the Leica M8 cured me of that.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Hmmmm.

    That could mean trouble. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    HI Marc
    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    According to Irakly who once shot with a Minolta, some of the pro level glass was quite excellent.
    I used to shoot Minolta as well - and I agree, there was some excellent glass.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I'm not interested in corner sharpness with my work ... I have other solutions for that. I am focussed on Bokeh and color rendition for candid people work. I'd buy this camera just for the Zeiss 85/1.4 and 135/1.8 ... but no rush, the Leica M8 cured me of that.
    Certainly, a rush for full frame can cause grief (witness Kodak). I actually have high hopes for this, and if the glass really does sing, it may easily be the right answer for me. But like you, this time I'm going to wait and see, not so much because I've been burned (and it's fun being a pioneer), but even if the camera is cheapish, the cost of entry is pretty high!

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    I don't think there has ever been a photokina offering so many different crossroads for the kind of people like us. Most either coming from canon or having been there, most not holding their breaths for canon, lots of looking at nikon but with this Sony and those lenses to consider as well.

    I have a few niggles that I have to work out re a possible switchover to nikon but I'm waiting till after photokina to make a decision. The time is right as I have a quiet winter (relatively) though the finances are awful right now!
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    I don't think there has ever been a photokina offering so many different crossroads for the kind of people like us. Most either coming from canon or having been there, most not holding their breaths for canon, lots of looking at nikon but with this Sony and those lenses to consider as well.

    I have a few niggles that I have to work out re a possible switchover to nikon but I'm waiting till after photokina to make a decision. The time is right as I have a quiet winter (relatively) though the finances are awful right now!
    Ben, PM me with any questions ... having just made the switch myself I may be able to shed light on Pro and Cons.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Here's another leak, a guy using the A900 with a Zeiss 16-35mm:

    http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=557025

    Let's see now...

    Sony A900 with

    Zeiss 16-35mm f/? (new)
    Zeiss 24-70mm f/2.8
    Zeiss 85mm f/1.4
    Zeiss 135mm f/1.8
    Sony 70-400mm f/4.5-5.6 G (new)
    And a macro. And in-body IS. And 24MP.

    The rest of the camera has to pretty awful to make this a bad proposition.

    Now, where is that huge pile of cash? Never here when I need it

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The S5 is on hold, still waiting in the shop. I'm considering buying a D700 instead, or both, selling the D80. There's too much work to think right now.

    I could use the D700 for its low-light capabilities, but it's a lot of money, and I keep thinking of all the lenses I can buy for the $2,000 price difference

    I will probably do a lot of jewelry photography the coming year, mostly silver. The S5 is perfect for dynamic range and colours. The last shoot was done with available light with three different light sources, perfect for the Fuji, S3 in this case, but I had to shoot RAW to be on the safe side... 3 images, and then full stop for 40 seconds :sleep006:
    I guess you had auto bracket on, you wont have the same problem with the S5, it has a much deeper buffer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The problem with the Fuji sensor is that it doesn't render enough detail sometimes. So I guess I need both, right?
    I don't know, I find the S5 very capable, it has more resolution than the S3 and the files take well to sharpening, detail isn't going to be your problem with this one. Yes the D700 images look sharper on screen but in print I find Fuji has more resolution with its wider tonal range and DR. Personally I skipped the Nikons (D3/D700) in favor MF digital.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Very valuable feedback, David. Looks like I should pick up the S5 and take a wait-and-see approach to FX for now.

    There's a rather interesting WA DX lens in the makings too: the new Tamron 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5. If it's good, it will be a very useful lens.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Here's another leak, a guy using the A900 with a Zeiss 16-35mm:

    http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=557025

    Let's see now...

    Sony A900 with

    Zeiss 16-35mm f/? (new)
    Zeiss 24-70mm f/2.8
    Zeiss 85mm f/1.4
    Zeiss 135mm f/1.8
    Sony 70-400mm f/4.5-5.6 G (new)
    And a macro. And in-body IS. And 24MP.

    The rest of the camera has to pretty awful to make this a bad proposition.

    Now, where is that huge pile of cash? Never here when I need it
    The Photo of the guy shooting on that link isn't using a a900 or a 16-35 as far as I can see.

    The lens is the Zeiss 135/1.8 ... and the camera doesn't look like the protype a900 that's been shown so far ... it looks like a a700.

    If that is the real a900 and it's 24 meg anti-shake in a a700 sized camera ... then look out Canon and Nikon !

    The 16-35 is a DX type lens only ... the a900 is supposed to have a full frame sensor.

    BTW, the Zeiss 24-70/2.8 is awesome, but very hard to find anywhere.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The Photo of the guy shooting on that link isn't using a a900 or a 16-35 as far as I can see.

    The lens is the Zeiss 135/1.8 ... and the camera doesn't look like the protype a900 that's been shown so far ... it looks like a a700.

    If that is the real a900 and it's 24 meg anti-shake in a a700 sized camera ... then look out Canon and Nikon !

    The 16-35 is a DX type lens only ... the a900 is supposed to have a full frame sensor.

    BTW, the Zeiss 24-70/2.8 is awesome, but very hard to find anywhere.
    The lens is a zoom lens (two rings) and the numbers say 16 and up to 35. It's believed to be the new, not yet launched full frame WA zoom.

    The camera is clearly not the A700. The A700 has a prism with a flat top, while this one has one with a pyramid shape, identical to previous prototypes of the A900. You can also see that there's black tape on the front of the prism to hide the Sony logo.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Marc, look at the pentaprism box, it's definitely the new A900.
    And on the zoom barrel of the lens you can see the digits 35 and behind that 28, so it has to be a new ultra wide angle 24x36 zoom lens - in the range of 16-35mm or 17-35mm I assume ... ?
    /Steen

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Jorgen, you were not supposed to say that before me

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The lens is a zoom lens (two rings) and the numbers say 16 and up to 35. It's believed to be the new, not yet launched full frame WA zoom.

    The camera is clearly not the A700. The A700 has a prism with a flat top, while this one has one with a pyramid shape, identical to previous prototypes of the A900. You can also see that there's black tape on the front of the prism to hide the Sony logo.
    Holy-Moly, you are right.

    What is confusing is that the a900 photos show a larger camera with a base like a D3 or canon 1D series. This photo shows it as the size of a D700.

    Maybe the base is an option.

    This could be very exciting news.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Holy-Moly, you are right.

    What is confusing is that the a900 photos show a larger camera with a base like a D3 or canon 1D series. This photo shows it as the size of a D700.

    Maybe the base is an option.

    This could be very exciting news.
    HI Marc
    I've always understood that the A900 would be a 'small' camera with an add on grip - it's one of the reasons I wonder whether Nikon won't bring out a D800 (to compete with Sony) rather than a D3x or D4 (to compete with existing Canons).

    That camera also has no popup flash as far as one can tell.

    Aren't those sony/zeiss zoom's pretty!

    On the other hand, my local dealer (who is selling a lot of Sony kit) reports of terrible backup service from Sony, and real difficulty in getting hold of the lenses.

    We shall see.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Very valuable feedback, David. Looks like I should pick up the S5 and take a wait-and-see approach to FX for now.
    I would but then I always liked the Fujis, I went for the S3 after buying and hating the D2x followed by a short romance with a 1dsmk2. The S5 was just what I was hoping it would be, a capable body and improved IQ even if its still DX, for the moment I still prefer it to any new offering on the market. The S5 is your camera if you value tonal depth close to film, and the Fuji colors, well you know about that already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    There's a rather interesting WA DX lens in the makings too: the new Tamron 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5. If it's good, it will be a very useful lens.
    Yes, I've been looking at that too, it looks quite interesting but for now its the Zeiss glass that I really love on the S5. My only reason to be interested in the Sony is because of the Zeiss glass, otherwise I haven't outgrown the Fuji yet.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    I would but then I always liked the Fujis, I went for the S3 after buying and hating the D2x followed by a short romance with a 1dsmk2. The S5 was just what I was hoping it would be, a capable body and improved IQ even if its still DX, for the moment I still prefer it to any new offering on the market. The S5 is your camera if you value tonal depth close to film, and the Fuji colors, well you know about that already.



    Yes, I've been looking at that too, it looks quite interesting but for now its the Zeiss glass that I really love on the S5. My only reason to be interested in the Sony is because of the Zeiss glass, otherwise I haven't outgrown the Fuji yet.
    The only way to make the Fujis shine is with good glass. No compromises there. I agree on the tonal depth, and in difficult lighting, there's no competition whatsoever, possibly except for the Olympus E-1, but in my case, that's history. It's interesting that Fuji and Kodak, the two film conglomerates, make sensors with a similar "look".

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    Jorgen, you were not supposed to say that before me
    Sorry about that. Won't happen again

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The only way to make the Fujis shine is with good glass. No compromises there. I agree on the tonal depth, and in difficult lighting, there's no competition whatsoever, possibly except for the Olympus E-1, but in my case, that's history. It's interesting that Fuji and Kodak, the two film conglomerates, make sensors with a similar "look".
    Yes, it is interesting, I guess the same design criteria that they had for developing their emulsions carried through to their sensor design.

    I find the Kodak and Fuji look similar except that both have very wide tonal range with exceptional color depth and like quality glass. But that's to be expected of sensors with high resolving power. Fujis have the upper hand on DR and noise while the Kodaks seem to have slightly more clarity.

    I'll take your word for the E-1, never had one but I know that Zuiko glass is up there.

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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Sony A900 + CZ 16-35/2.8?
    Source: http://tinyurl.com/6ycayx


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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    This may be the ideal DSLR solution for me... Glad I waited out the rush to Nikon after clearing out my Canon gear. Need to see what Canon has up their sleeve though before i decide. Did I hear correctly on the price at $3000 for the body?
    Jack
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Sony Alpha 900, Previewed

    For what it's worth DPReview's hands on report.

    I'll stay and dance with those who brung me, Canon and Leica.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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  37. #37
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    And lenses too boot. Hmmm pretty damn interesting.

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08...a_sal70400.asp

    3k for a 24mpx camera. Now that will peak some interest
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    This is unique

    After pressing the depth of field preview button, the camera “grabs” a RAW preview image which is processed and displayed on the LCD screen. You can then fine tune white balance, determine the best level and effect of dynamic range optimization, adjust exposure compensation and check histogram data, all before you actually take the picture. Preview images are not recorded on the camera’s memory card, thus saving capacity.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  39. #39
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    I'll stay and dance with those who brung me, Canon and Leica.
    Normally I'd agree John, but in the case of Nikon it's been too little, too late, and in the case of Canon it's been their undeniable arrogance at totally ignoring what we -- real photographers -- have been asking them to do for years. You know, simple things like an external MLU button. Finally the Leica R never got AF and I need AF in my DSLR...

    So my current attitude is to move on if they don't deliver. I am not a brand loyalist, instead I will be putting my money on the systems that best solve my shooting needs. Right now I need a DSLR for fast frame rates, high ISO and long lens work, and frankly not much else.

    I could have kept the 5D in service, but wanted better high ISO and a bit better frame rate (and a true MLU button). The D3/D700 added a stop of ISO and framerate over the 5D, but unfortunately deliver (IMO) the same 'plasticy' looking file. Yes I can process a lot of that look out, but it takes time. So now I was left waiting to see what the 5D replacement(s) will be and this new Sony full-frame 22MP wonder shows up. Bottom line will be what Canon releases and how well the Sony does at ISO 3200 (its 5FPS is just adequate for my needs), but this new Sony using Zeiss glass is a real big plus point in its column, so it's wait and see for me...

    Oh, and the Leica M fits my philosophy even with all of its warts: giving me a true digital RF camera with a large-enough sensor and great glass, so I still dance with it

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  40. #40
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Just have to love this comment from dpreview: "I can only presume the DSLR team has never met the guys behind the current range of Cyber-shot cameras... and I hope they never do."

    This looks like a truly great camera in every way. If the image quality lives up to the rest, I need to go back into my box and do some thinking

  41. #41
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Well 3k for a D700 and 3k for this new sony. That will make anyone think. Than what is canon bringing. Hold on to your boots folks this is getting interesting. This camera has a lot of firsts also. First IS body
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  42. #42
    Senior Member LCT's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    The 135/1.8 looks great but no Zeiss primes under 85mm though.

  43. #43
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    From the samples I've seen so far, anything above ISO400 seem to be unusable for commercial purposes. ISO100 and 200 on the other hand are just stunning. And the viewfinder appears to be over and above all the competition.

    I'm seeing a very nice studio camera here. I could absolutely use one for product photography, jewelry in particular, but I guess it's a good idea to see what Nikon can get out of that sensor, if that is what they are planning.

  44. #44
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked


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    Deceased, but remembered fondly here... johnastovall's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    One big question for Sony why not DNG for their raw files?

    At least on the brightside no Sony Memory Stick.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    At least on the brightside no Sony Memory Stick.

    Not so bright, it has CF and MS Duo.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Deceased, but remembered fondly here... johnastovall's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Not so bright, it has CF and MS Duo.
    Oh, no the can't give it up.....

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Looking forward to seeing how the competition responds. Sony certainly changes the high-end price point.
    This will be an interesting next 12 months, with Canon ready to release new models in the fall, and various strange rumors based on oversized IC on new Nikon lenses.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

  49. #49
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    Had a look at the image samples on DPreview. As others have stated anything over ISO 400 seems to exhibit a bit too much chroma noise. Also not impressed with the water colour like effect at ISO200, as if someone has already applied noise reduction to the image!

    What is impressive with that camera is it is the first DSLR to have 100% viewfinder in a smaller body, ie, not 1 series, or D3 sized camera with built in vertical grip.

    MAzor

  50. #50
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a900 ads leaked

    The jpegs out of the camera seem to be the problem. I've seen some samples of high ISO files taken in RAW that look much better, with a finer grain noise and much smaller amounts of it as well.

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