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Thread: SIGMA future - and other stuff

  1. #1
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    SIGMA future - and other stuff

    Here is a shot I realized quickly in a house. It took five minutes to make four bracketed shoots from left to right with the most telecentric DP lens : The DP3 Merrill. Nothing technical in this shoot, just an example.



    All was shot at f16 and ISO100 with simple bracketing -1/0/+1 and Neutral mode. By f16, the DP3 lens start to show a little bit of diffraction 100% on screen but nothing to worry about.

    The PP on it was quite simple, I touched nothing in SPP; just exported all in tiff16bits in PS. Used the simple and powerful photomerge automation to craft 3 different files and blended them as I wanted. I selected the windows to match the good exposure and applied a very little sharpening (the fine noise you might notice at 100% - otherwise its a bit softer but noiseless).
    In the window on the right you might notice a reflect of a Broncolor Para, not used for this example.

    45 minutes of PP.

    Now, download the real jpeg : HERE

    This is a rough 50MP foveon file.

    In how much time in the future do you think SIGMA will release a camera able to take that in ONE shot ? Because, yes, there is an interest. It is what I dream out of the DP0q. But we know this device wont come even close to that in any technical terms. Bear in mind this photo can be made in two stitched and edited file with a D810 (good lenses and huge DR), probably 1 shot with the 5Dsr, and defo one shot with a 645z.

    But I dream about the return of the "normal" foveon 1/1/1 structure under the form of a 24x36 sensor, able to exploit fully the latest SIGMA lenses. Maybe not 50MP but around 20/25MP would be very sufficient and at least 10/12 EV of dynamic range. The price would be big, as big and maybe even more expensive than other FF DSLR. Would you buy into such a monster ?

    By the way you can post your foveon stitched pictures into this thread !
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: SIGMA future - and other stuff

    Hi Hulyss

    I tend to use stitching as an alternative to carrying heavy equipment, while at the same time, obtaining arguably better results. The difference is I tend to use the DP2M.

    Both the DP2M and DP3M are outstanding for stitching. I use a DP2M or DP3M with a Fanotec Nodal Ninja 3II pano head on compact Induro tripod. With a photo vest, the cameras and Fanotec (in its compact case) are pocket-able. With the small tripod slung over the shoulder, you have the kit to to take large format beating images. Its is very liberating!

    The first image is a three row stitch using the DP2M taken inside a Madrassa in Fes, Morocco. The detail in this image, even as a large print, is fantastic, easily large format (8x10) in terms of resolution (but with far greater depth of field) - and all from kit I can stroll around with with hardly any weight penalty.




    The second image is a single row stitched image taken using the same kit (DP2M, Fanotec) from a hotel balcony in Ft Lauderdale, Florida. Obviously, this is so wide that signs of distortion are evident, but that is not an issue with an image like this. By the way, this second image would have been impossible using a Quattro as the sky would have been blown out.



    Both these images stitched with no errors, using PTGui

    With a bit of care, even landscapes with moving elements are possible.

    It is worth taking the trouble to set up the camera and head properly. Fortunately the DP2M and DP3M have very similar nodal points so switching from one to another is a breeze.

    My final example has no artistic merit, but is a test of the DP3M using my pano set-up inside our conservatory, and built from three rows. Stitched perfectly.



    Suffice it to say, I am a huge fan of the, DP2M and DP3M as panoramic cameras because of the low distortion and edge to edge sharpness of the lenses make the work of the stitching program relatively simple. Why use bigger, more cumbersome kit?


    finally, the kit, with DP2M, set up :-)

    Last edited by Quentin_Bargate; 6th April 2015 at 02:59.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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    Re: SIGMA future - and other stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    This is a rough 50MP foveon file.

    In how much time in the future do you think SIGMA will release a camera able to take that in ONE shot ? ..
    ..
    But I dream about the return of the "normal" foveon 1/1/1 structure under the form of a 24x36 sensor, able to exploit fully the latest SIGMA lenses. Maybe not 50MP but around 20/25MP would be very sufficient and at least 10/12 EV of dynamic range. The price would be big, as big and maybe even more expensive than other FF DSLR. Would you buy into such a monster ?

    By the way you can post your foveon stitched pictures into this thread !

    I would buy a 24MP FF Sigma camera with 1:1:1 structure. Actually i was waiting for it to replace my SD1, but then came the Quattro, which is disappointing, and it looks like this sensor will make it also into the next SD.
    I was also waiting for a wider DP Merrill....

    A FF Sigma camera should not be much more expensive than a D810 and there should be other improvements like faster write times, better AF, better DR, better and faster SPP, live view etc. But i don't think, Sigma is able to do that.
    So i still stick with my Sigma-cameras because i can't afford a new system, but today a D810 would be "good enough" for me to accept the Bayer-interpolation.

    Stitching:
    I also like my DP Merrills for stitching. I use a very cheap solution which is good enough for 1-row horizontal panoramas:

    I often bracket my shots to be sure i get clean shadows and the highlights don't blow out. The auto bracketing-feature of the DP Merrills is a nice thing.
    With the DR of the new Sony sensors it would often not be necessary.




    Original size, about 40MP:
    here
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    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: SIGMA future - and other stuff

    D810 is great (I love mine), but it's bulk is an issue, and why bother when the Sigmas do such a great job for stitching?

    I would consider a new camera with an update of original Merril 1:1:1 sensor with more resolution and lower noise, and I might even consider a Quattro MkII if they can sort out the highlight clipping issue.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: SIGMA future - and other stuff

    Very nice image of the indoor mosaics in Morocco, Quentin.

    As an aside, did Sigma Japan ever get back to you about the highlight blowout?

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    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: SIGMA future - and other stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by capital View Post
    Very nice image of the indoor mosaics in Morocco, Quentin.

    As an aside, did Sigma Japan ever get back to you about the highlight blowout?
    Thanks.

    And regarding Sigma, yes and no. Initially I was in contact with guys at Foveon who designed the sensor, but although they were initially responsive and I sent them samples, I have not heard further in some time now. That might be a bad sign, in that if there was an easy firmware fix, we might have expected to see it by now. If there is no firmware fix, at least they are aware of the problem, have seen very clear examples of it, and presumably can work to correct it in the next generation of sensors.

    By the way, they say that they do occasionally monitor forums like these - hi guys!! - but for obvious reasons don't want to be "out there".

    I have my DP1Q with me this week in London, so I might try a few more real word shots.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: SIGMA future - and other stuff

    Do the lemmings know there is a cliff?

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: SIGMA future - and other stuff

    I wonder to what extent Sigma are now really devoted to their camera line.

    They are getting such good press for their DLSR lenses and they are in such demand it makes me wonder why they would divert efforts into a camera.

    I thought I read somewhere an interview with the CEO where he was talking about the SD1 replacement being the Quattro processor.

    It may well be that the DPxM line is their high water mark.

    LouisB

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    Re: SIGMA future - and other stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    ...It may well be that the DPxM line is their high water mark...
    Seems so, so fill your freezer^^

  10. #10
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: SIGMA future - and other stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I wonder to what extent Sigma are now really devoted to their camera line.

    They are getting such good press for their DLSR lenses and they are in such demand it makes me wonder why they would divert efforts into a camera.

    I thought I read somewhere an interview with the CEO where he was talking about the SD1 replacement being the Quattro processor.

    It may well be that the DPxM line is their high water mark.

    LouisB
    Let's hope not but it really would not surprise me.
    The foveon look is unique.
    Hope it does not fade into obscurity.

  11. #11
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: SIGMA future - and other stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    Let's hope not but it really would not surprise me.
    The foveon look is unique.
    Hope it does not fade into obscurity.
    ...if it does. Think about the prices our cameras will command :-)

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