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Thread: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

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    Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    What other versatile and relatively compact gear do Foveon shooters put into their average travel bag next to the DPMs without being disappointed with the file quality. I tried (too) many (XT-1 mft, A7, A7s), but file quality wise none could really convince me. The A7r comes close, but it is not solving my issue, as its strengths mostly overlap with the Merrills (landscapes, cityscapes, stills) rather than complementing them. Looking forward to your thoughts.

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Life gets easier if one doesn't print and takes mostly close-up shots for the Wife's eBay stuff. I own the Foveon-powered Polaroid X530, Sigma SD9, SD10, and SD14. No DP anything. It will come as no surprise that I am quite satisfied with a Panasonic GH1 + 14-45mm, 45-200mm and the excellent Leica 45mm macro.

    At 75, I have absolutely no patience for SPP's glacial processing of Merrill files and, lately, the sheer ease of use of the Panasonic is becoming more attractive.

    Ted
    Last edited by xpatUSA; 20th January 2015 at 23:03. Reason: clarified the X530

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    What other versatile and relatively compact gear do Foveon shooters put into their average travel bag...
    Akkus

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    Akkus
    Not a bad idea as they work for the Ricoh GR as well.

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Panasonic m43 (GH3/GH1 and GX1) used largely for the excellent video options and photographically also for ease of use from time to time which is mainly for product pics for auction site selling and other mundane purposes!!

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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    What other versatile and relatively compact gear do Foveon shooters put into their average travel bag next to the DPMs without being disappointed with the file quality. I tried (too) many (XT-1 mft, A7, A7s), but file quality wise none could really convince me. The A7r comes close, but it is not solving my issue, as its strengths mostly overlap with the Merrills (landscapes, cityscapes, stills) rather than complementing them. Looking forward to your thoughts.
    I tried and owned the material you mention. Foveon do have this super clear IQ you can't really find in another "well priced and compact" camera. That said, it is not an optimal camera, even for landscapes.

    The common sense of a Sigma power shooter would be upgrading in an Alpa 12TC with old back and a second hand Rodi lens. Some of you can, most of you can't.

    Mrs Winsome crossed my road one day and told me that I should back pedal big time to appreciate more photography and not focussing on photography tools.

    Then, you realise that "compactness", EVF, "sharpness" and so on are just a fashion and, at the end, expensive.

    I, so far, prefer shooting with a D700 and some primes than any other gear. Details are secondary in a picture. Printing large is occasional for most of you and 12MP are sufficient for most of you. 12 MP can be printed A2/A0 with ease and care. This printings will not force shock your eyes, they will be pleasing. 12 MP are cool to edit and stock.

    So yea, the D700 is not light but you forget it, at the end. The ease of framing and the immense versatility of this body are key points. Plug a 16-35 f4 ED VR on it for your landscape works and you will forget forums. Need reach ? Just add a 180mm f2.8 ED in your bag just in case or a light good zoom like the 24-120 f4 ED VR.

    Versatility, unification of the PP pipeline and of course, pleasing pictures without any defaults apart being 12 MP... which is not a default at the end.

    So yea, the A7s is kinda prototype but if they do an A7sII with ibis ... then we have a champ. This + a zoom, a second hand Leica lens with adapter and you're good for a while.

    So foveon ?? Actually no, thanks. It's an anomaly that I use only occasionally today. As XpatUsa said, SPP is just a wreckage of code, a wreckage of time and energy. All this energy should be used to lug around real cameras, like D700
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Viewer acceptance is a variable thing. We all use our own eyes and brains. There is no right or wrong.... But to answer the OP question. I carry a GR with my DP2M. I have a DP3 but it has not seen much use yet. The GR can disappoint but not often and its good in low light.

    I have seen many an image from the A7r that I would on occasion say is superior to a DP2M (IMHO) because of the perceived colour accuracy to my eyes. But I don't own one yet. I very much like the Sony RX1, I suspect the lens has a lot to say here.

    I also like the output from the Pentax 654D, again, its just my eyes like what it sees.

    You can experience all these looking though Flickr.

    I still think the original DP2 remains one of the best image makers ever, even over the Merrills. It lacks the extreme resolution, and its results were a little hit and miss with more hits. I sometimes take Med or Low res on my DP2M to simulate the DP2. Works ok.

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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    I'm using the A7r and/or Nex7 w Zeiss 55 1.8 and Samyang 14mm along w the DP1M.
    Liking the results.
    Looking forward to the new 28/21mm FE prime.
    I also hung on to a DP2Q.

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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    I very much like the Sony RX1...
    Ho yea I forgot about him. The RX1 is a very good camera indeed.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    I couldn't get past the software which always sucked. However, many pros I know love them. I'll stick with film until the bugs are worked out...it's faster!
    My other small camera is the amazing XT1 and soon a XT100t with a 1/2000th flash sync, so perhaps the XT100t could double as a studio portrait cam too. I'd love to try the Q's, but I've heard that they don't quite render like the original Merrill

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    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    I guess a Hasselblad H5D-200MS is probably not quite compact enough . But what it does do - at least in multishot mode- is give true RGB colour, bit like a massive 50mp or 200mp Foveon sensor. Thing is, if you put a DP2m or DP3m on a pano head, you can get similar quality to the Hasselblad at a tiny fraction of the cost for appropriate subjects and without worrying as much about subject movement. Otherwise its a Sony A7r with various lenses.

    It is also interesting to ponder what camera I would choose if I could only have one (and I have far too many). It would be hard to resist the DP2M.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Dp2M is the most compact & light one in my bag. Weight hasn't been an issue for me yet. Frankly, I can make all my cameras deliver disappointing results in file quality or make one shine, while the other ashamed of its output. DP Merrills, for example, can't do sports or handheld low-light color shots decently. That's where your other Bayer type camera can excel above and beyond the Merrills. I'm not even touching the availability of ultra-fast glass... To answer the OP question, DP is accompanied with either a850 or P67.

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    The Merrills have slowly become my main cameras. Sometimes they are a pain to use but I like that they force a shooting discipline.
    I usually have one or two of them in my bag alongwith an X100s or an E-P5 for casual shooting.
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    OMD E-M1 and a few lenses for lower light and moving subject shots.

    I had others cameras but they have now all gone incl an Xpan!

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    I now mainly shoot with my A7r and now also an A7s. The main reason is versatility, e.g. the ability to mount FE glass and also Leica M primes.

    Now, if only Sigma would do us all a favour an make the next DPxM/Q series an APC compact with a proper mount so that third parties would make us all the adapter we want then I would be in heaven.

    I must admit that since acquiring the A7r I have notice how much noisier the DP2 and 3M I have is. That said, I still can't consider selling the Sigma's they are such a big bang for the buck it really is a no brainer.

    LouisB

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    ALPA TC + SK 28 + Hasselblad CFV-50c.
    Although not super compact, but much more compact than my ALPA Max plus lenses.
    I also use my Linhof 6x9 variable focus viewfinder with the TC and DPMs.
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    So foveon ?? Actually no, thanks. It's an anomaly that I use only occasionally today. As XpatUsa said, SPP is just a wreckage of code, a wreckage of time and energy. All this energy should be used to lug around real cameras, like D700 [/QUOTE]

    Oooo, I think you are being a bit harsh on the Sigmas. The DPMs are troublesome, difficult and frustrating. But at times, they can and do deliver incredible pictures. And for that, I will forgive them every time.

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    I brought into Canon Full frame and Olympus m4/3, also have many film 35mm and 4x5 prior to the set of three Merrill Dp's. I have hardly used anything other than film and the Foveon since the purchase.
    I am puzzled here, one being I have the Nex 5n, that is what I call a disaster. Slow is an under estimate, the Dp's are lightening fast compared to that Sony.
    The biggest puzzle being SPP, ok I have a self build windows based pc Asus P9x79-EWS , with the workstation mother board i7 [email protected] 3.70GHz which is a compromise CPU on the board and only 16GB, love to see how it behaves with 64GB) , but SPP from 5.3 through all iterations of SPP6 have been nimbble and certainly not slow, loads fine with sliders reacting in real time. I do read the problems some have on their platforms though.
    So no excuse here not to use the Merril's at anything they are suited for.
    Last edited by adrewdecourcy; 25th January 2015 at 07:00.
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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Of course the DPm are cool. But today, I wanted an upgrade with the Q and it is not. We have too much good gear around and I prefer so far taking photos than trying to take photos "in a range of limitations". It is ok for one time but at the end, to be polite, it sux. There is so many little cameras out there who can give very good results, and it is increasing. So either Sigma return to serious niche business either I will not push anyone to continue to buy subpar products. At the end I want ppl to be happy, not masochists.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Enough with the Sigma bashing as it is getting old and boring.

    I am no expert, but have been a photographic artist my entire work life, and I thank Sigma every day I look at my Foveon work for investing in the technology when no one else would. I have owned and used a lot of expensive gear, but there is no small camera to this day that will replace my three DPMs, and I can have pretty much whatever I need or want regarding cameras.

    If someone is not currently using these cameras, please be kind enough not to vomit negativity across a thread that others would otherwise contribute positive information to.

    Thank you in advance,
    Darr
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Well said, Darr!
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post

    If someone is not currently using these cameras, please be kind enough not to vomit negativity across a thread that others would otherwise contribute positive information to.

    Thank you in advance,
    Darr
    I may be wrong but I think your comment is aimed at Hulyss. His posts on this thread are full of frustration and added frustration because the Quattro seems to have a question mark hanging over it, whereas. it should have incrementally started to address the shortcomings of the Merrills.

    One thing that Hulyss cannot be accused of is not having used the camera. It was Hulyss' beautiful photos and enthusiasm that got me, as a total amateur, using the DP2Merrill.

    I think this thread is excellent because it acknowledges that the Sigma shines in specific conditions and seeks feedback on a companion camera for where the Sigma hits a wall.
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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    The topic of this thread is: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear; can we stick to the topic and not use it as a springboard for negative commentary?
    Thank you.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com
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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Quote Originally Posted by furtle View Post

    One thing that Hulyss cannot be accused of is not having used the camera. It was Hulyss' beautiful photos and enthusiasm that got me, as a total amateur, using the DP2Merrill.
    +1 +DP3M

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Just to be contrary, I have gone back to shooting with the Merrills. I also shoot with the A7r and various lenses, but I am like a drug addict, I can't kick the Sigma Merrill habit. What a tragedy, therefore, that the Quattros have proved to be weak beer in comparison.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    I'm still shooting with Merrill and sorry if I camp on my positions. I'm straight. I've flooded French forums since 2009 and American forums since 2010 with thousands of Sigma photos from almost all Sigma models. I'm a quite big consumer of Sigma gear but when something go wrong, especially with today brands, it should be voiced hard. Most of you jumped into sigma territory because of Merrill but some of us shoot sigma since prime ages so we see the evolution, in good or bad.

    The Japanese brands often never listen. If you want them to give at least 10% attention you need to be a vast crowd (this isn't the case in sigma land) or to be kinda vocal, as I am. I do it, even if I feel alone and nobody care. I care about IQ and Merrill are discontinued.

    Once your precious Merrill dead, by natural death or accident, your IQ and wow/fun effect will go to oblivion. I'm just anticipating the future.

    Sorry for hijacking the thread, really. But I want Sigma to come public about Quattro problems, addressing the issue, tacking responsibility. Some bought the DPQ with high expectations and came back deceived about IQ... which is one if not the only point of owning whatever sigma gear today : flawless IQ at base ISO.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    The title of the thread itself kind of opens up the debate and the critique of Sigma. Hence the "other gear" reference. I too am disappointed in the Q's and find the Merrils to be quirky, and rather clumsy. They do produce stunning files, for those who like the slower pace, but just because the sensor is different from the bayer array doesn't mean the cameras shouldn't perform to a more normal, up to date standard, so to speak, and that includes the transfer of images too. Obviously, these are not meant to be a primary camera, so the "other gear" reference is valid,but sometimes a little critique is helpful in giving companies feedback on their products.

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    I would be more than happy to jump back onto SD1m if they can add liveview to it. SD1m + 18-35 F1.8
    Keep It Simple.
    XQ2 / A7r / 15mm / 25mm / 28-35-50mm
    EOS M3 / 18-35mm

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    As a support group we start the "Sigma listen to us" thread,
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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    In fairness to the thread my other gear is a (Chamonix 4x5), XT1 (x100t), and numerous vintage rigs from the 1930's/40's and 50's. Other cameras owned in and around the time I had the DP1m, we're an Ebony 4x5, mamiya RZ,D800, A7.
    One could consider the DPM's to be a MFD point and shoot.
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Maybe a instax camera is a worthwhile ponder, or some film camera, as a companion needs to do something the merrils can't really

    I've used a lomo fisheye with them, similar size but way lighter and instant focus cos theres no focus or exposure

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    I also use Nikon D600 + Nikkor 50mm 1.4G (it can't touch my DP3M in some aspects of image quality in my opinion). But let me narrate my experience...

    On a trip to Rajasthan, India, I brought both cameras but it was so cumbersome to use both (the results were excellent for both). So, on my trip to Turkey, I only brought the DP3M...and regretted it. It was such a bother to use, especially with the tripod, the viewfinder loupe, the constant changing of batteries etc. I could not shoot in a lot of places I wanted to. So I was cursing myself on bringing the wrong camera to the trip...should have got my D600.

    That all changed when I saw the photos. They came out absolutely great, even some of the handheld ones shot at ISO400. So it turned out to be a good photo trip after all.

    Istanbul
    DP3M1769 by maxx.pace, on Flickr

    DP3M1887 - Lanterns in Istanbul by maxx.pace, on Flickr



    So really speaking I've resigned myself to bringing both cameras if I don't want to compromise. Maybe a very good bag will make it easier to use both and switch quickly (suggestions welcome).

    On another note, am actually very excited with the news of the new 50MP Canon 5DS R. Just saw some samples...still evaluating it and hoping for Nirvana...but don't think we're there yet.

    Canon 5DS Sample (large files)
    http://canon-premium.webcdn.stream.n...wnloads/01.jpg

    http://canon-premium.webcdn.stream.n...wnloads/02.jpg
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    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Unimpressed by the Canon sample files. Happy with the kit I already have.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  34. #34
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Unimpressed by the Canon sample files. Happy with the kit I already have.
    How about the Sony version ?

    Think you might be impressed w that ?


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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    I sometimes bring along my Leica X1. The Sigma destroys it as far as image quality, but when I run out of battery, the X1 is there. What I really like about the X1- the dials for aperture and shutter speed, and a button for iso. Also iso 1600 is very useable.

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    for dslr and merril, then optech utility sling for the dslr, with a 3/8ths connector at about 5 to 6 inch length instead of the short uni loop it comes with, and the merril or other small camera on a neck strap over the top. id recommend the optech mirrorless strap, its softer than there other stuff

    they got a new utility sling duo, but ive not tried that yet, would be a good option too i guess.

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Here is a list of my equpment in chronological order
    1. Sigma SD10 SLR - used a lot with sigma's and other manual lenses. Heavy and limiting. Sold
    2. Pentax k5 - do not like the outpout images. Lens broken after falling on stone. , sold
    3. Kodak SLR\c - In fact i had two of them (one as a spare). Used with canon L lenses and 35mm 1.4 Samyang lens. Both with broken hot shoe. Sold to get money for Phase one.
    4. Canon 1Ds Mark II - good, but heavy. Sold to get money for Phase one.
    5. Sigma DP2X - great. Sold to get money dp2m.
    6. Sigma DP2M - great but couldn't get all from files at that moment. Sold to get money for Phase One.
    5. Phase One P25 + 2xHasselblad C500 + lots of good lenses, good, but heavy and too old. Sold.
    6. Fujifilm x-pro1 - good one, used for panoraming with manual lenses, but after all, i don't like artificial taste of images.
    7. Back to foveon Sigma dp1m, dp3m - used a lot, especially dp1m. Sold to get quattro

    8. Now i only have one Sigma DP2Q , planning to buy Sigma 140s flash. Sometimes i borrow Fuji M1 from my daughter to do panoramic images.

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Just an observation...I thought the OP was talking about what other gear do we carry with us along with the Sigma... not a list of all of our gear.


    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    What other versatile and relatively compact gear do Foveon shooters put into their average travel bag next to the DPMs without being disappointed with the file quality.

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    On holidays i always carry dp2m and RicohGR.
    To be honest: I didnt use my DSLR for a VEEERY long time now. Aside from some pass-photos i took for family members.

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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    I have an Oly OMD E-M1. Just a little test using the Voigtlander 42.5mm F0.95 lens against the DP3M. I did a bit of size adjustment (not very well) to account for the different lenses and both are about a 80% crop.

    The E-M1 starts to suffer at 100% crop whereas the DP3M is still good. It's not supposed to be a scientific test just a simple comparison. I think the DP3M wins in this light.

    This is the E-M1



    and this is the DP3M


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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    After some recent buying and selling, my main Sigma is a SD14. "Other gear" is now wife's Panasonic DMC-LX7. Also have a DP1s but don't use it much.

    Ted

  42. #42
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Last holiday I took my DP2M and GR. That time I never wanted for much more.
    The DP2M got most of the action. With careful handheld use if I use the right technique and light is good I can almost emulate a tripod IQ.

    I have recently ordered a larger bag. I am considering trying the DP2M with maybe a XT-1 for images where I am not looking for huge enlargeabilty.
    The XT-1 I can get optics that go to 18 or 21mm equiv for which there is no solution for the Merrills.
    So I think there are some good pairing options.

    On a side note I won't be buying a Quattro mainly because of the form factor not the IQ.
    Xpat interesting you have your DP1s, I still have a DP2. Just can't part with it. I must trot it out one day/

  43. #43
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Xpat interesting you have your DP1s, I still have a DP2. Just can't part with it. I must trot it out one day
    Mine was up on eBay last week. I was quite relieved when it didn't sell!

  44. #44
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    A bit off topic:
    One aspect I have harped on about the Merrills in other posts is the use of MED and LOW RAW settings.
    I believe I garner a bit more of the DP2 look from the DP2M if I use it in MED or even LOW.

    The file is easier to process than full res and the DP2M camera is easier to handle than a DP2.
    I've done some tests and up to a certain size I found there is very little to be lost IQ wise.

    You gain more pixels in DP2M MED over the DP2, but LOW on the DP2M has less pixels than a DP2.

  45. #45
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    Re: Foveon-Shooters and their other gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    A bit off topic:
    One aspect I have harped on about the Merrills in other posts is the use of MED and LOW RAW settings.
    I believe I garner a bit more of the DP2 look from the DP2M if I use it in MED or even LOW.
    You gain more pixels in DP2M MED over the DP2, but LOW on the DP2M has less pixels than a DP2.
    Been down that road myself. Medium resolution, as you probably know, is not pure binning, unlike low res. This because Foveon's VPS technology can not bin odd numbers of pixels so, buried in there somewhere is the 'I' word that we foveonistas hate to use (INTERPOLATION).

    As a non-printing guy, I did find low res on the SD1M to be quite adequate for my viewing needs (1280x1024px monitor). However, there was so little difference between SD1M low res and SD14 high res quality on my monitor that wresting with SPP 5.5.3 just wasn't worth the money

    At one time I used to shoot watches in low res on the SD9 but, in that case, images down-sampled from high res. with a good editor were usually superior. After all, 2x2 on-chip binning is a simple averaging process (bi-linear?), nothing fancy - unlike Lanczos for example.

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