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Thread: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

  1. #101
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    M vs. Q

    100 ISO, Standard, F8, 2 clicks down on sharpening, 1 down on chroma and luma noise AWB on the Q, Daylight on M

    Both tripod mounted w. 2 second self-timer
    thanks for this.
    colours aside, look at the wood, it looks very flat on the quattro, micro-contrast and texture aren't close to what the merrill catches.
    sounding like a broken record by now...

  2. #102
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    For those interested, a photographer blog where he compared Quattro vs Merrill in 8 parts. His conclusion was that he feels the sensor design sacrificed some detail/contrast/tone, and returned it, but it's still very interesting as he goes through wide set of subjects.

    Is is part 4- B&W

    Sigma Quattro DP2 Comparison – Part 4 – B&W | Landscape & Cityscape

    - Ricardo

  3. #103
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    For those interested, a photographer blog where he compared Quattro vs Merrill in 8 parts. His conclusion was that he feels the sensor design sacrificed some detail/contrast/tone, and returned it, but it's still very interesting as he goes through wide set of subjects.

    Is is part 4- B&W

    Sigma Quattro DP2 Comparison – Part 4 – B&W | Landscape & Cityscape

    - Ricardo
    I have to question the methodology of the "details" page in particular. There is something very wrong here.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  4. #104
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    I tried the Xitek EVF on the Quattro.

    It does not work of course.

    There is no video output from the USB port on the Quattro.

    It's for the cable release and to upload photos.

    I did notice a setting called "viewfinder mode" in one of the menus.

    Not quite sure what it is used for ?

    Anyway, I turned it on and it still did not help.

    Lot's more "real world" testing today.

  5. #105
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    >whatever this means

    Photo Pro allows to double the resolution and create about 60MP files. For the Quattros only Photo Pro allows to export 39MP files (but not for the Merrills). I think the 39MP version is a very realistic approach.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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  6. #106
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    I'm afraid I am confused by this and wonder if you would be so kind as to elaborate a bit.

    X3F files from my DPxM are about 44MB in size. A 16 bit Tiff is about 88MB.

    What exactly is the reference to 39MP and how does that translate as regards the size of a 16 bit Tiff.

    I have to confess that with the Merills I have never actually considered the pixel size - save that I note that printing an A3+ size tiff results in a ppi of about 240 in LR (which obviously is not the same thing but still of relevance).

    So in real terms, i.e. size of file and ppi when printing what does DPP 6.0x do for the Quattro files that it does not do for the Merrill files.

    Thanks for any clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >whatever this means

    Photo Pro allows to double the resolution and create about 60MP files. For the Quattros only Photo Pro allows to export 39MP files (but not for the Merrills). I think the 39MP version is a very realistic approach.

  7. #107
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    >X3F files from my DPxM are about 44MB in size. A 16 bit Tiff is about 88MB.

    Forget file size. I am talking pixel dimensions (defined here in mega pixels).
    Uwe Steinmueller
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  8. #108
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    It's a waste of time to export the larger sizes in SPP.

    I did a test, exported a normal and double size from SPP, enlarged the normal with PhotoZoom Pro and compared to the SPP double size, and PhotoZoom Pro was so much better, it was in a different universe.

    Even if you export a doublesize, then downsize it to same size, and compare it to an original same size, the original same size wins!

  9. #109
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Forget double size. Its S-HI that works best.

    I also have Photozoom Pro. Lanczos works pretty well. I am not keen on their S-Spline algorithms because they introduce a painterly effect.
    Last edited by Quentin_Bargate; 24th July 2014 at 15:08.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Hi Quentin, same thing goes for S-HI, IMO. Just a tad more definition from PZ Pro, and the enlargement is not that significant enough to cause the painterly vector look.

  11. #111
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    A few more comparisons from today's shooting.

    1st set are slightly different lighting.

    Setting are the same except the Quattro is on vivid instead of standard.

    All tripod mounted at F8.

    Set 1- Merrill, Quattro
    Set 2- Quattro, Merrill
    Set 3- Quattro, Merrill
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  12. #112
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    I have to question the methodology of the "details" page in particular. There is something very wrong here.
    Quentin - on a 2nd more careful look I have to agree. Seems almost as if he used a beta version of SPP (though some could argue that SPP is always in Beta :-) ).

    Yes, I don't consider it representative. It's too bad because the scenes he chose are indeed awesome for comparing. I wish he gave it another spin under latest SPP, and better yet- post the RAWS.

    So yes, I agree. Too many issues going on.

    - Ricardo

  13. #113
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    A few more comparisons from today's shooting.

    1st set are slightly different lighting.

    Setting are the same except the Quattro is on vivid instead of standard.

    All tripod mounted at F8.

    Set 1- Merrill, Quattro
    Set 2- Quattro, Merrill
    Set 3- Quattro, Merrill
    Bit difficult to judge on the relative small files. The Ute how do you perceive the difference? You saw the full scale files.
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  14. #114
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    Bit difficult to judge on the relative small files. The Ute how do you perceive the difference? You saw the full scale files.
    I think they are very close.

    Almost a matter of taste.

    I prefer the look of the Merrill and the value for the money.

    The Q is definitely an excellent camera though.

    You can't go wrong getting one.

    I might take the plunge w the DP1Q if the lens is sufficiently better.

  15. #115
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Cool....

  16. #116
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    I think they are very close.

    Almost a matter of taste.

    I prefer the look of the Merrill and the value for the money.

    The Q is definitely an excellent camera though.

    You can't go wrong getting one.

    I might take the plunge w the DP1Q if the lens is sufficiently better.
    This is my point since the start. Anybody in his right mind should not buy a camera who give only very few improvements over the previous model. The Quattro is just a new camera, an another direction, but IQ wise, the jump is just little compared to Merrills. In + the soft is just a piece of crap, really.

    So I recoup what L.Chambers said : Early buyers of Quattro are just beta testers. Nothing more, nothing less. Buying a gear in those conditions is like playing poker.

    My reaction is the same on Nikon gears. D800/D800E/D810 ... what the hell ?? The former D800 sharpened with talent is excellent.

    So we live in a time where we should jump DSLR/compact generations. I'll pass on Quattro. Let see in 4 years if real improvements come.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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  17. #117
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    None like Fuji have used their customers as beta testers. OK, they fixed the flaws along time, but anyhow they did what they did.

    I don't know if you guys noted Ming said a solution (for what I do not know) were ready next week?
    I do not know when their chat took place, so next week might be last week or?
    Last edited by G43; 25th July 2014 at 13:28.

  18. #118
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post

    So we live in a time where we should jump DSLR/compact generations. I'll pass on Quattro. Let see in 4 years if real improvements come.
    I've been thinking about this idea of jumping generations for sometime. I also will be passing on the Quattro.

    I do like the output to a degree if you take it by itself. Its only comparing it that I prefer my Merrills. In reality all the criticisms of the Merrills don't affect me except for the lack of EVF. I have no problems with battery life and even the write speed hampers me little.

  19. #119
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    ^^^ Ute's examples above ^^^

    The Quattro seems to have more saturation compared to the Merrill, which we know often deliver flat files that need a tweak in saturation.

    I assume these are straight out of the camera?

    LouisB

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    The "Beer Garden" shot guys - the one with the fuzzy yellow characters sure have been busy. They got now a new shot with same framing of the same shot with a yellow filter on top of the camera.

    Interesting thing is, the Yellow resolution comes back to the letters, but now there's color moire(!) on the fence on top of the building. First Foveon with color moire :-)

    This was predicted could happen by a few, I would imagine of a different nature than an AAless Bayer and it sure seems so- yellow alternating with luminance.

    (conversion mine, SPP 6.0.4 from RAW)


    The raws are here:

    Normal (but shows resolution loss in some yellows)
    http://ichigo-up.com/Sn4/download/1405776566.X3F
    With yellow filter (shows color moire, yellows look full resolution)
    http://ichigo-up.com/Sn4/download/1405772202.X3F

    For reference:

    The very original shot that started this that shows the issue of yellow resolution loss:

    The Quattro and the "Beer Garden" Issue

    I can only guess is that this particular cyanish blue at that luminance level makes it hard for the algorithm to discern detail for Yellow vs the Blue, given it needs to pick from two layers that are 1/4th the color resolution of the blue.

    - Ricardo

  21. #121
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    ^^^ Ute's examples above ^^^

    The Quattro seems to have more saturation compared to the Merrill, which we know often deliver flat files that need a tweak in saturation.

    I assume these are straight out of the camera?

    LouisB

    Yes.

    The Quattro is set for "Vivid" mode so that may be why the saturation looks greater.

  22. #122
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Tim-

    Their is an EVF available.

    I'm using it and works OK.

    Not perfect but acceptably.

    Go to the Xitek for Sigma thread I started and you can see for yourself.

    Hope that helps.

  23. #123
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    We are not "beta testers" if we know what we are doing.




    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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  24. #124
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    We are not "beta testers" if we know what we are doing.




    Wow! I am not a pixel peeper, just a simple visual artist that appreciates 'eye candy,' and these twizzle my visual senses.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

  25. #125
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Here's a few more w just the Quattro.

    All using optimum shooting technique.

    i.e., tripod, F8, etc.
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  26. #126
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    Wow! I am not a pixel peeper, just a simple visual artist that appreciates 'eye candy,' and these twizzle my visual senses.
    Thanks - taken yesterday, handheld. We are enjoying a good summer locally. My point of course is that we can get the look we want in post processing. My impression of the Quattro is it is more of a "blank canvas" than the Merrills, and therefore it is more up to the photographer what look he or she wants at the end of the day.
    Quentin Bargate
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  27. #127
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Two further Quattro shots



    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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  28. #128
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quentin,

    Lovely results. I think you should start a new thread, "DP Quattro Best Practices," where we could have the distilled wisdom of your, and other thoughtful users', findings -in one place.

    Please! :-)

    Rand

  29. #129
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Rand47 View Post
    Quentin,

    Lovely results. I think you should start a new thread, "DP Quattro Best Practices," where we could have the distilled wisdom of your, and other thoughtful users', findings -in one place.

    Please! :-)

    Rand
    Whereas the Merrill dictates the final look to some extent, that "blank canvas" you get with the Quattro shots is going to be a part of their success with the wider photographic community, in my opinion. More flexibilty, better colour, slightly higher resolution.

    Just printed a Quattro shot at about 24" x 36"(or at least part printed it) and it looks good enough to be large format. Pin sharp. Now if it and the DP1Q, when released, will do large prints, I'll be happy.

    Last edited by Quentin_Bargate; 27th July 2014 at 09:34.
    Quentin Bargate
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  30. #130
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    A few more comparisons from today's shooting.

    1st set are slightly different lighting.

    Setting are the same except the Quattro is on vivid instead of standard.

    All tripod mounted at F8.

    Set 1- Merrill, Quattro
    Set 2- Quattro, Merrill
    Set 3- Quattro, Merrill
    Wish I could see the files full sized

  31. #131
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    Wish I could see the files full sized
    I do not know how to post larger images.


  32. #132
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Dropbox link?

  33. #133
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    Dropbox link?
    I do not know what that is.

  34. #134
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    https://www.dropbox.com

    Very simple. Works like Google drive. Make an account. Upload some stuff and link to here.
    It's free of charge.

  35. #135
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    I do not know what that is.
    www.dropbox.com

    Basic accounts are free, Images saved in your "Public" folder are available - just "copy public link" and insert in your message.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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  36. #136
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Thanks Guys.

    Do they take TIFF's or only JPEGs ?

  37. #137
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Any file.

  38. #138
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    Any file.
    Thanks.

  39. #139
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    https://www.dropbox.com

    Very simple. Works like Google drive. Make an account. Upload some stuff and link to here.
    It's free of charge.
    I uploaded a few TIFF's to Dropbox

    I am not sure if I am giving you the correct links but here goes :

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/h3seqrg865...%20Merrill.tif
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lkp82zfx29...%20Quattro.tif
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lws3pz9gha...%20Merrill.tif
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrm3df6nj8...%20Quattro.tif
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/kb969webrr...in_Quattro.tif
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4zccw8prlh...in_merrill.tif

    My apologies if it does not work.

    I'm new at this.
    Last edited by The Ute; 28th July 2014 at 16:47.

  40. #140
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Works fine The Ute

    Quite a difference between the rendering of colors.

    Q shows green as grey, Forrest.
    M shows blue as green, Lake.

    Q has higher resolution.
    M shows better 3D pop.

    Anyways... there seems to be a time displacement between shots since the light is different between the shots.

    I never until now considered the price of the Q an object of concern. Many of you brought the matter forward here in the beginning. *Not worth the upgrade for the buck*.
    This seems correct in my eyes, but there are other things that matters: Speed.

    How do you like the rendering of the Q?
    Last edited by G43; 29th July 2014 at 00:36.

  41. #141
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    >Any file.

    I would use JPEG at larger sizes.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    ...other things that matters.....
    speed is just a word, compared to my Seneca my DP2m is really speedy, compared to my Nikon not so.:sleep006:

  43. #143
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    Works fine The Ute

    Quite a difference between the rendering of colors.

    Q shows green as grey, Forrest.
    M shows blue as green, Lake.

    Q has higher resolution.
    M shows better 3D pop.

    Anyways... there seems to be a time displacement between shots since the light is different between the shots.

    I never until now considered the price of the Q an object of concern. Many of you brought the matter forward here in the beginning. *Not worth the upgrade for the buck*.
    This seems correct in my eyes, but there are other things that matters: Speed.

    How do you like the rendering of the Q?
    The Q was set to Vivid and the M to Standard.

    That might account for some of the differences.

    That said, I do think the Q renders color a little more accurately but I can take care of most of what I want in PP.

    I agree w your general assessment that the M renders better better micro detail and contrast.

    It gives that "3d" look.

    The Q is an excellent camera though and new users won't be disappointed.

    I liked it's handling and usability better.

    I am thinking I'll check out the DP1Q when it arrives.

  44. #144
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Nice to hear you like the Q.

    No doubt the 1Q will satisfy a lot of landscape photographers. The resolution alone counts a lot.

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Q seems to lacks the 'bite', the main reason why I 'endure' my DP3 over my Nikon D600 which does not even come close for what i want.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/maxpac...7641285178255/
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  46. #146
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Max, your DP3 photos are ones of the best i ever seen out of the dp3. Congratulations.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Yes they are Masterclass

  48. #148
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Ute

    Thanks for posting these. Great photographs. And lovely examples to play around with.

    I feel my resistance to the DP1Q crumbling...

    LouisB

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Thanks Hulyss and G43, coming from you guys, it's quite a compliment.

    Hulyss, I had really liked your review of DP3 on LL, my decision to purchase it was based upon your review, and the many excellent photos I saw from Quentin, Ute, ustein and the others here.
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  50. #150
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Ute

    Thanks for posting these. Great photographs. And lovely examples to play around with.

    I feel my resistance to the DP1Q crumbling...

    LouisB

    Thanks. My pleasure.

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