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New Sigma DP Merrill's?

Tim

Tim

Active member
If the DP2Q yields a better image than the DP2M and you refuse to buy only on the grounds of looks it seems you are more a gear-head and less a photographer. :p

If its functional you should buy for the IQ and the handling, not the looks.

Back to :watch:
 
peterb

peterb

Member
Quentin_Bargate said:
In short, I don't see how this can be described as higher resolution sensor when the total number of pixels across the three layers is lower.
Click to expand...
Hi Quentin,

I was wondering the same thing. What I suspect (and I could be way off here) is that maybe the 19.6 MP of luminance information from the top layer of photo sites may turn out to be sufficient to provide the clarity of 'perceived' resolution creating an image with similarly (if not greater) stunning detail enjoyed so thoroughly by many in the previous 15.4 MP Merrill sensors.

Then with the lower layers supplying solely 'color' information and very little (if any at all) luminance information it might be similar to having an incredibly detailed paint-by-numbers drawing that is filled with a rich blend of color information in order to create the final image.

And it just may turn out that what Sigma may have discovered is that the color information does not need to be nearly as etched as the luminance information in order to achieve a stunning image as was done in the previous generation of Foveon sensors.

Again, only time and testing will tell.

P
 
Tim

Tim

Active member
Quentin_Bargate said:
So to review where we are (rounded numbers):

Old Foveon: 15 + 15 + 15 mp = circa 45mp

New sensor: 20 + 5 + 5mp = circa 30mp

What I am not sure about is how much influence the blue (20mp) layer will have with predominantly red or green images. One of the problems with mosaic (Bayer) sensors is the relative lack of red pixels. With the revised "Foveon" design, are we not looking at the exact same problem?

Once one moves away from the pure foveon RGB design, I can see issues with interpolation and possibly with aliasing etc.

In short, I don't see how this can be described as higher resolution sensor when the total number of pixels across the three layers is lower.
Click to expand...
SO, wow, a lower res camera from the old model. Only Sigma would have the courage to do this and I now suspect it signals a better IQ image from the DPxQs. Why would they do this? unless there is something to gain in IQ. Could it be they have realised you don't need more pixels for the enlargements we make, just better pixels! :confused:

These cameras are by far going to be the most interesting IQ to examine for a long time.
 
Quentin_Bargate

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
Sigma are certainly full of surprises and are taking the fight to more established brands with innovative cameras and lenses. As a huge fan of the current Merrill range, I hope these new quattros are a step in the right direction. Perhaps more importantly, I hope they foreshadow a full frame version, perhaps a DSLR.
 
R

raist3d

Well-known member
peterb said:
Hi Quentin,
And it just may turn out that what Sigma may have discovered is that the color information does not need to be nearly as etched as the luminance information in order to achieve a stunning image as was done in the previous generation of Foveon sensors.

Again, only time and testing will tell.

P
Click to expand...
The discovery that luminance information is more important has been done a long time ago. Texture compression of graphic processors relies on this fact to keep reasonably good detail while compressing images for textures.

I am expecting better even if there are a few new quirks, because the previous sensor (Merrill) was very noisy and this design should avoid a lot of that relatively speaking.

- Ricardo
 
The Ute

The Ute

Well-known member
I'm a proud owner of 2 Sigma Merrill's. A DP1 and 2.

I love both and they are my primary cameras.

I have found workarounds for all of their shortcomings.

Being primarily a Landscape shooter I rarely have a need to increase sensitivity beyond
400 ISO.

If I want to shoot in lower light I just increase my exposure time and use a tripod.

In fact I always use a tripod with these cameras.

Unless there is a significant improvement in image quality and the price is under $1000
I see no need to purchase another one.

The Merrill's are selling for around $500.

Let's say this one goes for around a $1000.

Will it be twice as good ?

;)
 
darr

darr

Well-known member
The Ute said:
I'm a proud owner of 2 Sigma Merrill's. A DP1 and 2.

I love both and they are my primary cameras.

I have found workarounds for all of their shortcomings.

Being primarily a Landscape shooter I rarely have a need to increase sensitivity beyond
400 ISO.

If I want to shoot in lower light I just increase my exposure time and use a tripod.

In fact I always use a tripod with these cameras.

Unless there is a significant improvement in image quality and the price is under $1000
I see no need to purchase another one.

The Merrill's are selling for around $500.

Let's say this one goes for around a $1000.

Will it be twice as good ?

;)

;)
Click to expand...
I agree with you. I too most always use a tripod and have found workarounds for the camera. The biggest issue I have is the LCD display. I use a Hoodman when necessary, and switching the camera to portrait position sometimes is extra difficult for me to see. I equate using a DPM like a tiny 4x5" without movements. I would like an EVF, but that does not seem to be on table. What I always do prior to purchasing something new that I am interested in, is to wait for the initial buyers experience, look at their work and see if it is worth the money and effort. Right now I am encouraged by Sigma and hope their data collection might nudge them to look at adding an EVF, otherwise I will not give $1000 to something that I pretty much already use effectively.

Darr
 
The Ute

The Ute

Well-known member
darr said:
I agree with you. I too most always use a tripod and have found workarounds for the camera. The biggest issue I have is the LCD display. I use a Hoodman when necessary, and switching the camera to portrait position sometimes is extra difficult for me to see. I equate using a DPM like a tiny 4x5" without movements. I would like an EVF, but that does not seem to be on table. What I always do prior to purchasing something new that I am interested in, is to wait for the initial buyers experience, look at their work and see if it is worth the money and effort. Right now I am encouraged by Sigma and hope their data collection might nudge them to look at adding an EVF, otherwise I will not give $1000 to something that I pretty much already use effectively.

Darr
Click to expand...
greetings Darr-

Same plan of action for me regarding the new ones.

I use the Hoodman to overcome the the lack of a VF

I would also like that EVF option.
 
The Ute

The Ute

Well-known member
How bout changing the SD1 to a mirrorless design and include the new sensor ?

Or go all the way and just make it FF ?

:)
 
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