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Thread: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

  1. #251
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    2. Similarly, Hulyss, old chap, you seem to have lost your marbles The DP2Q is not a "joke", but a very unusual and highly talented camera with a lot of faults you either can, or cannot, live with. I can live with them because the DP2Q is not my sole camera and I can turn to other cameras when the DP2Q is not optimal.
    .
    yes I lost my marbles Seriouselly, I do not find in the Quattro the organic glossy hyperrealist mood I found in the Merrill. You know I know PP but here I was unable to catch this ... soul or whatever.

    The Merrill spoiled me, and spoil me even today with the DP3. I wanted more, far more. Maybe its time for SIGMA to invest risks and money to really develop it. I just want a normal FF foveon

    Anyway, I do not want to disturb the thread anymore with this. Whatever camera in good hands give good photos (But I'm just verbal because in 2014 sigma can do better if they invest money).
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

  2. #252
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    ... I just want a normal FF foveon...
    a Merrill with say 25MP
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  3. #253
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Hi Hulyss

    I known what you mean. My personal dream would be an improved, full frame (same pixel density) DSLR using the Merrill sensor. Frankly a full frame Quattro would also be good. Maybe the reduced payload of a Quattro design might enable a full frame version in a future dslr, with improved image quality to boot.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  4. #254
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Greetings!

    I'm a newbie here. Just purchased my DP2 Quattro on Saturday. I want to extend a huge thanks to Quentin for all of his helpful information. His information has certainly helped me get started finding the ways to get the best out of the camera. Having used to the camera myself for hundreds of shots, I can really confirm his perspective within the limits of my experience with camera and limits of my knowledge of photgraphy.

    1. The purple and green splotches are quite the nuisance and not always predictable.
    2. The SPP software is so slow, I wonder if it's computing weather forecasts on the side.
    3. The dynamic range compared to most cameras is still not great and the default settings for boosting shadows often don't yield nice results.
    4. The image quality in the right conditions is truly beautiful.
    5. Though not a camera for action, I found the handling excellent and the speed of the camera operations to be "okay."
    6. Resolution of images at ISO 100 in good light far, far better than my only other digital camera, a Sony Alpha55.
    7. When I pixel peep, to borrow the cliche, it looks far more like a film negative than a digital image...made my Sony's output remind me of video captures.
    8. Decreasing the sharpness a tad in SPP generally yields better results for me.
    9. The S-HI TIFFs seem to have some effective interpolation compared to the HI TIFFs.
    10. Lots of people comment on the camera.
    11. Using SPP 6.05 and Firmware 1.01, with a 45 mbs 64GB SanDisk SD card.

    I will post some more later.

    Regards,
    Jon
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  5. #255
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Jon

    Thanks for the kind words. I agree with all you say about the Quattro / SPP. All we need from you now are some shots!
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  6. #256
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    I live less than 2 miles from this gorge so I visit frequently to take photos. A lot of tourists there this time of year, but they thin out when the children are back in school. I've shot these scenes with just about every camera in my arsenal over the years, including all 3 merrills. I made some large panels a couple of years ago (20x40 inch gallery wraps) from stitched images taken with the DP3M on a Gigapan 100 that were beautiful and actually better than some of my old 4x5 film images.
    Yes, I've been to Buttermilk many times and I love it. I grew up near Cortland. I still go up 2 or 3 times a year to visit my parents and friends. We often come to Ithaca. In fact I was there visiting for the 4th of July week for some winery fireworks and some hiking at Taughannock. I think I posted an image from there in the Monochrome Foveon thread.
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  7. #257
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by gnuyork View Post
    Yes, I've been to Buttermilk many times and I love it. I grew up near Cortland. I still go up 2 or 3 times a year to visit my parents and friends. We often come to Ithaca. In fact I was there visiting for the 4th of July week for some winery fireworks and some hiking at Taughannock. I think I posted an image from there in the Monochrome Foveon thread.
    Yes, I saw the image taken below the falls. Makes me shudder when I see people in the plunge pool and around the edges. There have been several fatalities there, both from drowning in the undertow and from rock slides.

    Rock Slide
    Carl
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  8. #258
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by octagone View Post
    A detail 100% - 39 Mpix biccubic in photoshop, from a photo of Cho.
    Click on the picture after the current page.

    There appears to be a browser color management issue when viewing Noel's link to my image (he was experimenting with interpolation) on his sharing website above. The colors look OK in Firefox, but way off in Safari (7.0.6) on my MBA. Does anyone know what might be causing this? Screen grab below with Firefox on left and Safari on right.

    Carl
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  9. #259
    Member Arjuna's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    On my older MBP (matte screen, calibrated), the colours are very similar, but the Firefox version is clearly sharper. Safari (7.0.6) is my normal browser, but I may give Firefox a try now.

  10. #260
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    I compared the performance of my DP2Q and my Sony Alpha55 16mp. The shots were taken with a tripod, using auto-exposure bracketing and Raw mode. They were taken at nearly the same time, but there were slight differences in light and where the cameras did the bracketing. Both cameras have APS-C sensors. I used a Sony 30mm F2.8 Macro lens on the Sony, the inexpensive one that doesn't cover full frame. The DP2Q also has a 30mm F2.8 lens. Both lens were set to F5.6. Both of these shots were at -0.3 EV, but the DP2 used 1/500 of a second and the Sony used 1/800 of a second.

    I used SPP 6.05 with default settings to export a JPEG. I used the Sony Image Data Converter SR ver. 3 to export a JPEG. I then used GIMP to scale the images to 800x1200. I used GIMP to take crops of the same size as well. This means the Sony crops show slightly more than the DP2Q crops given different native output resolution, but I felt scaling might disadvantage one camera or the other. It was a scene of convenience shot out of my open window. There was a little haze, unfortunately. I hope these files aren't too big.

    Let me know what you folks think.

    Regards,
    Jon

  11. #261
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    I have included some links to nine full-sized JPEGs out of my DPQ2, and one from my Sony Alpha55 (from my comparison in the post above). I converted them all from raw, with default settings, except white balance in a couple. They're not the most artistic of shots, but I hope they show more about what the camera can do before one even applies any skill or editing time.

    They are all in a Public Folder on Dropbox:

    DP2Q Test

    I am debating whether I should buy Adobe Lightroom or something similar. Any recommendations?

    Regards,
    Jon

  12. #262
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Whirling,
    Lightroom will not process the Sigma files, only the Sigma photo pro software will - much to our disappointment. The best workflow I have found is to shoot jpg plus raw, copy the whole lot to a directory, use Lightroom to evaluate the jpg's, and then process the few candidates in the dreadfully slow Sigma software. I find this to be much better/faster than trying to evaluate images in SPP.
    Shaun O'Boyle
    new.oboylephoto.com

  13. #263
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by soboyle View Post
    Whirling,
    Lightroom will not process the Sigma files, only the Sigma photo pro software will - much to our disappointment. The best workflow I have found is to shoot jpg plus raw, copy the whole lot to a directory, use Lightroom to evaluate the jpg's, and then process the few candidates in the dreadfully slow Sigma software. I find this to be much better/faster than trying to evaluate images in SPP.
    Shaun,

    Thanks so much for answering my question. I am aware I have to do the initial conversion with Sigma Photo Pro, so it was exactly for the uses that you state that I'm considering Lightroom.

    Regards,
    Jon

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  15. #265
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Anyone doing B&W work with the Quattro yet?
    I'm wondering about best practice for processing for B&W - export a color tif to lightroom for conversion, or is there an advantage to working the raw file in SPP which will take advantage of the unique layered sensor?
    Shaun O'Boyle
    new.oboylephoto.com

  16. #266
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Recent tropical weather has the plants growing tall. I can't see over the cattails along the lake shore.

    Carl
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  17. #267
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    A first few with the DP2Q. All jpeg and converted in Silver Effex Pro2.

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lasf8y4vl...1QqhGNaja?dl=0

  18. #268
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    a taiwanese review (use google translate if you are interested in the written content)

    細節 從未妥協Sigma dp2 Quattro - Mobile01 本站新聞
    Keep It Simple.
    XQ2 / A7r / 15mm / 25mm / 28-35-50mm
    EOS M3 / 18-35mm

  19. #269
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Instead of reviewing the DP2Q I wish they would give us the scoop on when the DP1Q will be available.

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  20. #270
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    One area where the DP2Q falls flat on its face is with longer exposures, particularly if underexposed slightly. The purple / cyan blotchiness rears is ugly head in spades. As these blotches are much larger than individual photosites, I am surprised Sigma appear unable to deal with them.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  21. #271
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Is anyone using a Hoodman Loupe on the DP2Q LCD? Does it fit well?
    Shaun O'Boyle
    new.oboylephoto.com

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    One area where the DP2Q falls flat on its face is with longer exposures, particularly if underexposed slightly. The purple / cyan blotchiness rears is ugly head in spades. As these blotches are much larger than individual photosites, I am surprised Sigma appear unable to deal with them.
    I have been experimenting with trying to avoid the blotches, but have not found a way yet. They appear in medium gray areas mainly. I've wondered if one put a tinted filter on the lens and then edited that tint out later whether that would help. I know that would hurt the overall color response, but it might be worth it if it were to work. Also, I wonder if somebody could develop a quick and easy method in post-processing to deal with them: select an area and remove purple and green hues that deviate from the average, usually gray, hue.

    My ultimate fantasy would, of course, just be for Sigma to release a firmware and/or SPP update that eliminated them...or even an option to eliminate them at some small cost to other qualities of the image.

    Do the blotches appear when images are printed at say 17 inches wide?

    Regards,
    Jon

  23. #273
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Living curves

    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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  24. #274
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Jon, the blotchiness is rampant in underexposed (even correctly exposed) grey areas - check out a grey tarmac road surface, as an example - also greenish grey. Sigma have to find a fix at it seems to be some sort of processing error given it is not confined to single pixels or even groups of pixels. Not checked in print as yet.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Perhaps my question here is out of proper timing since Sigma didn't come to the final SPP version yet. But how do you general feel the things are going? Is the DPQ series in the end going to wipe the floor under the DPM's?

  26. #276
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    Perhaps my question here is out of proper timing since Sigma didn't come to the final SPP version yet. But how do you general feel the things are going? Is the DPQ series in the end going to wipe the floor under the DPM's?
    That will never happen.

  27. #277
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    Perhaps my question here is out of proper timing since Sigma didn't come to the final SPP version yet. But how do you general feel the things are going? Is the DPQ series in the end going to wipe the floor under the DPM's?
    Who knows? The DP2Q is an extraordinary mixture of excellence and incompetence. In the right conditions, its better than the DP2M. Its a medium format camera in your jacket pocket. The right conditions generally mean plenty of light. Outside its comfort zone, it crashes and burns. If sigma have put their eggs in the Quattro basket, they must have a game plan to deal with the flaws otherwise it might be a dead end.
    Quentin Bargate
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  28. #278
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    I believe the Merrill is a medium format in the pocket as well.

    And has other qualities that the Q's may never reach.

    You are entitled to your opinion but please don't overstate the comparison Quentin.

    The differences are not extreme in either direction IMO.

  29. #279
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    I tell it how I see it. The Merills are also MF cameras in your pocket. I'm still undecided which set of quirks one can most easily live with.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  30. #280
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    I tell it how I see it. The Merills are also MF cameras in your pocket. I'm still undecided which set of quirks one can most easily live with.
    That sounds fair.

    And I do exactly the same.

    Looking forward to that DP1Q.

    Hoping the news lens design ups the ante.

    The DP1M was a bit soft in the corners.

    I'm greedy. I like perfection.


  31. #281
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quentin

    About the excellent performance in bright daylight, isn't it all the same as with the DPMs?
    Bright light or drown in shadow noise,

  32. #282
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    The DP1M was a bit soft in the corners.
    I'm greedy. I like perfection.
    Yes perfection is a pleasure by itself. I however saw some very very nice landscape shots that with a little care about gradient sharpening and curves brought up the corners nicely. Was hard to see the lens is soft at edges.
    The same guy showed me also 7 stitched verticals for a landscape shot.
    Doiiing

  33. #283
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    The Merrills changed my photographic direction for over a year. I took a Moroccan vacation just to use the DP2M and DP1M and came back with some of my best work. The DP2M is possibly the best camera for stitched panos I have ever used - the stitching software loves it because its sharp edge to edge. Much as I like a lot about the Quattro, it is not the big step forward we were all anticipating. More a shuffle forwards and half a step back.
    Quentin Bargate
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  34. #284
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Well I guess it is so Quentin. I am not a camera professor, but since I saw the first Q files I thought: Is this going to take out the M's and do it with glamour?
    I saw it got better along the FW and RAW conversion SW updates. But I guess it was merely flaws that were corrected.

    Perhaps in all cruelty we are facing a flawed sensor .. given it should beat the prior. That happens in the industry.

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Whirling View Post
    Let me know what you folks think.
    Without beeing harsh IMO you should compare your Sony to a DP2 pre- merrill.

  36. #286
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Essentially I have too many cameras . Been out and about today in Cornwall with a Nikon D810, various lenses (but only used the 24mm PC-E), and the Quattro. The Hassy sits, unused, due to weight. There is always a trade-off between weight and performance. That's why the Merrills/Quattro promise so much.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    Without beeing harsh IMO you should compare your Sony to a DP2 pre- merrill.
    To be a little more clear, if I wasn't sufficiently so before, the Sony Alpha 55 and Sigma DP2 Quattro are the only cameras I have, so that's why I compared the two. I was also fortunate to have a lens of the same focal length and maximum aperature for the Sony. If you don't find the comparison of any use to you, then so be it.

    As this is the Sigma forum, I didn't make any effort to show all the situations where my 3-year-old Sony Alpha55 will produce better results than the Quattro. I do like the Quattro, but, especially with the purple and green splotches, the places where it is useful are rather limited.

    Again, as I stated above, I'm mainly keeping the Quattro with the hopes that new firmware and SPP updates will fix more limits of the camera.

    Regards,
    Jon

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    @ Quentin.
    Yeap.. buying power often leads to that! You got perhaps (no pretty sure) the very best DSLR Bayer based sensor camera exciting at the moment, close and in some sense better than Pentax 645Z given the Nikon is offered the very best glass.
    I have the exact same issue with the bulk of the different systems. I cannot carry all that heavy gear anymore.

    It brings us back to the ideal solution. 3 or 4 fixed lens compact cameras that outbeats the rest. Trust me the industry CAN make it, but will not.

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    The Merrills changed my photographic direction for over a year. I took a Moroccan vacation just to use the DP2M and DP1M and came back with some of my best work. The DP2M is possibly the best camera for stitched panos I have ever used - the stitching software loves it because its sharp edge to edge. Much as I like a lot about the Quattro, it is not the big step forward we were all anticipating. More a shuffle forwards and half a step back.
    I am curious about this. What is the half step back you see with the Quattro? I think both the Merrill and the Quattro have major quirks in equal parts. The Quattro actually to me has more consistency of color, but I also think at full resolution it uses the "Foveon bite" look and many other cameras match in a way the color look.

    I would shoot the Quattro in low res RAW for color. What I did not expect is that the black and white stayed the same as the Merrill for high ISO work.

    But basically I see both cameras with serious quirks that I do not consider overall, the Quattro above Merrill or the Merrill above Quattro, though I am inclined to go Quattro if I had to pick.


    - Ricardo

  40. #290
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Just a heads up for those who may not know.

    New Firmware and a new version of SPP are out.

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Wow! It appears the new firmware and SPP updates are substantial. In a way, the Quattro has been "Merrill-ized." The grain structure looks completely different as well. Errors in red areas have been fixed. People are saying it's "noisier" but it looks like the Merrill grain in some ways.

    SPP 6.05: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kazua0...52758/sizes/o/
    SPP 6.06: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kazua0...54408/sizes/o/

  42. #292
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by rjp85 View Post
    Wow! It appears the new firmware and SPP updates are substantial. In a way, the Quattro has been "Merrill-ized." The grain structure looks completely different as well. Errors in red areas have been fixed. People are saying it's "noisier" but it looks like the Merrill grain in some ways.

    SPP 6.05: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kazua0...52758/sizes/o/
    SPP 6.06: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kazua0...54408/sizes/o/
    You can't "Merrillize" the Quattro.

    The sensor structure is completely different.

    All they must be doing is trying to correct the Quattro's flaws.

    Just as they did w the Merrills.

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Indeed they burned in another Input/output contrast curve. Digital color and luminescent equalization is triggy.

  44. #294
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    "trying to correct the Quattro's flaws."

    Isn't that the point?

    That's why I put "Merrill-ize" in quotes. A Quattro will never be a Merrill, but these latest updates actually change the very nature of the image quality. I would say that's significant. I think they're on the right track.

    Look at the difference between the red and black banner that says "45 digital"

    old: http://maros-images.sakura.ne.jp/tec...ap_4dp2m_2.jpg

    latest updates: http://maros-images.sakura.ne.jp/tec...m_2_spp606.jpg

  45. #295
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by rjp85 View Post
    "trying to correct the Quattro's flaws."

    Isn't that the point?

    That's why I put "Merrill-ize" in quotes. A Quattro will never be a Merrill, but these latest updates actually change the very nature of the image quality. I would say that's significant. I think they're on the right track.

    Look at the difference between the red and black banner that says "45 digital"
    What it tells me is R&D Camera HW and R&D SW within the Sigma lives in separate worlds. It's a long time since I saw a customer/user paid field test taken so far...

  46. #296
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by rjp85 View Post
    "trying to correct the Quattro's flaws."

    Isn't that the point?

    That's why I put "Merrill-ize" in quotes. A Quattro will never be a Merrill, but these latest updates actually change the very nature of the image quality. I would say that's significant. I think they're on the right track.

    Look at the difference between the red and black banner that says "45 digital"

    old: http://maros-images.sakura.ne.jp/tec...ap_4dp2m_2.jpg

    latest updates: http://maros-images.sakura.ne.jp/tec...m_2_spp606.jpg

    I understand what you meant but my point still stands.

    The Quattro will not have the detail and microcontrast of the Merrill no matter how they tweak it due to the differences in the sensor structure.

    It will always have it's own unique look which may or may not be as good as the Merrill's depending on your taste.

  47. #297
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    What it tells me is R&D Camera HW and R&D SW within the Sigma lives in separate worlds. It's a long time since I saw a customer/user paid field test taken so far...

  48. #298
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Oh sorry .. they had this loaner offer on trial too, just adding up the field test business approach. If it works .. it works

  49. #299
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    I remember how all this started here in this 'mini' Merrill forum. (There are other cameras here too).
    Merrill owners happy/unhappy with their sucking Merrills UI/SPP and what do I know clumsy camera issues and hoping the Quattro were the answer to all prayers. You know what Sigma.. you should listen to your devoted Foveon users and answer their dreams. Really.
    I've not seen a product loyalty anywhere else except Leica users express. Period.
    Is there more to say at this moment?

  50. #300
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by G43 View Post
    I remember how all this started here in this 'mini' Merrill forum. (There are other cameras here too).
    Merrill owners happy/unhappy with their sucking Merrills UI/SPP and what do I know clumsy camera issues and hoping the Quattro were the answer to all prayers. You know what Sigma.. you should listen to your devoted Foveon users and answer their dreams. Really.
    I've not seen a product loyalty anywhere else except Leica users express. Period.
    Is there more to say at this moment?
    My loyalty is directly related to the image quality. As long as that is maintained or improved I will stay on board.

    Everyone who uses a Sigma compact camera should be well aware of it's limitations and quirks by now.

    As I said above, The price for putting up with the quirks, etc. is stunning image quality in a bite-sized package, and at a ridiculously affordable price (at least for the Merrill's).


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