Site Sponsors
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 101 to 137 of 137

Thread: Sigma sd Quattro H

  1. #101
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    566
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Part 2 is up, with detailed information on DNG support:

    http://giclee-art.my/sd-quattro-h-review-part-2/

    Also a brief Part 3, with some comments on Super Fine Detail mode:

    http://giclee-art.my/sd-quattro-h-review-part-3/

  2. #102
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    20
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    I was hoping in that review he would directly compare the new dng format to a x3f file of the same scene to see what if anything is lost. Or better yet, an in camera DNG, X3F and also a Kalpanika converted DNG, as I was looking for a more rigorous review of this model.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  3. #103
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,427
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Well the good news is that if he has one to review I would hope Sean Reid has one as well and for him to present a much more detailed review at some point.

    He has always been a pretty strong Sigma supporter.

    And so have The Camera Store, which would be good if they could do a review of it as well.

    Let's hope!

    LouisB

  4. #104
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,116
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    I come back from an another forum where things escalate quickly. An old Sigma moderator waked up recently, was very surprised to see how drifted the Sigma community and IQ, expressed his opinion especially about the Quattro and ... got removed from moderation. USA !!

    You know who you are and you are welcome on getDPI.

    Anyway,

    Some facts, some more proof by picture that Quattro tech is just... just ... (I wanted to say it is just a Tata motor engine inside a Ferrari shell but ...) just a Tata motor engine inside a first gen Star Trek spaceship shell.

    Here we speak about SD Quattro H vs SD1 Merrill with the best Sigma lenses available : the 50 and the 85 f1.4 Art.

    SD1 vs sd Quattro?2017/01/22: maro????

    SD1 vs sd Quattro?????2017/01/26: maro????

    SD1 vs sd Quattro???????2017/01/28: maro????

    RUN !! no ... FLY buying the last real men Sigma camera available : The SD1, even if it do not have live view and 1984 EVF, it is a cult collector camera with better DR than Quattro, better rendering than Quattro, less heavy files than Quattro, who can compete against a D810 in landscape and who love ART lenses.

    PS: and it is far more sexy than quattro and the AF, even if not optimal, will perform better than quattro.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  5. #105
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,427
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Hulyss

    I have my ups and downs with the DP0Q - at present I am in the up-mood because for some reason I can't quite fathom it is turning out some good photographs - but I am not exactly an enthusiastic supporter - more a grudging supporter when it works.

    However, I do find it hard to work out what is so wrong with the samples in the links you've provided. I'm not trying to talk myself into buying one (I can't afford an expensive disappointment - if I wanted one of those I'd save up for a new M10, ha-ha!) but for a Quattro sensor I have to say grudgingly that the samples look pretty good.

    I judge Sigma by the way it resolves patterns, which imho is superior to other sensors. Here are a couple of crops of an area of the two photos SD1 vs SDQH from what I assume is the 85mm art samples. I have concentrated on the white brick siding of the building in the crops.



    Click through for full size (about 2MB).

    Obviously, these are the original jpegs, cropped to a 1:1 area. The SD1 file is smaller than the SDQH file and I had to resize the SDQH file to the same dimensions as the SD1 crop, 1276x1276 in order to make a side by side comparison. I then saved and uploaded the resulting file which you can click through to (and created a smaller sized one for display here in the forum).

    In the samples there is one thing which is obvious. The micro-contrast of the SD1 appears to be superior to that of the SDQH. The white bricks on the SD1 shot, indeed a lot of detail is more definite because of the stronger contrast. However, is that a function of the sensor? The sensor and the lens? Or the settings in the camera of the photographer? It is difficult to say. If we accept that the SD1 sensor handles contrast better then other than that I find that the IQ of the images is close enough to be the same. And either sensor produces more detail than I have seen in all but one Bayer-sensor camera I have ever owned.

    The 'all-but-one' is my Leica Q which produce damn fine detail on a par with my Merrill DPxMs. This was not the case, for example with my Sony A7R and A7S bodies, or my current Panasonic GX8 and GX80 bodies - nor would you expect it from a m43rds sensor but you might have expected it from the Sony FF sensors. So, well done Leica. Even so, in a shoot out with my DP3M vs the Leica Q I have found the DP3M to be as good and better which is a pretty good result for a camera which costs 4.5 times less than a Leica Q!.

    But back to the SDQH, I don't think these results show the SDQH to be radically poorer than the SD1. There are issues with micro-contrast which my DP0Q also struggles with on an indeterminate basis (in other words I can't work out why sometimes the results are perfect and other times they are not).

    Are the results here are not influenced by the camera settings rather than the sensors? Is my comparison valid? What do others think?

    LouisB

    PS Please do not re-post my example as it would not be fair to the original photographer.

  6. #106
    Member Stoneage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    117
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    At first these two samples look kind of similar, but there is something in the Merrill image that is more appealing.
    If you read the comments on dpreview, everybody prefers the Merrill shot.
    The shortcomings of Quattro are less present in highly detailed (busy) images but are more pronounced in out of focus areas or surfaces and textures.
    And they become even more visible if you have to work on the RAW (lifting shadows, recovering highlights)

    These are 200% crops to make my point more visible:




    This is not the kind of pixel quality that makes me want to buy a Foveon based camera again. The Merrill sensor was already kind of a stretch after the previous, super clean and vivid 4.7mp sensor. But it was a good compromise and advantage over all.
    Quattro is more like one step forward and two steps backwards.
    flickr
    500px
    Blog (Foveon related)
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  7. #107
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,427
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Those are interesting crops. One other thing which is noticeable is the difference in colouring between the two sensors.

    The SD1 colour is darker than the SDQ-H. Again, is this the sensor or the camera settings? I am assuming it is the sensor.

    LouisB

  8. #108
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,116
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Well, maro is very well known in Sigma camera testing since sigma digital camera exist. For me and my good eyes, since I use sigma digital cameras (almost 10 years ...!), the SD1 trounce the Quattro and not only in IQ.

    The DpQ are heresies compared to the previous DP. First, Ergonomic : No way as pocketable as previous DP. We already lose flash on the Merrill but it was ok since the DPm are compact and the sensor is awesome. With the Dpq you need more than a pocket and... WHO the hell want a camera that protect his memory card with a simple rubber cover ??? At nearly 1K$ ...What the hell ??? Just for this little thing, those DP are design and marketing jokes.

    Of course IQ is good only because of the lens and THEN, the AFE kill the DR hence the Merrill files have far better dynamic. Simple Sigma fact: never buy a Sigma with AFE otherwise you'll have to deal with blown highlights and/or colours. Well known with previous generations. (None of the Merrill's have AFE but SD15, DP2X, DP1X was equipped with it and was kind of crap).

    Those problem are the same on the SD quattro, H or not. That + the utter lack of Chrominance because of this heretic sensor.

    Trust my experience : SIGMA CAMERA + AFE = FRAUD.

    What can I say for this composition : SIGMA CAMERA + AFE + QUATTRO =

    Fell free to fill the blank.

    EDIT: I say that again because on other forums some late "specialists" () just say that Maro is biased toward Merrill ... NO Maro isn't biased at all and never was. Period.

    Stop insulting people who have skills and experience when you have none.
    Last edited by Hulyss Bowman; 29th January 2017 at 05:41.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post

  9. #109
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,427
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post

    Stop insulting people who have skills and experience when you have none.
    Hulyss, I may be misinterpreting this statement but I am going to assume it is not aimed at people in this thread.

    LouisB

  10. #110
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,116
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Hulyss, I may be misinterpreting this statement but I am going to assume it is not aimed at people in this thread.

    LouisB
    ho no don't worry Just aimed at some ppl on other forums (where I can't participate because I'm a bully...). Those guys just like to teach other people about a brand even if they do not own any camera of this brand ... and they like saying "things" on other ppl (like "Maro is biased"...) when themselves are not specially known for any work or specially known at all.

    But this is internet. Not photography.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  11. #111
    Member Stoneage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    117
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Just aimed at some ppl on other forums (where I can't participate because I'm a bully...). Those guys just like to teach other people about a brand even if they do not own any camera of this brand ... and they like saying "things" on other ppl (like "Maro is biased"...) when themselves are not specially known for any work or specially known at all.
    There are the biased Sigma/Foveon veterans over there who defend everything coming from Sigma. Every new Sigma camera has "better colors" and "better ISO" performance and "better everything" in their eyes.
    Maybe they would even praise a bayer matrix sensor if Sigma would announce it.
    Unfortunately these people seem to be the "connection/voice" between the american users and the Sigma company. Together with the very polite and uncritical Japanese user base, we can't expect much progress from this relationship.
    Then there are the new, unexperienced fanboys with only one Quattro camera who believe in the Sigma marketing speech, ignoring obvious facts about the shortcomings of the new sensor.
    Their "proof" is always the "better resolution" of Quattro, especially after a highly complex processing/sharpening/noise reduction treatment of one particular user. Or the "better color" which is mostly just more saturation and warmer white balance. Ignoring the flat, lifeless rendering and the lack of 3D pop and soul, because they never experienced true Foveon from the old days, the SD10, DP1 etc. and even the Merrill.

    Sigma, just put the Merrill sensor in new, compact DP (digital compact!) bodies with faster processors and state of the art components. Do the same with the SD1 and add live view, hire 2-3 qualified programmers to rewrite Sigma Photo Pro and i would slowly replace my whole Sigma gear even if the sensor is the same.
    flickr
    500px
    Blog (Foveon related)
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  12. #112
    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    S. Florida
    Posts
    584
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    the AFE kill the DR hence the Merrill files have far better dynamic...
    Hulyss, could you point me to a scientific explanation of AFE (Analog Front End) reducing image sensor DR? Is not the whole point of AFE to improve SNR?

    Personally, I don't care about SD Q & H, but do wonder what potential Quattro technology has for a future generation of DP H models. It's the DP H lens quality and aperture size that may spike my interest and GAS in spite of inherited Quattro shortcomings.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  13. #113
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    2,012
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Sigma - great company, doing wonders with 35mm lenses, had a marvellous line of cameras with the Merrill series, breathtaking image quality. So good in my opinion that in late 2012 I risked a short photographic vacation to Morroco armed just with the DP1M and DP2M ( a Sony for backup) and despite poor high ISO perfomance, I had an absolutely superb time and captured some great images. Then they took a wrong turn with the Quattro cameras, and instead of rowing back and accepting they had made a disatrous mistake, they carried on. The SD and H quattros are the sad result.

    But they are just cameras and Sigma have got a lot right with the lenses, even if the Quattro range is, as many think, an unmitigated disaster. I wonder if their reps still visit these forums? I suspect not...
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  14. #114
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Bellville, TX, USA
    Posts
    118
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneage View Post
    Or the "better color" which is mostly just more saturation and warmer white balance.
    I have no idea what is meant by "better" but recently I tested the color accuracy of my 4 Sigma cameras and one gentleman (TN Args) contributed a dp0 Quattro shot.

    The Quattro was the most accurate when comparing the Lab colors listed for the Xrite color checker card with the resulting Lab picker results in RawTherapee.

    So, in your view, what is meant by "better"?

  15. #115
    Member Stoneage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    117
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by xpatUSA View Post
    So, in your view, what is meant by "better"?
    I was referring to claims from users that Quattro has "better colors" when comparing shots from Merrill and Quattro. In most of these samples, the Quattro simply has a warmer white balance (Merrill auto WB is mostly too cool) and the Quattro seems to saturate colors more. So these two factors seem to be the reason for such claims.
    Maybe the Quattro is also more accurate, as you said, but this is not something that you can examine without a scientific test setup.
    The other question is then: how do colors react with strong illumination/sunlight, or in shadow areas when exposure has to be liftet, how "stable" are the colors?
    Test setups are mostly perfectly and even lit.

    In my personal opinion, "good" color should not only be accurate but "stable" so that i can work with it, shifting or boosting it to my taste without getting posterisation or lots of noise.
    Quattro seems to have noisy reds and yellows. So, if these colors are "accurate", they are still not good in my opinion. Even if the color picker says they are accurate.
    flickr
    500px
    Blog (Foveon related)
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  16. #116
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,116
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    Hulyss, could you point me to a scientific explanation of AFE (Analog Front End) reducing image sensor DR? Is not the whole point of AFE to improve SNR?
    There is a difference between what say Sigma and the reality, always. The AFE is probably, theoretically, a good idea but they NEVER managed to implement it right, either at a hardware level but more probably at a software level. I struggled for years with the SD15, I struggled immediately with the Quattro (and his false histogram). Same **** different day. And yes, I know how to expose a camera since my minox back in the days. The headroom is much more limited than Merrill in the same way that it is much more limited between a DP2X and a DP2S or a SD14 and a SD15.

    History always repeat itself... and ppl have an EXTREMELY short memory (or age bring selective memory I do not know...).


    To answer about the colours, yes it have a lot to do about the white balance as Stoneage said. But most pros (the guys who work pictures for a living) do not care about the marginal lab results one software might output. They know how to obtain colour reproduction since film age so... Quattro or not this isn't an interesting argument/point, at all.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  17. #117
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    10
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    There is a difference between what say Sigma and the reality, always. The AFE is probably, theoretically, a good idea but they NEVER managed to implement it right, either at a hardware level but more probably at a software level. I struggled for years with the SD15, I struggled immediately with the Quattro (and his false histogram). Same **** different day. And yes, I know how to expose a camera since my minox back in the days. The headroom is much more limited than Merrill in the same way that it is much more limited between a DP2X and a DP2S or a SD14 and a SD15.

    History always repeat itself... and ppl have an EXTREMELY short memory (or age bring selective memory I do not know...).


    To answer about the colours, yes it have a lot to do about the white balance as Stoneage said. But most pros (the guys who work pictures for a living) do not care about the marginal lab results one software might output. They know how to obtain colour reproduction since film age so... Quattro or not this isn't an interesting argument/point, at all.
    Hi Hulyss.

    You where one of the reasons I bought my first Sigma camera, the dp3M and I still love it and my dp1M to this day. Sadly I have never used any of the older Sigma cameras but I do use the newer Quattro cameras and I am also enjoying them.

    I know the rendering of the Q is different, some of that micro-contrast is gone as is the 3d rendering it gave to some objects but overall I rather enjoy the rendering and wonder why you seem so angry?

    Would we all love a 35mm (or larger) true x3 sensor? YES but at the same time I'm sure there are a lot of lessons to learn about the Q sensor good or bad which will get put into any future chip design.

    The sdQ is a great camera to use, much easier than the sd1M imho and I can easily nail focus wide open with lens such as the 18-35mm f1.8 which I had a lot of trouble with on the sd1M, even manual focus is easy due to the focus peaking and zooming ability, add that to live view tethering on the sdQH and there is a lot to love about the new camera and I for one am enjoying using the sdQ to create while the sd1M is gathering some dust.

    I couldn't sell my Merrill camera's as they are pretty special but the Quattro isn't that bad imho, not as bad as people seem to make it out to be and still able to deliver incredible images.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SDIM0009SPP.jpg 
Views:	353 
Size:	302.9 KB 
ID:	124396
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  18. #118
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    849
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Sigma - great company, doing wonders with 35mm lenses, had a marvellous line of cameras with the Merrill series, breathtaking image quality. So good in my opinion that in late 2012 I risked a short photographic vacation to Morroco armed just with the DP1M and DP2M ( a Sony for backup) and despite poor high ISO perfomance, I had an absolutely superb time and captured some great images. Then they took a wrong turn with the Quattro cameras, and instead of rowing back and accepting they had made a disatrous mistake, they carried on. The SD and H quattros are the sad result.

    But they are just cameras and Sigma have got a lot right with the lenses, even if the Quattro range is, as many think, an unmitigated disaster. I wonder if their reps still visit these forums? I suspect not...
    Maybe the quattros are not what some hoped they would or should be. But what I observe on this forum is endless ranting (not you, I know) of a very small number of individuals who seem to be obsessively frustrated with a tool they neither own nor use on a regular basis. Not enough for a company to reconsider its product strategy, I would think. I remember the days when the Sigma section of this forum was a great place for sharing pictures, exchange experiences and learn from one another. I still enjoy my DP Merrills and a Quattro 0 but mostly stay away from the Sigma posts in this forum as life simply is too short to be wasted with such negativity.
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  19. #119
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,116
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Monaghan View Post
    Hi Hulyss.

    You where one of the reasons I bought my first Sigma camera, the dp3M and I still love it and my dp1M to this day. Sadly I have never used any of the older Sigma cameras but I do use the newer Quattro cameras and I am also enjoying them.

    I know the rendering of the Q is different, some of that micro-contrast is gone as is the 3d rendering it gave to some objects but overall I rather enjoy the rendering and wonder why you seem so angry?

    Would we all love a 35mm (or larger) true x3 sensor? YES but at the same time I'm sure there are a lot of lessons to learn about the Q sensor good or bad which will get put into any future chip design.

    The sdQ is a great camera to use, much easier than the sd1M imho and I can easily nail focus wide open with lens such as the 18-35mm f1.8 which I had a lot of trouble with on the sd1M, even manual focus is easy due to the focus peaking and zooming ability, add that to live view tethering on the sdQH and there is a lot to love about the new camera and I for one am enjoying using the sdQ to create while the sd1M is gathering some dust.

    I couldn't sell my Merrill camera's as they are pretty special but the Quattro isn't that bad imho, not as bad as people seem to make it out to be and still able to deliver incredible images.
    I get your point Paul and understand it but I won't again explain why I'm angry toward Sigma. I already made numerous explicit posts about it. Continue your good work

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    Maybe the quattros are not what some hoped they would or should be. But what I observe on this forum is endless ranting (not you, I know) of a very small number of individuals who seem to be obsessively frustrated with a tool they neither own nor use on a regular basis. Not enough for a company to reconsider its product strategy, I would think. I remember the days when the Sigma section of this forum was a great place for sharing pictures, exchange experiences and learn from one another. I still enjoy my DP Merrills and a Quattro 0 but mostly stay away from the Sigma posts in this forum as life simply is too short to be wasted with such negativity.
    Life is too short yes. Since I have all my life front to me I prefer fighting to see Sigma repair what they have broken : Faith, uniqueness, trust ... yadiyada
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  20. #120
    Member Stoneage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    117
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    I still enjoy my DP Merrills and a Quattro 0 but mostly stay away from the Sigma posts in this forum as life simply is too short to be wasted with such negativity.
    Nothing wrong with that. But if you had, like me, lenses for the Sigma DSLR system that is worth somewhere around 7k €, then you might understand the frustration that they just stopped producing the kind of image quality that made me invest so much money. Sigma can make their Quattro stuff, that's ok for me, but please update the SD1 to modern standards.
    flickr
    500px
    Blog (Foveon related)
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  21. #121
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    448
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    ...to see Sigma repair what they have broken ....
    fly with "never come back airways"

  22. #122
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,427
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    This is a pretty impressive test of the SDQ-H and Art 12-24. It convinces me. I still hanker after going back to using a SWC and film but I could be more persauded now to spend the money on a SDQ-H and the Art 12-24.

    http://giclee-art.my/sigma-12-24-f4-art-on-the-h/

    LouisB
    -----
    "My photography books", Flickr Stream
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post

  23. #123
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    2,012
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    This is a pretty impressive test of the SDQ-H and Art 12-24. It convinces me. I still hanker after going back to using a SWC and film but I could be more persauded now to spend the money on a SDQ-H and the Art 12-24.

    http://giclee-art.my/sigma-12-24-f4-art-on-the-h/

    LouisB
    Less impressive is the bad grammar used for the review... .
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  24. #124
    Member Stoneage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    117
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Less impressive is the bad grammar used for the review... .
    Hmm...that's a bit harsh, Wesley is malaysian.
    flickr
    500px
    Blog (Foveon related)
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  25. #125
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,427
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Less impressive is the bad grammar used for the review... .
    I don't think English is his first language.

    L :-)
    -----
    "My photography books", Flickr Stream
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  26. #126
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Bellville, TX, USA
    Posts
    118
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneage View Post
    Hmm...that's a bit harsh, Wesley is [Malaysian].
    Yup - he cain't hardly speak good English . .

    You are not alone, Quentin, I just got roasted for being excessively pedantic on the other forum:

    https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59181110
    .

  27. #127
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    10,614
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2476

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Did anybody buy this? After seeing the review at dpr, I'm considering it for macro and product photography.

  28. #128
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    10,614
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2476

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    I don't know if anybody has posted this link before. The review is not about the "H", but most of what he writes is relevant to both of the SD Quattro models.

    https://www.photigy.com/sigma-sd-quattro-camera-review/

  29. #129
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Knorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,478
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Did anybody buy this? After seeing the review at dpr, I'm considering it for macro and product photography.
    At 51 MP and EUR 1300, it seems to be the poor man's DMF.
    Being a 'lefty', I doubt the 'odd' position of the EVF.
    Bart ...

  30. #130
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    2,012
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Where the Merrills really scored, and the Quattros flopped, was with monochrome conversions.

    The Merrills are top mono performers with low noise and outstanding tonal gradations. Have the new Sd Quattros cured the Quattro weakness in that regard?

    Divisions. DP2M

    Last edited by Quentin_Bargate; 5th June 2017 at 13:29.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  31. #131
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    10,614
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2476

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    At 51 MP and EUR 1300, it seems to be the poor man's DMF.
    Being a 'lefty', I doubt the 'odd' position of the EVF.
    Exactly. Bolted to a tripod in a studio, shooting tethered, it's hard to see how anything else comes remotely close. Add the 24-35/2.0 and 50/1.4 for architecture and portraits respectively, and I would pretty much be covered for most slow occasions. Tempting, very tempting

  32. #132
    Member Arjuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    208
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    bolted to a tripod, in a studio, for things that don't move, I suspect that a Pentax K1 with pixel-shift would come more than close.

  33. #133
    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    1,044
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Yeah, using DPR's comparison of the K1 pixel-shift mode to the Quattro H, I think I have to give it to the Pentax. The results from that camera look really nice. That said, the QH could probably improve if SFD was used, and Pixel Shift can be really limiting for anything outside of a studio.

    I played around with the DNGs from DPR's review of the H, and I came away with mixed feelings. On the plus side, processing them is really quick in Lightroom and the results do have that "Sigma" look. The workflow for importing is seamless, and the DNG can be losslessly compressed to around the same size as the X3F with a quick click after import. There is good control over noise reduction and sharpness, although no amount of tweaking could bring the DNG to exactly the same place as the X3F. I found the most pleasing results were with Luminance NR kept low (<5), and Color NR around 30-40. Even so, unfortunately to me the DNG exhibited some color shifts and even what look like sensor "hot spots" that don't appear in the X3F (strangely, they show up in the JPEG though). There were also color differences between SPP and LR that I couldn't seem to reconcile, and both were off in different places from the benchmark camera colors. Overall I think DNG would be what I would choose to shoot 95% of the time if I bought a Quattro, but it was kind of disappointing that I still preferred SPP's output. If anyone has Lightroom NR/sharpness/color settings for Quattro DNGs that they like, I'd be interested to test them out.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/grahamgibson/
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post

  34. #134
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Knorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,478
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    Yeah, using DPR's comparison of the K1 pixel-shift mode to the Quattro H, I think I have to give it to the Pentax. The results from that camera look really nice. That said, the QH could probably improve if SFD was used, and Pixel Shift can be really limiting for anything outside of a studio.

    I played around with the DNGs from DPR's review of the H, and I came away with mixed feelings. On the plus side, processing them is really quick in Lightroom and the results do have that "Sigma" look. The workflow for importing is seamless, and the DNG can be losslessly compressed to around the same size as the X3F with a quick click after import. There is good control over noise reduction and sharpness, although no amount of tweaking could bring the DNG to exactly the same place as the X3F. I found the most pleasing results were with Luminance NR kept low (<5), and Color NR around 30-40. Even so, unfortunately to me the DNG exhibited some color shifts and even what look like sensor "hot spots" that don't appear in the X3F (strangely, they show up in the JPEG though). There were also color differences between SPP and LR that I couldn't seem to reconcile, and both were off in different places from the benchmark camera colors. Overall I think DNG would be what I would choose to shoot 95% of the time if I bought a Quattro, but it was kind of disappointing that I still preferred SPP's output. If anyone has Lightroom NR/sharpness/color settings for Quattro DNGs that they like, I'd be interested to test them out.
    Absolutely, the K1 is also very tempting ...
    So, I guess a K1 v QH showdown is being called for: who will be volunteering ?

    Bart ...

  35. #135
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    10,614
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2476

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna View Post
    bolted to a tripod, in a studio, for things that don't move, I suspect that a Pentax K1 with pixel-shift would come more than close.
    And this day started so nicely, sun is shining, plans for new camera seemed pretty clear.... and now this... Pentax clouds over the horizon

    I must admit that I didn't compare with the Pentax. Done it now. Yes, they are better. Both have advantages. Need time to think again

    Pentax support in this country is, at least from what I've heard, terrible. My dealer can get it for me, but I'd probably have to use the back entrance, wearing a brown paper bag over my head.

  36. #136
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    2,012
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Pentax K1. Used in pixel shift mode (and the raw files developed in software that supports those files AND can handle minor movement within the image, like a waterfall - SilkyPix is an good choice) will comfortably out resolve a 50mp medium format camera. I know, because I too was curious and have done that comparison between a tripod mounted Fuji GFX and 32-64mm lens, and a Pentax K1 with Pentax 15-30mm zoom, (both at F8 and shot at roughly comparable focal lenghths around 25mm equivalent). Pixel shift is like a free in-camera upgrade to around 65mp or more, and no moire at all.

    The K1 is also built like a tank, tough and weather sealed. If I sound like a fan, I am, (also of the excellent Fuji GFX, but that is another story).
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post

  37. #137
    Member Stoneage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    117
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    The Merrills are top mono performers with low noise and outstanding tonal gradations. Have the new Sd Quattros cured the Quattro weakness in that regard?
    Hell no! You have to choose between sandy (luma noise reduction zero) or posterisation (due to luma NR)
    And of course no "blue layer" effect in the monochrome mode.
    I know, some people say that the noise is film-like, but in my opinion the Quattro-noise is extremely "digital".

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •