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Thread: First real review of the DPQ2

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    First real review of the DPQ2

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    I pretty much like your enthusiasm!

    Well, I'm always blown away by fine foveon pictures. I still see some flaws here, but resolution is nice and beside the flaws it seems, the quattro is still different from the competitors and worth its money.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    For less that 1000 bucks I think it is amazing.
    I see the Foveon flaws here too, but they are easy to live with as long the the strengths are so overwhelming as they are.

    We cannot compare to the DP Merrills to know the differences, so I take Sigmas word for the improvements already stated by them.

    There's some green fringing at extreme contrasty situations, but I actually prefer such unavoidable optical artifacts over a magenta fringe. Green fringing simply looks more natural to magenta.

    I love the Bokeh. Soft and velvety.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    It is incredible stimulating to learn the camera has the potential as promised.
    Clearly we have not seen all of it unfolded yet. This camera in the hand of a skilled photographer mastering the PP part will produce stunning results.
    Entering the Foveon world for the first time this is not a bad way to start.
    If it keeps coming like that, I found my new hi-rez stills cameras in the 1-2-3.
    The best part of it being so relative compact. The worse part that no IBIS is inside.
    I've just undusted my tripod telling it it's on duty again

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    the full size samples blow me away!
    Brad Husick

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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Not seeing anything there that a Merrill doesn't do.

    The head to head comparison will decide if there is a real gain.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    There might be no IQ gain for Merrill users? But there's enough secondary gains, such as faster reading, longer battery lifetime etc etc... the list is long.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by RitterRunkel View Post
    I pretty much like your enthusiasm! ...
    Me too, hope you keep it after you got your baby; I know people sending back a DP2m after 2 days.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    I got my DP2m some days after it was in the shops, the difference to my DP2 was huge, but I dont see the need for a fast upgrade from m to q now.

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    For those that care, Lloyd Chambers has posted: Sigma dp2 Quattro: Review Starts Tomorrow. A lot of his site is membership only. Some folks do not like the membership stuff, but for me personally I have found over the years if I want a more serious and detailed (on going) review of equipment, he is the reviewer I read and will pay for it. Just a heads-up as I love my DP Merrills and know some of you do as well.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    I am a member of Lloyd Chambers and I am looking forward to a long and exhaustive test. It is serious and torturous testing.
    It will fathom the SPP also for sure and they probably will also process the RAWs in Iredient.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    ...I love my DP Merrills and know some of you do as well.
    Me too,
    if you dont love it you send it back
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    ive got all the Merrill cameras and love the micro contrast and the foveon quality...of all the samples I have seen on the net they done pop out and say to me wow...im sticking with my dp1.dp2 and dp3 ..and waiting to see what canon have got up there sleeve at photokina...all the samples off the net don't seem to have the micro contrast like the merrills...ill be passing on the dpq2

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Samples looks great, but then so the the Merrill's

    For me, somewhat improved ISO performance doesn't mean much because its still not going to come close to replacing my Sony A7 or even most other APS-C so I think it would still be a tripod camera for me

    Better battery life is nice too, but then again, think how many spare batteries $450 or so will have bought me and its not like they are big/heavy to carry spares

    Faster writes would be nice, but then again, given I'm already working on a tripod, does it matter that much ? Not like I'm trying to motor drive a football game and need the buffer clear.

    I think when the Q's drop to $699 or so I may upgrade but pretty happy with DP2m and DP3m

    I may consider the Q1 though if the lens is improved as the DP1m falls short for me, even at a budget price
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    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Looks every bit as good as the DP2M, but with more resolution. Count me in.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, 罵eading individual, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    I am in love with the files.

    https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=sigma%20dp2%20quattro

    Very natural looking.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Oh Dear again Sigma ****s it up with their PP SW. Man it is embarrassing.
    But good news for the IQ.

    diglloyd - Blog

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    I am in love with the files.

    https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=sigma%20dp2%20quattro

    Very natural looking.
    If some of the images on Flickr are representative, dnd I guess they are somewhat, then I notice a different rendering vs the DPM sensor.
    Many of those files reminds me a bit of C-MOS rendering just that the noise looks far more natural to me.
    Also the ultra contrast the DPMs shows seems here a tad less pronounced. This doesn't worry me at all. Contrast I'll handle using curves.
    But already now I think we can say, this is a different animal than the DPM.

    Anyways there's no better way to judge the IQ than processing the files yourself.

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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    If some of the images on Flickr are representative, dnd I guess they are somewhat, then I notice a different rendering vs the DPM sensor.
    Many of those files reminds me a bit of C-MOS rendering just that the noise looks far more natural to me.
    Also the ultra contrast the DPMs shows seems here a tad less pronounced. This doesn't worry me at all. Contrast I'll handle using curves.
    But already now I think we can say, this is a different animal than the DPM.

    Anyways there's no better way to judge the IQ than processing the files yourself.
    Different in a better way or a worse way ?

    Just being different means little.

    Those flicker shots were of such mundane subjects it is very hard to tell much at all.

    And the real test will be when someone does a head to head test between the
    comparable Merrill and the Quattro.

    And also when the Quattro is compared to an A7r or D800e.

    Most of the rest of it is minor improvements hardly worth double the price.

  20. #20
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    I am in love with the files.

    https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=sigma%20dp2%20quattro

    Very natural looking.
    Guess you haven't looked at that many DP2 Merrill files ?


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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Looks every bit as good as the DP2M, but with more resolution. Count me in.
    I seriously doubt the Quattro will offers resolution better than the comparable Merrill.

    I await the empirical tests.

    As we all should.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    I seriously doubt the Quattro will offers resolution better than the comparable Merrill.

    I await the empirical tests.

    As we all should.
    It should offer a big leap in resolution. That is Sigma's claim and the full rez samples appear to support it.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    It should offer a big leap in resolution. That is Sigma's claim and the full rez samples appear to support it.
    Like I said I'll wait for unbiased empirical testing.

    I have used the DP2 Merrill for a quite a while now and I think it will be very difficult if not impossible to improve on it's resolution or the quality of it's files.

    They are absolutely eye-popping.

    But we'll see.

    I hope people do not get caught up in the hype.

    Especially when they will be paying almost double for a Quattro.

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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    I'm already sold on the foveon sensor, just make it work (SPP) on my Mac without crashing when simply exporting an image.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    Guess you haven't looked at that many DP2 Merrill files ?

    Wrong guess.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    Different in a better way or a worse way ?

    Just being different means little.

    Those flicker shots were of such mundane subjects it is very hard to tell much at all.

    And the real test will be when someone does a head to head test between the
    comparable Merrill and the Quattro.

    And also when the Quattro is compared to an A7r or D800e.

    Most of the rest of it is minor improvements hardly worth double the price.
    I agree the Flickr images varies in quality.

    Diglloyd is in full swing providing us with all the answers and comparos we could ever dream of.

    The point is maybe not to see how the DPQ is performing against ILC mirrorless systems or DSLRs if such cameras are not on your wish list. The DPQs and for that sake DPMs are fixed lens cameras and have their own appeal due to their performance vs. size.

    It can be debated whether an upgrade is worth measured in money. That's pretty subjective. Upgrading say one's camera body isn't always a question if it's economically feasible. Not to me at least. There might be other reasons than IQ.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    I too am a huge fan of the Merrills as most here know. I used a DP2m and DP1m almost exclusively in Morocco for shots that led to my successful ARPS submission, which is why I am so hopeful of the performance of the new Quattro's. I am not much of a fan of empirical testing; the only tester that matters for my purposes is me
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    So Diglloyds first comparison between the DPQ and DPM is out. Serious stuff.

    That shows clearly so to speak everything is better with the DPQ.

    - Vastly improved colors
    - Higher resolution
    - Lower noise
    - One stop more
    - Better DR

    .... but there's a maybe sour apple to swallow for some, since the files looks more like what we get from a Beyer sensor. I do not mind at all, but I am sure some does.

    What annoys me already too much is Lloyd found the SPP6 almost useless and it sucks terribly.

    I do not see this camera mature until the SPP6 or any other developer SW can handle the edition of RAW files and the colors. This is an offence by Sigma and pretty amateurish that they could not wait to blabber about the DPQ until it actually was developed to the end. IMO they show little respect to their customers in this case.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Untill now Foveon sensors worked without interpolation, now they start "bayerrization".
    IMO this is the reason why we old foveon- guys are a little suspicious^^

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    @Foveon

    Suspicious old Foveon owners should be. From the Diglloyd's first comparison it also clear that the DPM out resolves the DPQ talking details.
    It is not quite clear if Lloyd really appreciate the Beyerfication of the look and I agree it causes a few wrinkles on my forehead too. He has doubts whether the 'smearing' is due to in camera noise reduction or it's SPP6 related?

    Anyways it is clear the colors of DPQ is superior and likewise the grit we acknowledge in the DPM shadows is gone with the DPQ.

    At present it is too early to conclude but Diglloyd's findings doesn't lye. I feel though pretty sure that DPM owners will be a bit disappointed with the DPQ inferiority to dig out the smashing details the DPM is capable of.

    That leads me to the next thought that the DPQ certainly should appeal to owners of bulky hi-rez gear, loves his Bayer sensor and wish to down size his whole kit.

  31. #31
    Member octagone's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Dp2m and dp2Q, interpolated 36Mpix.
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by octagone View Post
    Dp2m and dp2Q, interpolated 36Mpix.
    Both good, but Quattro is the clear winner on detail and colour (the green of the trees, for example). Looks more like a native resolution file, not a file that has been interpolated at all.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Looks like Sigma is open to reviews and test shots from a large number of testers.

    Sigma DP2 Test Shoot | Sigma Corporation of America

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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    If Sigma has lost some of it's Foveon look and created more of a Bayer look they have
    not done us any favors.

    That Foveon 3-d like look is one of the things that was highly prized about these cameras.

    They should be looking to increase it rather than diminish it.

    I think the only one of these I'll be after might be the DPQ1 because of the improved lens.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    ...Quattro is the clear winner on detail ...
    Funny, I see the M as clear winner in detail, especially seen in the trees,
    the Q image just looks sharper, maybee other focussing, maybee in-camera-jpeg-settings

  36. #36
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    Funny, I see the M as clear winner in detail, especially seen in the trees,
    the Q image just looks sharper, maybee other focussing, maybee in-camera-jpeg-settings
    Micro contrast and detail are strong suits of the Merrill.

    They are a big part of what gives it the 3-d look so many people prize.

    Sacrficing that for greater color accuracy and slightly better functionality does not seem like a winner to me.

    But I wait to be convinced.

    Color accuracy is easily controlled in PP.

  37. #37
    Member octagone's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Raw and jpg download:
    SIGMA dp2 Quattro:

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by octagone View Post
    Raw and jpg download:
    SIGMA dp2 Quattro:
    I have downloaded SPP 6 and tried a couple of the Quattro raw files. The software is poor - keeps throwing errors and asking me to reboot. No change there, then...

    When I succeeded in decoding the files, they look good and seem to upscale well. They retain about 40% of the look of a Merrill file. Not convinced at the moment that the highlight recovery is a good, but it is difficult to tell with someone else's shots. For those wedded to the appearance of a DP2M file, I fear you may be a little disappointed the new files are not more Merrill-like. Need more shots of different subject matter.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Rendering dp2q estbeaucoup softer than merrill. Micro details are alot less contrast and less pronounced.
    But dp2Q renders a level of detail that much higher Merrill.
    I think the colors are rendered better, and it has a very beua made ​​very sweet, sa remark on some pictures, especially this one.

    https://flic.kr/p/o8moE6

  40. #40
    Member octagone's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Two other interpolation tests 36Mpix and 45Mpix.

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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Since there was no obligation I am getting one of the try-before-you-buy DP2 Quattro's

    Mine should be here within a week.

    I have a week to put it thru it's paces and return it w/o obligation.

    I plan on posting photos to the Sigma site.

    I'm pretty excited to have a chance to test it out against my DP2 Merrill.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    I have downloaded and worked a little with SPP 6.01 and have so far not experienced any of the crashes and bad behavior others are experiencing. I'm using a 2012 MBA with OS 10.9.3. I have processed both older x3f files from my dp2m and dp3m, as well as a few sample raws from the dp2Q. Other than the usual slowness, there were no crashes and the files were processed and saved w/o errors as 16 bit tiffs. Color is excellent in the new dp2Q files, but as others have noted no significant gains in detail or micro contrast that I could see.
    Carl
    Gallery

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Looking at the latest images on Lloyds site shows me there's hardly anything left from the M series type of IQ.
    But what there is, is a MF C-MOS camera like performance. That's objectively hard to criticize.
    I feel the DPQ series is going to be a love and hate relationship like it was the case with the M's.

  44. #44
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    Looking at the latest images on Lloyds site shows me there's hardly anything left from the M series type of IQ.
    But what there is, is a MF C-MOS camera like performance. That's objectively hard to criticize.
    I feel the DPQ series is going to be a love and hate relationship like it was the case with the M's.
    I don't think their was much hate w the Merrill, mostly love, as long as you knew it's limitations.

    The image quality was spectacular.

    I am getting one of those test Q's and I plan on making some real world comparisons.

    I'm looking forward to it.

    It's only a guess but I'm thinking the Q is the one that might come up short.

    Guess I'll find out.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    the thing that made me go the foveon route was the micro contrast..it is clear the q hasn't got the same quality ...its a fact from the samples I have looked at..im keeping my merrills until something outstanding comes out...and sigma for goodness sake get a good coder to do a version of sigma pro that doenst crash and is stable ..please....Merrill vs q ..for pure micro contrast and detail ....winner Merrill ...the q should have had that look instead it looks like poor quality bayer sensors.

  46. #46
    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    I'm getting one of the test DP2Q's as well, and I'm looking forward to playing around with it a bit. I'll have a chance to compare it to my Sony A7.

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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Mine is shipped in a week from now.

    It is not really Beyerish looking images but just that it lacks the *smack* the Merrills shows.
    When I compare to Lloyds doll scenes which is the same for all tested cameras, the level of resolution is at least on D800E level if not higher. But what is important is the noise is very very low and analog and not at all Bayerish like.
    This is of course very welcome, but I too would have loved a bit more *smack*

    Second. I would not be too concerned about eventual lesser detail OOC. There's plenty of information embedded in those files to develop micro contrast in PP.

  48. #48
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    I'm getting one of the test DP2Q's as well, and I'm looking forward to playing around with it a bit. I'll have a chance to compare it to my Sony A7.
    Unless you are talking an A7r it is not even going to be close.


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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    ,,, I would not be too concerned about eventual lesser detail OOC....
    If details dont come OOC wherelse they come from?^^

  50. #50
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: First real review of the DPQ2

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    If details dont come OOC wherelse they come from?^^
    He'll simply imagine them in.


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