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Thread: First real review of the DPQ2

  1. #301
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    Michael,
    I rented an X-T1 after using the Merrills for a few months and walked away disappointed. I did however like its EVF, ergonomics and button setup, but the files could not compare to the X3F file quality IMO. I think we have been spoiled by the Merrills.
    I like a lot of things about the Fuji but not enough to accept inferior image quality.

    Mine is going back.

    I am going to use the money to buy a DP3.
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  2. #302
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Not had a chance to try the software and firmware out as yet. Might give it a go today or tomorrow if time permits.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    Thanks,
    interpolation is interpolation,

    I hope
    sigma will go back to "merrillish" chipdesigns in the future, and
    the prices for the Merrills will not increase
    I agree but the Quattro does have a true X3 capture when shot in low res (4.9MP). To me personally that's enough for a wide range of work and most work I would be interested in.

    But I suppose you could say I would prefer something like 7-8 MP true X3, with the slightly bigger sensor increase form dp2-> dp2M and any new technologies to try to make it much better color wise than Merrill. Not sure how much benefit there would be in that case.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    I like a lot of things about the Fuji but not enough to accept inferior image quality.

    Mine is going back.

    I am going to use the money to buy a DP3.
    A lot of people could say the same thing comparing the Merrill vs the Fuji. It really depends what you are shooting. The Merrill can give you an awesome raw but only at the lowest ISO in full spectrum light. The Fuji gives you color constancy (no magenta/green patches) and unmatched good color at high iso.

    So it really depends what you are doing to qualify each as "inferior/superior" image quality, imho.

    - Ricardo

  5. #305
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    A lot of people could say the same thing comparing the Merrill vs the Fuji. It really depends what you are shooting. The Merrill can give you an awesome raw but only at the lowest ISO in full spectrum light. The Fuji gives you color constancy (no magenta/green patches) and unmatched good color at high iso.

    So it really depends what you are doing to qualify each as "inferior/superior" image quality, imho.

    - Ricardo
    I shoot mostly landscape and have never minded the quirkiness of the Merrill.

    The payoff is incredible image quality.

    Color issues are easy to handle in PP.

    You can't add resolution, and micro contrast, and detail.

    I only went to the Fuji because I thought it was versatile. It is.

    But the image quality is clearly inferior when compared w a Merrill IMO.

    I found I am spoiled enough that I can't live without it despite the other shortcomings.

    So off she goes.
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  6. #306
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Now we have a thorough new test - from

    Welcome to ReidReviews

    Sorry, but you have to pay to read his test.

    His tests are really good, he really knows what he's doing, but his site is not as user friendly as he protects much - is obviously very afraid - copying from non-paying, so it's a little tricky, especially for me that is not English and who would like to have certain things translated, or extract the text something for their own use, so you do not have to sit and get "odd" eyes on the screen = you can not immediately.

    But the bottom line is, from Reid, the Quattro is not as good as Merrill, but if you are on the fence, then I recommend to pay and read.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    I shoot mostly landscape and have never minded the quirkiness of the Merrill.

    The payoff is incredible image quality.

    Color issues are easy to handle in PP.

    You can't add resolution, and micro contrast, and detail.


    .
    "You can't add resolution, and micro contrast, and detail."

    Can not agree more.

    ----

    "Color issues are easy to handle in PP"

    I have handled some, but it was more hit or miss or trial and error, do you have something here - perhaps step by step - you would share, my ears and eyes are like rabbits

  8. #308
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    I suppose I am in the fortunate position of being able to form my own view (and provide some evidence in support) as I own both the DP2M and DP2Q, and I can thus safely refer to my own findings, and thus discount, the views of "DigLloyd" and some other testers, while of course respecting the entirely reasonable subjective preference some have for the Merrills.

    There is, without a doubt, something mind boggling about the Merrils image quality that is not present to such an extent in the Quattro files, but I think this might be misleading. The DP2 Quattro, in my view, has slightly higher resolution and better colour but inferior dynamic range (or at least, the highlights are clipped more easily). It does not jump off the screen so readily. I also quite like the odd body shape, but it is less convenient for panoramic shots.

    I need to try the Quattro with the new firmware.

    The Merrill is a passionate love affair; the Quattro more of an arranged marriage that works well, but it is not yet clear if that marriage will last.

    By the way, I am absolutely on the same page as anyone else who argues for a new true X3 type sensor. A full frame true Foveon sensor would be as awesome as it is unlikely.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    I suppose I am in the fortunate position of being able to form my own view (and provide some evidence in support) as I own both the DP2M and DP2Q, and I can thus safely refer to my own findings, and thus discount, the views of "DigLloyd" and some other testers, while of course respecting the entirely reasonable subjective preference some have for the Merrills.

    There is, without a doubt, something mind boggling about the Merrils image quality that is not present to such an extent in the Quattro files, but I think this might be misleading. The DP2 Quattro, in my view, has slightly higher resolution and better colour but inferior dynamic range (or at least, the highlights are clipped more easily). It does not jump off the screen so readily. I also quite like the odd body shape, but it is less convenient for panoramic shots.

    I need to try the Quattro with the new firmware.

    The Merrill is a passionate love affair; the Quattro more of an arranged marriage that works well, but it is not yet clear if that marriage will last.

    By the way, I am absolutely on the same page as anyone else who argues for a new true X3 type sensor. A full frame true Foveon sensor would be as awesome as it is unlikely.
    Quentin I respect you very much, in fact you and one more put me into the Merrills, and I am very happy for this.

    Thank you very much for this.

    ---
    About Lloyd Chambers and Reid: They are not subjective, in fact they are very objective (as much as you can be in this world), they do not care what kind of camera or lens it is, and they do their testing so good, so they can earn a living from it.

    There is a lot of reviews around about everything, but some testers are so good, objective and really know what they are doing, so people are willing to pay for it.

  10. #310
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyndel View Post
    Quentin I respect you very much, in fact you and one more put me into the Merrills, and I am very happy for this.

    Thank you very much for this.

    ---
    About Lloyd Chambers and Reid: They are not subjective, in fact they are very objective (as much as you can be in this world), they do not care what kind of camera or lens it is, and they do their testing so good, so they can earn a living from it.

    There is a lot of reviews around about everything, but some testers are so good, objective and really know what they are doing, so people are willing to pay for it.
    Thanks for the kind words, but I don't regard Lloyd Chambers comments quoted earlier in this thread (I assume accurately) that "No serious photographer could accept the miserable results for the dp2 Quattro seen here.." as being objective. It may be his opinion, of course, but it is not an objective statement of fact.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Thanks for the kind words, but I don't regard Lloyd Chambers comments quoted earlier in this thread (I assume accurately) that "No serious photographer could accept the miserable results for the dp2 Quattro seen here.." as being objective. It may be his opinion, of course, but it is not an objective statement of fact.
    Off course you are right here, but I asume it should be read in context of the whole (all) the tests he did.

    My bottom line (from the Reid Test) is of course not the whole truth (but still true), you have to read the entire test, which of course is far more nuanced, but I can not copy it, and if I could, I think he would be mad at me

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quentin, I tried to find the phrase at Lloyd, but there are too many pages to read, tried first conclusion, but it was not here so it may have been a single thing at Quattro, as he was very unhappy with, but he writes, indeed, about the "good" things about it, also

    My personal conclusion from Lloyd is that in the places that matter most to me, the detailed sharpness I can print huge, so it is not better than Merrill, no ...it is not as good, and then there are some places where Qattro is better, but still not on par with Bayer sensors (iso-performance) and also not newer cameras (in handling)= but you have to read it, there are - as mentioned - many pages and many things he examined.

  13. #313
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyndel View Post
    "You can't add resolution, and micro contrast, and detail."

    Can not agree more.

    ----

    "Color issues are easy to handle in PP"

    I have handled some, but it was more hit or miss or trial and error, do you have something here - perhaps step by step - you would share, my ears and eyes are like rabbits
    Same as you. Trial and error.

  14. #314
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    I think these cameras are going to generate strong views for and against because they are so unusual in every way. I'm still on the fence about the relative merits between the DP2M and DP2Q. I did not purchase a DP1M replacement after mine was stolen, so look forward to the DP1Q when released (when is that, by the way?).
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    I heard two rumors. One says September, the other early 2015.

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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    I heard two rumors. One says September, the other early 2015.
    I prefer the 1st rumor.


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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Ute.. have you tried the updated SPP for Merrills?

  18. #318
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    Ute.. have you tried the updated SPP for Merrills?
    Sorry. I have not.

    I had one of the loaners and it was not out yet.

    I'd bet Quentin has.


  19. #319
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quentin.. did you?

  20. #320
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Not yet. Probably tomorrow.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Interesting discussion folks, thanks.

    Quentin, thank you for starting this thread as well (like the DP2M thread). You always present some amazing imagery.

    I almost regret selling my DP2M and I am still hoping to see ACR/LR and/or DxO support in the future.
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    So I now have had the Quattro for a few days. I remain astounded at the sharpness and resolution of the camera. Color has been more of a problem than my initial shots led me to believe. I have not used Sigma software before, so I expect more skill on my part would be helpful. The crops below from a 645D using a 67 55mm at f/11 and the Quattro, also at f/11, indicate a more serious problem of color bleed (I believe that's the correct term). The marigold is red and yellow as it appears in the 645D shot. Is this a problem addressable in software?


    Tom




    Last edited by tsjanik; 8th August 2014 at 19:39.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    DP2m lens peaked at f=5,6, q lense will be the about same, so why shoot it at f=11?

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    DP2m lens peaked at f=5,6, q lense will be the about same, so why shoot it at f=11?
    DOF?

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Tsjanik, try using the neutral color setting in SPP.

  26. #326
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by tsjanik View Post
    So I now have had the Quattro for a few days. I remain astounded at the sharpness and resolution of the camera. Color has been more of a problem than my initial shots led me to believe. I have not used Sigma software before, so I expect more skill on my part would be helpful. The crops below from a 645D using a 67 55mm at f/11 and the Quattro, also at f/11, indicate a more serious problem of color bleed (I believe that's the correct term). The marigold is red and yellow as it appears in the 645D shot. Is this a problem addressable in software?


    Tom




    Update your firmware and go to the latest version of SPP.

    Both should help w problems like this.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Thanks for the suggestions. I'm using 6.0.5 and I just received the camera from Sigma 5 days ago, so I assume it's the latest firmware. Using the neutral (vs. standard) setting restored some of the yellows, but not much. It's an amazing sensor, but I am having problems with the color; I'll take Darr's advice and try a Merrill before considering the Quattro.

    Darr,

    I see you love the Merrills, but you can still post in the MF forum sometimes too.

    Tom

    PS foveon, f/11 to minimize focus errors; I'm not testing the lens, I can see it's fabulous.

  28. #328
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by tsjanik View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions. I'm using 6.0.5 and I just received the camera from Sigma 5 days ago, so I assume it's the latest firmware. Using the neutral (vs. standard) setting restored some of the yellows, but not much. It's an amazing sensor, but I am having problems with the color; I'll take Darr's advice and try a Merrill before considering the Quattro.

    Darr,

    I see you love the Merrills, but you can still post in the MF forum sometimes too.

    Tom

    PS foveon, f/11 to minimize focus errors; I'm not testing the lens, I can see it's fabulous.
    I wouldn't assume that. Check the firmware.

  29. #329
    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by tsjanik View Post
    Darr,

    I see you love the Merrills, but you can still post in the MF forum sometimes too.

    Tom

    PS foveon, f/11 to minimize focus errors; I'm not testing the lens, I can see it's fabulous.
    Honestly Tom, I have not shot MF in a couple of months. Last week I packed-up some gear including the ALPA kit to head out for a shoot and then the weather turned bad quickly. Unfortunately, Florida is like this in the summer and what I wanted to shoot with the ALPA and Merrills (comparison testing), I could not, so I continue on without any MF results, but I feel no disappointment. The smaller size of the Merrills are making my photographic journeys much easier these days and I find this to be more satisfying because I am getting more work done. Recently I acquired a SD1 Merrill for studio macro work and if I can get it to do what I need it to do, I may be heading out of MF. IMO, the Sigma 70mm macro lens is not as precise as the SK 120 M lens, but for fine art work, it has been showing great promise in my testing. My photography started to take a new direction about 18 months ago. The Merrills were tested to be part of the new direction and they have satisfied me so far and have brought up my productivity level.

    It truly is a great time to be in photography with all the new technology.

    PS: I shoot 99% of my DPM work at f/8 on a tripod with ND/polarizer; to me they are mini field cameras!
    Last edited by darr; 10th August 2014 at 16:48.
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    ................
    It truly is a great time to be in photography with all the new technology.

    ..........................
    True enough, but in some ways easier when big developments in equipment were years apart, e.g. a new film.

    I returned the DP2Q to Sigma today. It has opened my eyes to the potential of Sigma sensors. I must say the ergonomics of the Q didn't work for me - the grip was most comfortable in my hand when held upside down and pointing at me - great for selfies, but not much else! I intend to try a Merrill as you suggested. Enjoy your new found cameras.

    Tom

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2


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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    For me 100% crops from the Merrills are more detailed

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Perhaps Digiloyd should read this review. Remind me again why some people pay to read that guy's site?

    The views expressed in this review by Steve Huff are much closer to my own. I have spent long enough now with the DP2Q to validate Huff's image quality findings with a few caveats mentioned earlier in this thread. There is not much wrong with a $1,000 camera that produces almost flawless medium format like prints at sizes larger than my Epson 7900 can achieve.


    Quentin Bargate
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  34. #334
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Perhaps Digiloyd should read this review. Remind me again why some people pay to read that guy's site?

    The views expressed in this review by Steve Huff are much closer to my own. I have spent long enough now with the DP2Q to validate Huff's image quality findings with a few caveats mentioned earlier in this thread. There is not much wrong with a $1,000 camera that produces almost flawless medium format like prints at sizes larger than my Epson 7900 can achieve.
    Even less wrong w a $500 camera that can do the same.


  35. #335
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Anyway, I made many interpolation tests with merrill DP2, and quattro (but with merrill), and 36 Mpix - 39 Mpix quattro shows details more finesse that merrill.
    With merrill I got good Results, but worse than the quattro and apply until 36 Mpix. Even at 30 Mpix, the results were not as good as the quattro 36-39 Mpix.
    A native defintion, the merrill seem to show more detail, because those are more contrasted and accentuated.
    I think Quentin did a lot of testing also, interpolation, plus prints, to get a good idea on the issue.

    I remember at the beginning of the discussion dedicated to Merrill, he wrote that the DP2 Merrill had a similar definition to a 28 megapixel, more or less depending on the subjects photographed.

  36. #336
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by octagone View Post

    I remember at the beginning of the discussion dedicated to Merrill, he wrote that the DP2 Merrill had a similar definition to a 28 megapixel, more or less depending on the subjects photographed.
    I did. In a print, the DP2Q is closer to around something like 35-38mp with a carefully uprezzed shot. A subjective view but based on very large prints even bigger than that.

    Quentin
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  37. #337
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    I read the Huff review.

    And I have also done my own real world testing of the Q vs. the M.

    And I have posted the results here before.

    My conclusion is that the Q is not superior in quality to the M.

    And the photos I posted here earlier in the thread show that to be the case.

    And the Merrill is about half the price.

    It really is a matter of taste.

    IMO Huff panned the Merrill way more than I would have.

    His criticisms are mostly not valid.

    For example, he stated that the AF of the Q is superior to the M.

    I have not found that to be the case.

    The autofocus on the M is just as good as on the Q.

    I never noticed any difference in my comparison testing.

    And the only review that should really matter is your own.

    So my advice is to try both before you plunk down an extra $500.

    You can just about purchase 2 M's for the price of just one Q.

    Anyway, whichever one you decide to use happy shooting.

    Last edited by The Ute; 19th August 2014 at 07:56.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2


  39. #339
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Canon 6D vs dp2 quattro:
    6D
    https://flic.kr/p/p7oz9X

    Quattro
    https://flic.kr/p/oPcrZJ

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    so what?

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    so what?
    He gives us fine information - I am happy for that.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    so what?
    sorry,I didnt want to be harsh,
    I just was on my handy, and didnt see the explanations on flickr so I missed them.

    PS: just noticed sharpness in SPP is set to -0,1; I know this from older releases and the Merrills, but here maybe its not the best, a little sharpening applied to the Canon and the Sigma image brings a noticeable detail boost to the Sigma.

  43. #343
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    After that shower Sigmas CEO had a talk to LuLa at Photokina.

    Photokina - Days 2 & 3

  44. #344
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    After that shower Sigmas CEO had a talk to LuLa at Photokina.

    Photokina - Days 2 & 3
    I think the review was overly negative and the problems exaggerated.

    It is not really that big of a problem to convert X3F files en masse to TIFF's IMO.

    On my computer it takes about 30 secs per file.

    Once they are in TiFF format you can pretty much do as you like w them.

    And by saying all of this I am not saying that things could not use some improvement.

    Just that these guys were too critical IMO.

    The Sigma compacts were never designed to be mainstream. They are a specialist tool.

    I for one am glad it's that way. Don't want the masses using my secret weapons.



    And as far as crashing goes. Mine never crashed once using the latest version.

  45. #345
    Member octagone's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    DP2 Merrill vs Dp2 Quattro definition - details - SPP 6.0.6.
    Gear for Image :: Sigma dp2 Quattro vs DP2 Merill:Resolution

  46. #346
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Interplation tests to 54Mpix, crop 100 (click the image once displayed to view 100%).


    Based on this site .jpg:
    SIGMA dp2 Quattro:

  47. #347
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by octagone View Post
    Interplation tests to 54Mpix, crop 100 (click the image once displayed to view 100%).


    Based on this site .jpg:
    SIGMA dp2 Quattro:
    If you use Mac OS 10.10.1 and Safari DO NOT attempt to visit this site via the image link. I did and Safari was locked into a phishing website alert telling you to call an 800 number immediately about a security issue. Do that and they will attempt to extort money from you to unlock Safari. The simple escape is to force quit and on reopening Safari and elect to NOT reopen windows from last session.
    Carl
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