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Thread: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

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    Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    The first new micro 4/3 has been launched. Here is the hands on preview...

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08...nic_DMC_G1.asp

    Looks interesting although the lenses are pretty slow. New EVF technology will be interesting to see in action.

    Lens Roadmap......in addition to the two lenses launched (see link) in one of the threads there is a list of lenses coming for 2009 which includes a 20mm F1.7

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08...-45_45-200.asp

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=29289187
    Last edited by Terry; 12th September 2008 at 02:47.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    I'm sold

    Can't wait to try the viewfinder, and that lens roadmap... wow...

    If Olympus follows up with more interesting lenses (and a weather-sealed camera?), this will be an unbeatable travel system.

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    Subscriber Member Jonathon Delacour's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Lens Roadmap......in addition to the two lenses launched (see link) in one of the threads there is a list of lenses coming for 2009 which includes a 20mm F1.7
    I was utterly skeptical about the Micro Four Thirds standard until tonight, when I looked at the Lens Roadmap and saw that 20mm f1.7 prime listed.

    I became a 40mm (EFoV) convert earlier in the year after reading Mike Johnston's Why 40mm? essay and putting a 28mm (42mm EFoV) lens on my D300. Heaven on a stick! (Although I have a Voigtlander 40mm f2.0 lens, I've held off using it until I have a D700 to put it on.)

    Given that enthusiasm for 40mm lenses, the Olympus 25mm f2.8 pancake lens was a huge disappointment: too long and too slow.

    But, Panasonic, you can sign me up for a G1 + 20mm f1.7. I can hardly wait.

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Delacour View Post
    I was utterly skeptical about the Micro Four Thirds standard until tonight, when I looked at the Lens Roadmap and saw that 20mm f1.7 prime listed.

    I became a 40mm (EFoV) convert earlier in the year after reading Mike Johnston's Why 40mm? essay and putting a 28mm (42mm EFoV) lens on my D300. Heaven on a stick! (Although I have a Voigtlander 40mm f2.0 lens, I've held off using it until I have a D700 to put it on.)

    Given that enthusiasm for 40mm lenses, the Olympus 25mm f2.8 pancake lens was a huge disappointment: too long and too slow.

    But, Panasonic, you can sign me up for a G1 + 20mm f1.7. I can hardly wait.
    I love the Voigtlander 40mm on the D700. There are a lot of nice touches on this camera and that huge tilting screen is one of them.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    7-14mm + tilt screen + narrow backstreets of Hanoi.... I can't wait

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    7-14mm + tilt screen + narrow backstreets of Hanoi.... I can't wait
    That lens did look quite interesting. Can certainly live with f4 in that range!!!!

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    Senior Member ecliffordsmith's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Hi All,

    It does look like a good start. I am very curious to see what Olympus offers.

    A 25 Summilux would be nice to see eh ...

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    E.V.I.L.!!!!!!
    20mm/1.7


    *doeshappydance*

  9. #9
    PeterLeyssens
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Hi,

    The Panasonic G1 looks like a very interesting camera and I'm looking forward to a rumoured second Panasonic body and the Olympus offerings.

    Some people aren't too impressed by the size of the body and the lenses. But look at it this way: the G1 is 8mm thinner than the E-420. The grip is sticking out quite a bit, so the real thickness of the body will be very noticeably thinner than the E-420. Also, the body has this big 3" flipout screen. So a body with a smaller grip and a non-flippable LCD will be easy to slip into a pocket.

    Same for the lenses. The 45-200 is as long as the 12-60, but it's one centimeter shorter. But instead of up to 120mm equiv., it goes up to 400 !

    The lens roadmap looks sketchy, but the 20/f1.7 rocks . I'm still looking for something like the 11-22/f2.8-3.5, though. I'm not sure the m4/3 7-14 will be particularly small, and it's slow at a fixed f4.

    My personal preference would be a very good wide zoom (a la 11-22), then a great walkabout lens (like a tiny 25/f1.4 if it can be done in m4/3) and a decent telezoom (like the current 40-150: tiny and without OIS). And then an IS body, of course If Olympus announces a body that's very simple but offers IS, similar LVF/AF performance as the Panasonic, retro styling and something close to the lenses I described, I'm selling my E-420.


    Peter.

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    In Japan Panasonic showed a prototype of the G1 with HD video recording too. Due in 2009.

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Its a shame they didnt release at least one prime lens first,if the 20mm f 1.7 had come with the camera then my order would be in.However releasing the lenses in this order suggests there are better bodies to come.

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    Senior Member Arne Hvaring's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    A very promising debut of the new mount. I see no reason to worry about lenses (or lack thereof) at the present stage. Olympus and Leica (and perhaps even Zeiss) will no doubt add to the arsenal.
    I find at least two intriguing and I think novel features worth pointing out: switching to manual focus instantly enlarges the view 5x or 10x to facilitate pinpoint focusing. Pushing the DOF button will NOT darken the image in the viewfinder, thus giving a realistic visualisation of the effect of the chosen aperture. Indication of things to come in advanced future EVFs IMO.
    Now Leica and Panasonic have had a close relationship for the last decade or so, perhaps some of this technology will find its way into Leica cameras as well...

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    It is an ugly camera and not very imaginative in its look is my reaction. Why make it look like a faux dSLR? Also that snout from the popup flash will constraint the size of lenses you can put on it with an adapter. And loss the grip.

    I was hoping for a clean functional design start with new ideas not old ones.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    It is an ugly camera and not very imaginative in its look is my reaction. Why make it look like a faux dSLR? Also that snout from the popup flash will constraint the size of lenses you can put on it with an adapter. And loss the grip.

    I was hoping for a clean functional design start with new ideas not old ones.
    I think it is just a matter of time. In one article Panny said they can make the cameras much smaller but wanted to keep some size on it for easier handling. Don't forget their first aim is to capture the fast growing market for people upgrading to dslr's and the superzoom market. This is a system where there can be very different camera styles using the same lenses.

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    Senior Member Arne Hvaring's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    It is an ugly camera and not very imaginative in its look is my reaction. Why make it look like a faux dSLR? Also that snout from the popup flash will constraint the size of lenses you can put on it with an adapter. And loss the grip.

    I was hoping for a clean functional design start with new ideas not old ones.
    Faux dSLR; well, I suppose the EVF needs some space. Not very imaginative I agree, but ugly? I'd rather call it inoffensive
    Re the popup flash: it will not constrain the size of lenses at all, the adapter will push the lenses 20 mm forward, thus well out of the way of the protruding flash.

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Actually this is from the DPReview preview

    "From the outside it looks for all the world like a conventional SLR (albeit a very small one) - we're told that the design (complete with faux prism 'hump') is deliberately conservative; Panasonic's research has shown that its target market (particularly in Japan) still prefers a camera that looks like a camera is supposed to, and wasn't going to risk falling at the first hurdle by producing something too radical."

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    The 20/1.7 is nice and small.


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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    I think if they were aiming for the broad side of a barn, they missed it by a country mile! At least from what I've gathered so far.

    1. It's not much smaller than a E420.

    2. The slow kit lenses which the specs sheet says are 100mm long. Isn't that like four inches? The Oly kit lens 14-42 is less than three inches long.

    3. There is no AF support for the regular 4/3 lenses, so what's the point in a 140.00$ adapter? I'm sure there will be one on ebay for twenty bucks soon enough.

    It really seems like a camera for soccer moms, yet with the interchangeable lens factor, I doubt they will see the benefit, over the superzoom compacts, unless of course they can match their soccer uniforms to the funky colors it comes in.

    I was really jazzed when I saw the mock up of the LX3 look-a-like. I guess I got my hopes up.

    I really can't for the life of me, figure out why people want really small camera bodies for, if they are just going to put a big, long, slow zooms on them.

    Seems like another brilliant idea, dashed in an instant. Hopefully Oly will fare better.

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Not trying to be a fangirl but here is the text and a side by side with the 14-42

    "The new smaller lens mount and reduced flange back distance means that Micro Four Thirds lenses are noticeable smaller than their conventional SLR counterparts - even the already diminutive 14-42mm Olympus kit lens."

    http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/P...res/lenses.jpg

    also 52mm filter thread vs. 58mm on the Oly

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    asabet
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    The 20/1.7 looks smaller than the ZD 25/2.8 despite the former having a significantly larger aperture.

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Not trying to be a fangirl but here is the text and a side by side with the 14-42

    "The new smaller lens mount and reduced flange back distance means that Micro Four Thirds lenses are noticeable smaller than their conventional SLR counterparts - even the already diminutive 14-42mm Olympus kit lens."

    http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/P...res/lenses.jpg

    also 52mm filter thread vs. 58mm on the Oly
    Oh, and by the way, nothing against soccer moms.

    Hi Terry, I hadn't seen that side by side comparison, so the 100 mm length must have been for the 40-150 lens then. Still, there isn't much difference in size, not shirt pocketable anyway.

    Hi Amin, where did you see the 20 1.7 pic?

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Clay,

    1. It's not comparable to an E-420, but to an E-520. Grip, big battery and it even has an articulated LCD, like the E-3.

    2. Compare the lens to the PanaLeica 14-50, and you'll see that it's much smaller indeed. Olympus is another story, and we haven't seen what they will come up with yet.

    3. You don't have to buy the adapter if you don't want to. The whole point with M4/3 is to use the smaller M4/3 lenses. Being able to use the normal 4/3 lenses (and OM, F-mount, K-mount etc.) is just an added bonus.

    If this camera/system is best suited for soccer moms, I'll have to grow a soccer playing little devil as soon as possible and become one myself. It's very well suited for me as well

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Here is a picture of the 20mm f1.7

    Taken from a thread at DPReview
    Attachment 7552


    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=29296181

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Clay,

    1. It's not comparable to an E-420, but to an E-520. Grip, big battery and it even has an articulated LCD, like the E-3.

    2. Compare the lens to the PanaLeica 14-50, and you'll see that it's much smaller indeed. Olympus is another story, and we haven't seen what they will come up with yet.

    3. You don't have to buy the adapter if you don't want to. The whole point with M4/3 is to use the smaller M4/3 lenses. Being able to use the normal 4/3 lenses (and OM, F-mount, K-mount etc.) is just an added bonus.

    If this camera/system is best suited for soccer moms, I'll have to grow a soccer playing little devil as soon as possible and become one myself. It's very well suited for me as well
    Well, Jorgen, I'm truely happy you got what you wanted. Not to sound too disappointed, but I guess I pictured a GRD with a larger sensor, then when I saw the mock up, with the tiny zoom and prime, it was just about perfect for what I would like. I don't care for the swivel LCD or viewfinder or grip, I just want large sensor small camera, with a 28 mm equiv. focal length, like the GRD.
    I guess I can wait though. It sure seems like my life is going by faster, since I'm in such a hurry to get the next perfect thing. Maybe I won't grow old so fast, if I just use the E420 and pancake and quit reading these forums.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    I guess I can wait though. It sure seems like my life is going by faster, since I'm in such a hurry to get the next perfect thing. Maybe I won't grow old so fast, if I just use the E420 and pancake and quit reading these forums.
    It's worrying, isn't it? When I was young, active and supposed to jump on every bandwagon, like young people do (or so I've heard), I stayed with the same OM-1 for nearly thirty years (and a couple of OM-10 for backup). Now, at the ripe, old age of fifty-something, I'm turning into a gadget-geek.

    My only comfort is, that when reading these forums, it becomes increasingly apparent that I'm not the only one moving in the "wrong" direction

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    The 20/1.7 sure looks promising. Mounted on an Olympus body with IS (it doesn't seem to have OIS), it will be the "Queen of the Night".

    Here's a link to a page with lots of photos, including the 14-140:

    http://www.digitalcamera.jp/

    Here's an interesting thought from dpreview with regards to the design of the G1:

    From the outside it looks for all the world like a conventional SLR (albeit a very small one) - we're told that the design (complete with faux prism 'hump') is deliberately conservative; Panasonic's research has shown that its target market (particularly in Japan) still prefers a camera that looks like a camera is supposed to, and wasn't going to risk falling at the first hurdle by producing something too radical.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 12th September 2008 at 19:06.

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived


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    Senior Member Arne Hvaring's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Put a 7mm adapter on and you can use all the small Leica M-lenses, including the diminuitive offerings from CV. Now imagine being able to focus the 90 Apo precisely for once
    All this presupposes that the viewfinder and sensor delivers, which remains to be seen.

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    Senior Member Arne Hvaring's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Btw., there's an interesting picture at Mike Johnstons TOP site comparing the G1 and Canon G9 for size. The G1 has the zoom lens, but mount the 20 mm and the size should be pretty close.
    http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...log_index.html

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Arne Hvaring View Post
    Put a 7mm adapter on and you can use all the small Leica M-lenses, including the diminuitive offerings from CV. Now imagine being able to focus the 90 Apo precisely for once
    All this presupposes that the viewfinder and sensor delivers, which remains to be seen.
    That 90mm would give the fov of a 180mm. Some concert lens

    According to those who have tried it, the viewfinder is great for manual focusing, and big, big. Dim in low light though.

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Looking at the pic of the G1 with the 20/1.7, those little levers around the mode dial sure looks plasticky and fragile. Mot exectly confidence-inspiring, none of the main SLR makers would design controls like that. Such a small and portable camera will be banged around more (at least in my world), I think perhaps Pana needs another rev to get the controls right.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    I am already looking at the possibilities of trying to make use the Olympus Pen F(T) lenses I have.

    Any word on the pricing of the camera?

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Yes, Pen! Now that what they should be thinking about for a body design.....

    Maybe Olympus pass around a couple to their design team when they start to work.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Senior Member Arne Hvaring's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am already looking at the possibilities of trying to make use the Olympus Pen F(T) lenses I have.

    Any word on the pricing of the camera?
    Yeah, the Olympus lenses for the Pen were small and of excellent optical and mechanical quality, ought to work like a charm on the Panasonic. Let's hope an adapter becomes available. Sadly the only Pen lens I still have is the 38 mm *normal*.
    Pricing seems to be EUR 750 with the 14-45mm zoom.

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Ohhhhh, looked up the Pen F 1/2 frame SLR, that would make a kick-a** M4/3 DSLR!!!!
    Very sleek!

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Here is a picture of the 20mm f1.7

    Taken from a thread at DPReview


    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=29296181
    Mike Johnston (The Online Photographer) made the following observation about the 20/1.7:

    This looks like a mock-up to me, rather than a prototype. The lens has no filter threads and it doesn't look like it has a full complement of actual elements in place. That doesn't mean the final product won't look exactly like this, but for what it's worth I personally don't believe this is an actual prototype.

    But, just in passing, bravo to Panasonic for planning this lens!

    If you find his argument persuasive (I do), this *might* mean we have to wait a while longer for the 20/1.7 to ship.

    Mike also has some advice for those who are disappointed in the G1's appearance/size/build quality/specs:

    Another thing to bear in mind: The Panasonic G1 is the first Micro 4/3 camera, not the last. No need to bemoan the size or the feature choices just yet. There are going to be more cameras in this standard, even if it doesn't take off. If it does take off, there will be a great many more.

    I remain ecstatic about Panasonic's imaginative choice for their first prime -- at least they didn't settle for the safe, boring, predictable choice: a 25mm pancake.

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Arne Hvaring View Post
    Yeah, the Olympus lenses for the Pen were small and of excellent optical and mechanical quality, ought to work like a charm on the Panasonic. Let's hope an adapter becomes available. Sadly the only Pen lens I still have is the 38 mm *normal*.
    Pricing seems to be EUR 750 with the 14-45mm zoom.

    Thanks for the price info, Arne. Among the Pen F lenses, I also have the 38/2.8 Pancake!

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    I've been reading everything I can find about the G1 and I am just about sold on it. It fits my needs very well. I just hope there will be enough support for it from the camera buying public for them to really go full steam ahead and flesh out the lens road map with a couple more primes for portrait and macro. The 20mm f1.7 looks sweet!

    I think I want a red one. I've never had anything but black cameras, time to live a little!
    Regards,
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    No one else would prefer a fast 50mm equivelent pancake? Like f1.4? 40mm is a neither normal nor wide for all that it will be f1.7.
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    No one else would prefer a fast 50mm equivelent pancake? Like f1.4? 40mm is a neither normal nor wide for all that it will be f1.7.
    I think of the combo of G1 and 20mm (40mm) f1.7 as the digital canonet

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    No one else would prefer a fast 50mm equivelent pancake? Like f1.4? 40mm is a neither normal nor wide for all that it will be f1.7.
    The focal length is obviously a matter of taste, and hopefully there will be some primes from Olympus as well, but for a pancake, f/1.7 is actually very fast. Of pancakes currently in production, I can't remember any lens faster than f/2.0, the Voigtländer 40mm in F and K mounts.

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    I actually prefer 40mm because it's a little easier to use indoors in tight quarters, but certainly would be happy with a 50mm f1.4. I'm also really enthused about the 7-14mm f4. Hope that won't be ridiculously expensive.

    It'll be interesting to see how Olympus decides to incorporate mFT into their system. If they defy convention and go for more of a rangefinder-ish camera, I may wait for that. They better hurry up and show something!
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Doubt there will be that much longer to wait, photokina this year is certainly one of the most innovative in years from MF to M4/3 and everything in between.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    I hope we at least get a scale model E3,waterproof,tough and a few f1.anything primes from olympus,if they could get rid of the prism bump,perfect.Somebody is going to make a high quality body for this format,,I dont think its panasonic but it could be Olympus.all the best
    ,Neil.

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Best shots so far to give a sense of size

    http://flickr.com/photos/audioblog/s...7607245255351/

    And unless she has giant hands this size lens for a zoom is pretty impressive...

    http://flickr.com/photos/audioblog/2...7607245255351/


    Best discussion of the actual product from someone who has used it a bit....
    Andy Westlake reviews lenses for DPReview... his posts on this thread are interesting...

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=29306625

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Best discussion of the actual product from someone who has used it a bit....
    Andy Westlake reviews lenses for DPReview... his posts on this thread are interesting...

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=29306625
    His posts are particularly interesting considering the fact that dpreview has traditionally been rather skeptical towards earlier 4/3 products.

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Still far too big, until it's pocketable I might as well carry an SLR where I won't need to compromise on the 4/3 chips quality. Here's to hoping that Olympus won't build a camera specifically based on what pany think the Japanese market prefer.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    I did some weight calculations. Two bodies with batteries plus the two available zooms weigh in at 1,445g. Add to that the announced 7-14 at probably another 400g, the pancake at 200g and a macro of probably around 300g, and we have a complete travel setup, two cameras, three zooms covering 14-400mm (35mm eqv.), a fast normal and a macro under 2,500g.

    Last time I travelled with two bodies (S3 and D200) and similar reach, my camera bag was 12 kilograms plus tripod. The lenses I brought were faster, but at the end of the third day under a baking sun and 35 degrees Celsius, I would have changed to f/11 lenses if that meant I could have gotten rid of 10 kilos.

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Jorgen,

    A Canon 5D, 17-40L, 50mm Macro, 70-200 f4L IS, 2X Extender gives 17-400mm on FF for 2590g. The image quality will trounce this little pany.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Jorgen,

    A Canon 5D, 17-40L, 50mm Macro, 70-200 f4L IS, 2X Extender gives 17-400mm on FF for 2590g. The image quality will trounce this little pany.
    Not to nitpick but:

    a)Jorgen had 2 bodies in his list
    b)the filter size on the 17-40 is 77mm vs. 52mm on the G1 kit lens (see my link to the picture in my post above) that is a huge bulk difference
    b)the 5D setup is more than $4000 or about quadruple the cost of the G1
    c)and I would bet for 90% of what people shoot you won't have quadruple the IQ

    If the G1 meets with some success, there will be different body styles and perhaps one with catch your eye. I for one still commend Panny for walking down this road and looking to other divisions (like the video group) for real advancements in EVF and AF technology.

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