Goodbye Sigma Merrills?

[Tonygamble]

Why not just keep them all? They are small and when suddenly you have a Foveon urge you can fill it. They are small, don't take a lot of space and it is not like you are going to be able to sell them for a lot, so I would just keep them.

I second that.

I bought all three for less than 1,000 UKP. They live in an old camera bag my mother bought me thirty years ago when I felt camera bags were essential for the serious photographer - not now I hasten to add.

I'll keep them until for 1,000 UKP I can buy a camera (or several) that covers that focal length range and shoots to the image quality of the Foveon sensor with more user friendliness than the Merrills.

On a day to day basis I use either my E-M5 or my Ricoh GR. However, there are times when I need to up the quality to what I call medium format level. My bag of Merrills does that for me.

The cash tied up is modest when I consider I have just paid more than two thirds that on one new lens for the E-M5.

Tony

 

[biglouis]

OK, well if someone can change this thread to 'hello Sigma Merrills?' (or delete it) I guess I've changed my mind. A reality check says quite rightly that for the value my DP2M actually has versus the satisfaction to be had in actually using it there is no point in selling it.

From yesterday (near where Quentin is) using my DP2M.

And I've just ordered a DP0Q.

Moi a GAS junky?

I am going to say goodbye to the DP3M, though. If anyone is interested, please PM me but I will probably put it up on ebay early September.

At least everybody interested in Sigma compacts at GetDPI now knows how shallow and weak willed I am when it comes to decisions :facesmack:

LouisB

 

[foveon]

...I am going to say goodbye to the DP3M....

dont do so, its a very good camera for shooting birds, especially swans, and hoppers, see crop^^

 

[apsphoto]

Just a heads up for those looking for any of the DP Merrills, Adorama here in the US has all of the DP Merrills in stock as well as all the Quatrros.

Alan

 

[furtle]

And I've just ordered a DP0Q.

Moi a GAS junky?

Good for you and I'm sure you will enjoy the Q0. For the type of photos you may take in and around the hidden parts of London, it will be great and I look forward to seeing them.

 

[adrewdecourcy]

OK, well if someone can change this thread to 'hello Sigma Merrills?' (or delete it) I guess I've changed my mind. A reality check says quite rightly that for the value my DP2M actually has versus the satisfaction to be had in actually using it there is no point in selling it.

From yesterday (near where Quentin is) using my DP2M.


And I've just ordered a DP0Q.

Moi a GAS junky?

I am going to say goodbye to the DP3M, though. If anyone is interested, please PM me but I will probably put it up on ebay early September.

At least everybody interested in Sigma compacts at GetDPI now knows how shallow and weak willed I am when it comes to decisions :facesmack:

LouisB

I'd tweek it, or as they say give it some spin, not weak willed, you had the strength to see sense Louis I daily, sometimes twice or more daily, if time allows to , browse MPB, Wex Park Camera's, Clifton and further afield in search of that magic. Then before ordering, open an x3f file, or browse those downloaded Raws from various attractive looking cameras and realise what these Sigma's can do.
Each and every time I come back to remind myself, for well under a grand, the value of the Sigma's is astounding.
I am simply waiting for the Dp0Q to drop a little in price, which I see it has at Park Camera's. Just a wee bit more
Be looking forward to your images.

 

[pflower]

I got sucked into the DPxM quagmire (and it is a quagmire when you add in the problems of SPP, highlight recovery, trying to manage saturated reds etc.) after Michael Reichmann's review and Quentin's enthusiastic espousal. The DP1M never appealed but I got both the 2 and 3 and when the prices fell to around £300 or so I bought backups which still sit pristine in their boxes. I have spent a lot of time recently exploring my Sony A7ii but this thread prompted me to go back and revisit my slightly beaten up originals - the problem being I couldn't find them - not in any bag, drawer or camera box. Eventually I did find them - in a jacket pocket. And that seems to me one of their enduring attractions - astonishing quality in a package that fits in a normal jacket pocket. If you don't want to lug something heavier or bigger around or are not even thinking about photographing just stick one or both them in a pocket in case something appeals.

For myself I was slightly surprised to find that my DP3M has had more use than the DP2. Others may prefer wider - but think of this - you couldn't buy a better 75mm lens for the Sony A7 system than this for around £300. Might be worth a second look?

I'd tweek it, or as they say give it some spin, not weak willed, you had the strength to see sense Louis I daily, sometimes twice or more daily, if time allows to , browse MPB, Wex Park Camera's, Clifton and further afield in search of that magic. Then before ordering, open an x3f file, or browse those downloaded Raws from various attractive looking cameras and realise what these Sigma's can do.
Each and every time I come back to remind myself, for well under a grand, the value of the Sigma's is astounding.
I am simply waiting for the Dp0Q to drop a little in price, which I see it has at Park Camera's. Just a wee bit more
Be looking forward to your images.

 

[Tim]

Louis,
I understand your thinking process. I have been down the path as you have, I think in a similar process.

I did purchase both the A7 and later an A7II but they were compromise purchases as what I really wanted was the IQ of the A7r or the A7s low light ability. But alas I am too poor right now to justify the expense of either. So sold both and actually made a small profit on both as I bought when cash back deals were around. I also as not doing a lot of photography right now ME, I, could not justify the cost of these systems lying about. While I agree the A7r II IQ apprears to outstrip any Merrill its still AU$5K once I put a 50mm lens on it and I could buy about 8 - 10 DP2M cameras for this price. The thing is that this is a worthless comparison as the A7rII can take images the Merrill just can't but nonetheless some of us want to be able to take some kind of hi-res image within the bounds of what the Merrill is capable.

Like you my GR sees the bulk of use. At times I feel like quitting everything and just go GR BUT.. dagnabit there was a cashback deal on an already massively price dropped X-T1 so I have invested in one of these bodies to try - apart from a try with the X100 its new to me. I'll be keeping the GR and the DP2M and likely will flog off the DP3 to fund a Fuji XL 35mm. The thing about keeping the DP2M is its not a large cost to have sitting about in case you get a yearning to try if again. The other thing is its sooo light to carry.

Maybe when I am more cashed up later I will Sony dabble.

Enjoy what you have, have fun researching whats available but in the end just make some images with anything and

Tim

 

[adrewdecourcy]

I got sucked into the DPxM quagmire (and it is a quagmire when you add in the problems of SPP, highlight recovery, trying to manage saturated reds etc.) after Michael Reichmann's review and Quentin's enthusiastic espousal. The DP1M never appealed but I got both the 2 and 3 and when the prices fell to around £300 or so I bought backups which still sit pristine in their boxes. I have spent a lot of time recently exploring my Sony A7ii but this thread prompted me to go back and revisit my slightly beaten up originals - the problem being I couldn't find them - not in any bag, drawer or camera box. Eventually I did find them - in a jacket pocket. And that seems to me one of their enduring attractions - astonishing quality in a package that fits in a normal jacket pocket. If you don't want to lug something heavier or bigger around or are not even thinking about photographing just stick one or both them in a pocket in case something appeals.

For myself I was slightly surprised to find that my DP3M has had more use than the DP2. Others may prefer wider - but think of this - you couldn't buy a better 75mm lens for the Sony A7 system than this for around £300. Might be worth a second look?

Hi yes I do acutually have the Dp3 &2 & 1. Yet as you say the lenses on these camera's are their blessing, being fixed helps again. I am have always found SPP ok, but then I was used to Canon raw software converter which back then was quite restrictive. I did though build a lovely computer myself, with specs around a video editing machine using a server board and very decent CPU and even with a measly 16GB Ram which can be upped to 64GB if I so choose, Sigma Photo Pro flies along, not lagging far behind Cs6 or Lr 6, that I put the Tiff's through.
My main contention is that, my mind wonders of wanting another camera to try, but always come back to the conclusion, for what I do, nothing will be as enjoyable as the three Merrill's, maybe the Quattro's but that I'll discover when one is in hand

 

[biglouis]

Tim

You won't go wrong with the Fuji system. It is excellent and the results in the Fuji thread speak for themselves.

I'm not so sure that they A7rII will eclipse the base IQ of a Merrill. However, it will eclipse anything above iso800 and has the versatility of a interchangeable lens system. Like you I would own one if I could afford it but I've just blown my savings on the DP0Q.

I'm embarrassed about such a public volte face but from day one - when it was announced I wanted the DP0Q and in the final analysis I've chosen it over expanding my Sony system further (for now).

Happy shooting with the Fuji - I am sure you will like it a lot.

LouisB

 

[Tonygamble]

Like you my GR sees the bulk of use. At times I feel like quitting everything and just go GR BUT.. dagnabit there was a cashback deal on an already massively price dropped X-T1 so I have invested in one of these bodies to try.

Tim. Are you suggesting the Fuji will replace your GR?

Tony

 

[Tonygamble]

Louis,

What an interesting thread you started. You went away and came back.

During the chat I seriously considered migrating from m43 to Sony a7r ii. From time to time I work some old DSLR files and regret the bokeh that we don't often see with m43. It would be good to have that and the larger image files of the Sony - but when one does the maths of a change they are a hard price to pay.

In chatting on the Sony section someone suggested the Brenizer technique.This is a great technique for all us bokeh and shallow DOF junkies; the final image resembles the look of medium format photography and the inherent extremely shallow depth. I tried it yesterday with my new 42.5 f1.2 and got some fun results.

I also reminded myself of the need to have a backup camera and to add a second a7r put the whole concept out of the question. However, whilst calculating the cost of the move it also made me realise how many m43 lenses I have and now no longer need. So, today, I am having a clear out on to eBay and I'll end up not only in pocket but also with a second E-M5. I'll have my safety net second body and I'll also try working with two bodies and three primes rather than with one body and zoom(s).

And, as I keep saying, I have my magic bag of three Merrills which are always there for when I need a step up in IQ - and, as I think you said above, that will be one step further up than I'd have got with the Sony.

Not much to do with your original post but a way of saying Thank You for helping me think out of the box and removing a few blinkers.

Tony

 

[Tim]

Like you my GR sees the bulk of use. At times I feel like quitting everything and just go GR BUT.. dagnabit there was a cashback deal on an already massively price dropped X-T1 so I have invested in one of these bodies to try.

Tim. Are you suggesting the Fuji will replace your GR?

Tony

Hi Tony,

The Fuji could not replace the GR for me. I often need to travel or carry light so for me the GR would be the last camera I'd part with. It would win over the DP2M (just). The Fuji is more to fill a role of tripod portraits and the like, the interchangeable lenses and option to use longer focal lengths. I do have a wedding coming up where I am not the Pro - I'll use the XT1 for that.

If out and about taking a X-T1 the GR would go as well as its no more weight or hassle than say one extra lens. But at times the GR will go alone. Last family holiday I had I took the GR and DP2M and maybe a couple of times could have used a longer lens. I more often want wider.

I love the form factor of m43, those tiny primes are exquisite to carry and handle. Its the lenses and what I see as a little broader DR that attracted me to Fuji. The lenses are a little larger than m43 but cheaper than Sony A lenses.

 

[Tonygamble]

Thanks Tim,

Good to hear your views.

My GR is safe then.

I love the feel of those Fujis. I took a look at the XT1 specs just now. I was surprised to see that RAW does not work above 6400 ASA. I use higher speeds than that quite often with my e-m5 and rely on Qimage's RAW recovery to give me relatively noise free images. I also looked at the range of lenses, primes and a walk around zoom - and felt I was being better served with m43.

So I start the week with a light heart. eBay has my three spare lenses awaiting new homes and then I'll spend the cash on a wide prime and swop my safety body from Panny to Oly. And my three Merrrills will await their next outing.

Tony

 

[Tim]

Thanks Tim,

Good to hear your views.

My GR is safe then.

I love the feel of those Fujis. I took a look at the XT1 specs just now. I was surprised to see that RAW does not work above 6400 ASA. I use higher speeds than that quite often with my e-m5 and rely on Qimage's RAW recovery to give me relatively noise free images. I also looked at the range of lenses, primes and a walk around zoom - and felt I was being better served with m43.

So I start the week with a light heart. eBay has my three spare lenses awaiting new homes and then I'll spend the cash on a wide prime and swop my safety body from Panny to Oly. And my three Merrrills will await their next outing.

Tony

Tony,

Keep or sell your GR its only a choice you can make.
Thanks for the info on the RAW ISO. I didn't know this, as I am a film user from decades past I am used to working with 3200 or less.
As you know the m43 doubles up for video very well also. I don't do much but may miss/regret not having good video later.

Tim

 

[saltytri]

I told myself at the beginning of owning the Sony system that I would continue to use my Sigmas. But the truth is, each time I go out to shoot intentionally a subject I pack up my Sony system and leave the Sigmas behind.

There are two reasons. Firstly, convenience. The Sonys are very convenient to use. The EVF is a dream and the tilting LCD is also very useful. I often find myself using the tilting screen with the Hoodman Loupe I purchased specifically to use with my Sigmas! The tilting screen and loupe allows for a convenient height for tripod shots and a working method which is very similar to my former Hasselblad (which I sold for weight issues).

Secondly, the image quality while not as good as the Sigmas at the pixel level is more attractive in terms of colouration and the dynamic range of the sensors is as good as the Sigmas, imho. I get more attractive looking photographs straight out of the camera - whereas with the Sigmas I am always fiddling in SPP or LR (after exporting as TIFFs) to get what I want.

On the other hand, here is some interesting information on the A7R II and one of its lenses:

http://diglloyd.com/index.html

 

[biglouis]

On the other hand, here is some interesting information on the A7R II and one of its lenses:

http://diglloyd.com/index.html

In my testing of the DP0Q so far I cannot attain the same level of sharpness with my A7R and CV 21/1.8 Ultron at f8. The DP0Q is sharp and more detailed. Now, there is a small difference in sensor resolution but that does not explain the large difference I subjectively see. On the other hand the A7R is far less noisy at iso400.

So, there is a trade off which we are all aware of, of resolution for noise on the DP0Q.

LouisB

 

[xpatUSA]

In my testing of the DP0Q so far I cannot attain the same level of sharpness with my A7R and CV 21/1.8 Ultron at f8. The DP0Q is sharp and more detailed. Now, there is a small difference in sensor resolution but that does not explain the large difference I subjectively see.

LouisB

Perhaps these older Foveon papers will help, if you haven't already seen them:

http://kronometric.org/phot/sensor/fov/Color_Alias_White_Paper_FinalHiRes.pdf

http://kronometric.org/phot/sensor/fov/CIC10_Lyon_Hubel_FINAL.pdf

I do find with my own cameras (SD14, SD1) that images made direct from raw data (without conversion and without processing) have detail that is quite soft compared with SPP's converted review images.

Which implies that comparing this camera with that inevitably involves the conversion software and, in my view, SPP is quite acutance-oriented by default. For example, check out the edge halos in Merrill images at a sharpness setting of "zero".

Ted

 

[foveon]

same here, I often have to set sharpness to -0.2 or something to avoid halos; often the halos appear after sharpening in photoshop, indicating that there has been some sharpening applied before

 

[Tonygamble]

You mentioned sharpness.

I use SSP for files from my DPM cameras.

How do you preview sharpness changes? Am I right in thinking there is no way to enlarge/zoom the preview images when moving the sharpness slider?

Do you sharpen and then convert and then inspect the converted image?

I am sorry this is such a trivial question in this 'Rest and Return' thread but it is getting a bit quiet so maybe I can be foregiven.

Tony