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First real review of the DPQ2

Future

New member
Depends on the tripod!

I quite often find myself carrying a small CF tripod along with small shoulder bag that holds the two DPMs plus some accessories - as opposed to a full bag with a DSLR, lenses, and large tripod.

It's quite liberating to go 'lite'.
I use this most of the time.
 

darr

Well-known member
Depends on the tripod!

I quite often find myself carrying a small CF tripod along with small shoulder bag that holds the two DPMs plus some accessories - as opposed to a full bag with a DSLR, lenses, and large tripod.

It's quite liberating to go 'lite'.
Absolutely could not agree more!

I carry all three DPM cameras plus a RRS tabletop tripod in a small pack, and a Gitzo GT1541 with an RRS BH-25 Ultra-Light Ballhead slung over my shoulder via a strap, and it is light enough for this 5'3" female that recently turned 56. I gave up taking out my MF digital outfit for nature trail walks and invested in the DPMs and could not be happier. :)
 

G43

New member
The DPQ1 has been given a new lens.

I am waiting to see how that affects image quality.

As far as artifacts go they are easily dealt w in PP.

And yes, the DP Merrill's are a screaming bargain.
The Diglloyd results for the DPQ2 is showing clearly what the sensor does. The DP2Q lens is the same as DP2M. It does not help to capture light with another lens.

Merrills are a screaming bargain, I agree.
 

foveon

Member
Hi,
I'm happy for all the folks who are or will be happy with the Quattro. I do think Sigma should have improved the Merrills instead of having to make a splash with something new and exciting.
Add a battery pack under the Merrill much like the old motor winders or the packs on more modern cameras. Add a EVF. It would have been great improvements of better battery life and actually being able to see what you're making a picture of without reinventing the wheel.
IMHO.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Robert
+1,
add a folding display and working live view
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
Place for a rant :D



Color bleeding is non existent in any real foveon because color is captured well at each pixel. This induce the clarity of foveon files, a sharpness induced by real color capture.

Meanwhile, in the quattro, a huge part of the red and green are guesstimated inducing color wrong interpretation on edge of objects. I have the DP2 quattro. It is more a bayer camera than a foveon. It is a 2/3 bayer camera to be precise. "Foveon" is just a principle in this device, and only a principle.

But if ppl are happy with this, it is ok. I'm not. Happy me I still have the real foveons in my pocket, this one is returning.

The foveon is dead.

The principle of Foveon is pretty simple : Capturing each color at every pixel location.

The principle of Quattro is guestimating a an extremely large part of the colors by processor calculation.

Bear in mind that the Quattro is not a foveon anymore. It is an hybrid between bayer and foveon.

So, if you want a "quattro" effect in your merrill, just go Neutral mode sharpness -1, contrast -3 and your done. (hoo yea !! I forgot that you will have a little bit less resolution but ... who care at this level ?)

What do a Foveon when he pain at finding colors in shadows ?

>> He struggle between the 3 layers to try to find, resulting in wrong, localised colors. By localised I mean it won't go out of the pixels who represent a problem for him. At the end you have two ways to circumnavigate this, closing a bit the shadows (resulting is a lose in DR) or simply using a chroma noise cursor in many applications, like lightroom. Often ppl tend to puch to far this cursor resulting in a total lose of the color information. At the end, the Merrill sensor have a lot of DR, not as much as SD15 but on par.

A foveon can not bleed; non of the electronic parts or software are made for it. It is a foveon.

.............................................................................

What do a Quattro when he pain at finding colors in shadows ?

>> The processor go crazy and interpolate the nearest color in those problematic pixels. The problem is not allocated to the pixel, it contaminate the others. This is what we call "bleeding" and this is a typical bayer behaviour.
 
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foveon

Member
....The foveon is dead.

The principle of Foveon is pretty simple : Capturing each color at every pixel location.

The principle of Quattro is guestimating a an extremely large part of the colors by processor calculation.

Bear in mind that the Quattro is not a foveon anymore. It is an hybrid between bayer and foveon.

...
I think so, what a shame
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
Exactly !

My consumer advice is rushing the last bastions where you can find the last Merrills before it is gone forever.
 

peterb

Member
So I guess we'll have to wait and see how Canon executes it's multi-layered Foveon-like sensors in its future cams. :)
 

4711

Member
@ Hulyss

assuming that the new quattros will not give us anymore this clarity and 3D-like impression as the Merrils or the SD15, what could be an alternative from other brands to "copy" this Sigma effect as close as possible?

Would Fuji with the X-Trans sensor be an alternative to get a kind of similar Sigma effect ?

What is your opinion?
 

Kyndel

Member
From Diglloyds comparison against Canon 5DMKIII I must admit I like the Canon performance better.
DPQ2 shows flawy colors even compensation between the two cameras has been made professionally as allways with DL.
There is kind of a layer of fine white dust over the DPQ2 files.
There's a tad more resolution in the DPQ2 images, but the Canon looks sharper.

I am afraid I'll have a fast sell when the camera arrives.

Simply disappointing.
As I read the Lloyd comparison, also with the DP2M, my interpretation is:

Something is better with the quattro - iso performance and handling, but not all is better in the IQ department - now we have a kind of interpolation, perhaps that is the "issue", so I will stick to my 3 DP Merrill cameras, I think

= For me those cameras are iso 100-200 cameras (for color), or more, - perhaps up to 1600 if B & W (fantastick iq from the Merrills in B&W) and I have other cameras for more iso in color, if needed.
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
@ Hulyss

assuming that the new quattros will not give us anymore this clarity and 3D-like impression as the Merrils or the SD15, what could be an alternative from other brands to "copy" this Sigma effect as close as possible?

Would Fuji with the X-Trans sensor be an alternative to get a kind of similar Sigma effect ?

What is your opinion?
Well, other brands have some interesting patents and might venture in the 3 layers concept. Low res FF sensor such as D700 A7s ... give you a far more tridimentionnal effect with good lenses but less resolution.

The Fuji X-trans is very good. I can say that the XT-1 is the best APS-C camera I ever used, at all level. It is very sharp, the problem in foliage do not exist anymore with Lightroom and the colors are just splendid. But it is not a DP Merrill.

DP Merrills are at 399 Euros in Europe.

The Quattro do not give any advantage over the DP Merrills to justifies 900 Euros.
 

G43

New member
You are right guys.
My expectations to the Quattros were very high. But it was exactly the files Lloyd showed that made me turn on a plate.
For 400 Euro or whatever slightly under, the Merrills is best buy *serious files* at the moment.
 

Future

New member
Well, other brands have some interesting patents and might venture in the 3 layers concept. Low res FF sensor such as D700 A7s ... give you a far more tridimentionnal effect with good lenses but less resolution.

The Fuji X-trans is very good. I can say that the XT-1 is the best APS-C camera I ever used, at all level. It is very sharp, the problem in foliage do not exist anymore with Lightroom and the colors are just splendid. But it is not a DP Merrill.

DP Merrills are at 399 Euros in Europe.

The Quattro do not give any advantage over the DP Merrills to justifies 900 Euros.

ah man, that really sucks!
I was waiting for the new Qs, I paid £700 for DP2m back then; but as most of my work is landscape, I thought I wait for the 1Q with a better lens than the 1M.
Now they killed the foveon principle :(

Would you advise me to go and get the DP1M? it's £339 now.
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
@ Hulyss

assuming that the new quattros will not give us anymore this clarity and 3D-like impression as the Merrils or the SD15, what could be an alternative from other brands to "copy" this Sigma effect as close as possible?

Would Fuji with the X-Trans sensor be an alternative to get a kind of similar Sigma effect ?

What is your opinion?
ah man, that really sucks!
I was waiting for the new Qs, I paid £700 for DP2m back then; but as most of my work is landscape, I thought I wait for the 1Q with a better lens than the 1M.
Now they killed the foveon principle :(

Would you advise me to go and get the DP1M? it's £339 now.
I would advise you to wait and see :)
 

biglouis

Well-known member
^^^^ Hulyss ^^^^

Your evaluation is disappointing and as a staunch supporter of the DPxM line also worrying.

I must admit I have not used my Merrils much in recent months, especially since buying the Ricoh GR.

I also decided to invest in a Sony A7 system. I must say, having a proper viewfinder is extremely refreshing after making do with clip on viewfinders or just the LCD back.

What a shame that Sigma did not at least add a clip on EVF to this system. I'm not trolling just reacting to the fact that it now seems de rigeur for compacts to have this as an option - and Sony's new RX100MkIII completely ups the game as far as EVFs and compacts are concerned.

I do wonder if my DP2M and DP3M will actually become 'collectors' items in a few years if Sigma have indeed abandoned the purity and quirkiness of Foveon as you suggest.

LouisB
 

Kyndel

Member
In fact - after this test - I am thinking about buying one more DP2M, now it is so cheap, it is about half the price I payed for the first - just to be sure I always have one ;);) - and you never know = one day it will be a collector item ;)

As I remember you also have 2 DP2M.s biglouis ?

I also have the Ricoh GR and it is very good, but not the DP1-3 M.s sharpness.
 
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