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Thread: Sigma sd Quattro H

  1. #1
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    Sigma sd Quattro H

    wow....my pentax k-1 money suddenly got frozen!!

    sd Quattro | ‚ƒƒ | SIGMA GLOBAL VISION

    Sigma sd Quattro - Mobile01

    let's hope the DR is not too bad
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    doesnt look like an SLR with OVF, maybe EVF?

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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Haaaaaaaaaaa !!!!

    BIGGER SENSOR
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    doesnt look like an SLR with OVF, maybe EVF?
    yep. i think the description says, the EVF is 2.3 million dots.

    interestingly there is a super-fine mode which reduces noise:

    "The new Super-Fine Detail (SFD) exposure mode brings out the full performance of the Foveon X3 Quattro direct image sensor. One push of the shutter generates seven different exposures, creating RAW data in the X3I file format. Using this data with the SIGMA Photo Pro software package, the photographer can create noiseless images with an extensive dynamic range. With this new mode, the more detailed imaging potential of the Foveon X3 Quattro direct image sensor is fully leveraged. From each X3I file, individual X3F files may also be generated. The value of SFD exposure mode is especially apparent in studio photography."
    Keep It Simple.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    this EVF thing means they dont use a mirror, so why keep the flange distance. Bringing the camera with shorter flange distance and an adapter to SA Flange opens the field to use 3rd party lenses with adapters.

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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    All of this sound pretty good. The only points who interest me are the new APS-H (not really an APS-H but let say it is...) and the EVF performance.

    There is a lot of work on those two cameras and on the sensor (on sensor phase and contrast AF). The AF won't be as efficient as the regular SD (Imho).

    Also, Sigma photo pro will need a dust off to handle the new XFI files... playing with one Quattro file even on big computer take time. Imagine with 7 bigger files in the same time ? Crashes ahead.

    Hooo ... why bother ? I'm waiting the APS-H version of the new DP ^^

    But maybe it is the death of the DP line ?

    We need more infos anyway.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by UHDR View Post
    ...The new Super-Fine Detail (SFD) exposure mode...
    with other words, they invented HDR, or at least, they fancy that.^^
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Wow, i was so wrong with my speculations about the comming SD Quattro, and i'm glad i was.

    Since the "APS-H" sensor is only marginally bigger, will APS-C lenses maybe still work?

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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Yes this is just Exposure stacking, can be done with whatever camera

    Also hope you guys do not have a big nose. Look at the EVF position ^^

    Note: The nose will grease the right of the screen where no image is displayed, only camera infos.



    Anyway, I'm sure that the APS-H version will deliver a lot on IQ, quattro or not. I'm just a bit sad they kept the SA mount, just a bit sad we can't really adapt other lenses on it... we will see how it work later.

    I like the design. Note : It is square when the grip is mounted on.
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Looks great!

    This is what Nikon should have done already long time ago in order to build a mirrorless camera allowing to mount their complete lens lineup (APSC/DX and FF/FX). They could have easily created a DX (24MP) as well as a FX (36MP) mirrorless body this way. Makes me really angry how boring and conservative Nikon is thinking . Same is BTW true for Canon, but I care less as I am out of Canon since many years

    But back to the SD Quattro H and the DS Quattro - they seem to have done something about high ISO, both go natively up to 6400, which is great!

    The SD Quattro H reminds me WRT sensor size on the Leica DMR and the M8, which had similar crop of 1.3, which is actually something very good

    I do hope that Sigma is working together with Adobe for RAW support, as I am definitely not going into another Sigma proprietary post processing SW package. But if that happens, this could become the basis of a great mirrorless system for me. Of course if the price is reasonable ....
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    ...But maybe it is the death of the DP line ? ...
    or the death of Sigma camera alltogether, I am just curious about the price;
    I dont understand how Sigma can be that straight in lenses and so confused in cameras

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    ...great mirrorless system...
    IMO its more the worst of two worlds, EVF from mirrorless, flange distance from SLR^^
    edit: and fixed monitor, but I am sure, someday they will invent a tiltable one^^
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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Given some of the discussions we have had in this forum about an interchangeable CSC my first thought is 'be careful what you wish for... you might just get it!'

    The lack of a tilting screen is a bummer.

    I was quite happy with a 1.3 crop factor with my M8 soI think this is not so bad. A 16mm becomes a 21mm and a 28mm becomes a 35mm etc.

    I just hope that Sigma is not crazy in its pricing assuming that it is competing with Penta 645z, Hassleblad CFV-50c etc.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    looking at the EVF....it screams to me that it was originally ment for tilt-able EVF like GX7/8, but mr sigma then thought it will be too expensive to implement.

    they said 51MP but we all know how sigma does their maths differently to normal human beings. i wonder what is actual size and base pixel count for the H version. we know alot of the ART lens achieve their magic through larger-than-required image cirlce, so may be even 18-35mm and the new 50-100mm will be good for the H too.
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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    If it can ameliorate the ugly APS-C bokeh and if the price is cool I might try. So "APS-H" + 50f1.4 Art might be cool. SIGMA ? If I can test one just send me a unit with a 50 Art, 24 Art and a telezoom. I promise I will be pragmatic
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I just hope that Sigma is not crazy in its pricing assuming that it is competing with Penta 645z, Hassleblad CFV-50c etc.

    LouisB
    I hope so too, think Pentax have put the cat amongst the pigeons with the price of the new K1 full fame, so hoping Sigma price these at around the same or slightly cheaper. We all remember the SD1 pricing fiasco.
    Nice to see NO video, but have USB 3 and mini HDMI outputs.

    Lets see some samples soon i hope.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by UHDR View Post
    ...i wonder what is actual size and base pixel count for the H version.....
    top layer: 6,2004,152

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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Anyway... it is the Quattro H, like Hulyss so I'm sorta obliged to buy it, just because.

    Side note: If one want to find my initial DP3m review I published back in the days on Luminous landscape ... it is now impossible without paying. Thank you Michael Richman you, pompous capitalist, to not even cite the Author (Me). I might ask Get DPI to host it, if they agree, because it was an informative piece of review.
    Last edited by Hulyss Bowman; 23rd February 2016 at 09:06.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by UHDR View Post
    yep. i think the description says, the EVF is 2.3 million dots.

    interestingly there is a super-fine mode which reduces noise:

    "The new Super-Fine Detail (SFD) exposure mode brings out the full performance of the Foveon X3 Quattro direct image sensor. One push of the shutter generates seven different exposures, creating RAW data in the X3I file format. Using this data with the SIGMA Photo Pro software package, the photographer can create noiseless images with an extensive dynamic range. With this new mode, the more detailed imaging potential of the Foveon X3 Quattro direct image sensor is fully leveraged. From each X3I file, individual X3F files may also be generated. The value of SFD exposure mode is especially apparent in studio photography."
    Sounds a but like acceptance that the original quatto sensor design has poor dynamic range
    Quentin Bargate
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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Good news.

    The Sigma website link is down.

    That either means there is an unexpected overwhelming interest in the cameras.

    Or, their site was hacked and someone put up a totally false set of pages in an effort to stimulate Sigma management to do something to improve the camera product line.

    Conspiracy-theorist moi?

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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Sounds a but like acceptance that the original quatto sensor design has poor dynamic range
    Hello Quentin,

    The last firmware/SPP bring some visible advancements, especially at a noise level. I do not know about highlight clipping. We can expect some refinements on the H Quattro. It is just a bigger chunk of wafer with the same pixel pitch. If the histogram is available and accurate in manual mode I think the H might deliver a LOT. All depend of the lenses of course but now the Art lenses are here and the range is ok. 24 to 50 in art series and maybe a 85, who know.

    The H with the 24 Art should deliver, I'm sure. What is sure also is that SPP will be a bit revamped because it start to be heavy datas. Once the good samples are out we will be a bit dazzled me think.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    this EVF thing means they dont use a mirror, so why keep the flange distance. Bringing the camera with shorter flange distance and an adapter to SA Flange opens the field to use 3rd party lenses with adapters.
    Sigma doesn't make money from the use of third party lenses on their cameras, but they do make money if you buy some of their SA-mount lenses.

    I think this is pretty cool, although I don't have any lenses in SA-mount. For me, it would be even cooler if it came with F-mount and 4K video, but that is what Nikon is going to do next, right Nikon...?
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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    I'm trying to work out which lenses would make sense with these cameras.

    Is it me or is there no real UWA lens in the Sigma lens system?

    The closest I seem to get is a 17-40 Contemporary, or 18-50 Art (which looks like an interesting lens in the typical 24-70 line up) but I can't find anything that would give me either primes or zooms which are the equivalent of 16 to 21 on a full frame camera..

    Am I missing something because I thought Sigma's range was a lot larger than now appears on the web site?

    LouisB

  25. #25
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Sigma do have a very good aps-c wide angle zoom : The Sigma 8-16mm 4.5-5.6 DC HSM

    It might work perfect on the regular Quattro now we need to see if it work on the H Quattro. Sigma will give us answers anyway we just need to wait I think.

    The 8-16 do have an excellent reputation among wide angle zooms.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Hello Quentin,

    The last firmware/SPP bring some visible advancements, especially at a noise level. I do not know about highlight clipping. We can expect some refinements on the H Quattro. It is just a bigger chunk of wafer with the same pixel pitch. If the histogram is available and accurate in manual mode I think the H might deliver a LOT. All depend of the lenses of course but now the Art lenses are here and the range is ok. 24 to 50 in art series and maybe a 85, who know.

    The H with the 24 Art should deliver, I'm sure. What is sure also is that SPP will be a bit revamped because it start to be heavy datas. Once the good samples are out we will be a bit dazzled me think.
    Much as I am glad to see Sigma producing a new innovative camera, Sony E-mount cameras which I currently use, are compact, offer superb quality and Sony have released new G master lenses likely to make the very most of their sensors. I'm not sure these new cameras will be able to compete, but I'd certainly like to think they can and I will therefore keep an open mind.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    I too found this camera system strangely appealing. Weatherproof, magnesium body, high quality lenses, high resolution, unique but ergonomic design, complete system at launch and a battery grip (necessary for those big lenses). On the downside: not legacy lens friendly (permanent SA adapter mounted on front), no software support from major platforms (non-Bayer sensor issue - Fuji suffers from this to a lesser degree).

    Sigma will have to get on the Adobe bandwagon if they want to be taken seriously.
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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    @Quentin :

    Yes I understand but it come a certain price tag !

    @etrigan63

    I seriously doubt the SD Q is weather sealed, at all. They would already have communicated on it like with the SD1.



    What we can say as the date of today is that Sigma listen and try to make a "bigger" sensor. This is the way to go even if it is not yet a 24x36.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    @etrigan63

    I seriously doubt the SD Q is weather sealed, at all. They would already have communicated on it like with the SD1.
    From the Sigma Press Release:

    "A magnesium alloy body makes the sd Quattro and sd Quattro H durable and rugged, while a dust- and splash-proof design makes it ideal for photographers facing harsh conditions."
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  30. #30
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    From the Sigma Press Release:

    "A magnesium alloy body makes the sd Quattro and sd Quattro H durable and rugged, while a dust- and splash-proof design makes it ideal for photographers facing harsh conditions."
    Haa ! My bad. On the official website under "operating condition" we just have a temperature range (0 to 40), nothing more. But it seems to be protected yes. Will need to see the drawing of this protection to be true.

    Anyway, none of the actual Art lenses are Weather sealed so there is something odd over here
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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Prediction & porn -



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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Love the design. Remembers me of the old Braun products but then in black.
    I am certainly interested especially in combination with their Art primes and zoom lenses.
    Hope these sensors are not the quatro ones but updated dp style.

  33. #33
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    I was initially confused about the size of this instrument.
    Its already on Camerasize - http://camerasize.com/compact/#669,293,624,ha,f

    Notably, click it in Camerasize to the top downview like here - http://camerasize.com/compact/#669,624,641,557,ha,t

    Its not insubstantial in size.
    If Sigma can tool up for the APS-H sensor for this body, will that appear in a DP2Q replacement?
    Here's hoping if it does the body style will be revisited.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Super interesting camera. I've always loved the Sigma foveon/quattro quality. I demo'd the DP2 Quattro for a week when it came out, and the image quality at low ISOs is beautiful. Build quality was also impressive, even if the ergonomics weren't the best. This looks like the same build style with a much better set of ergonomic choices, even if the weird angled base should have been flat. Seriously, I think they've designed these Quattro SDs and DPs to be visually strange in order to say, "hey, these aren't your average camera".

    Sigma's approach here seems to be a way to take a step in the mirrorless direction, while taking advantage of an already built-out lens lineup. It's pretty much the only way that a smaller player like Sigma can release a system camera, since they probably need the volume from Canon and Nikon mount sales to produce any lenses at reasonable cost. They need to piggyback on the larger players' platforms in lens design.

    By the same token, I wonder whether the release of the Sony and m4/3 30mm f1.4 means they may be testing the waters of a pure mirrorless mount system in the future. If these systems can provide enough lens volume, Sigma can start developing a smaller mirrorless system camera. Or maybe we'll see a Sigma Quattro "DP2s" with the 30mm f1.4 lens instead of the f2.8 version.

    Unfortunately, Sigma still hasn't addressed what I think is the achilles' heel of these cameras--the horrendous SPP software that is basically required to get the best out of the RAW files. I could totally get on board with a specialty camera like the DPs or even a system like the SD, but SPP introduces another layer into the post-processing pipeline that leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I just want to import my files into Lightroom and edit, not have to import/export through SPP to Lightroom, creating and managing multiple files along the way. If anyone has a simple workflow for these Sigma files, I'd definitely take a harder look at a Sigma camera.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    I was initially confused about the size of this instrument.
    Its already on Camerasize - http://camerasize.com/compact/#669,293,624,ha,f

    Notably, click it in Camerasize to the top downview like here - http://camerasize.com/compact/#669,624,641,557,ha,t

    Its not insubstantial in size.
    If Sigma can tool up for the APS-H sensor for this body, will that appear in a DP2Q replacement?
    Here's hoping if it does the body style will be revisited.
    It is quiet big in deed with the big lens hump.

  36. #36
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Looking at the top down view, I am guessing that the lens flange distance will mean that say Leica M glass would not go on this camera?
    So while it is technically mirrorless, does it have that advantage of being able to use most lenses with adapters?

    Edit:
    Ok, so I think I can answer my own question as quoted here - Sigma announces sd Quattro and sd Quattro H Foveon mirrorless cameras: Digital Photography Review

    Both cameras use the company's full-depth SA lens mount as used in its SLRs, and are built around APS-C and APS-H sized sensors

    So my understanding is no glass shorter than SA mount.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Looking at the top down view, I am guessing that the lens flange distance will mean that say Leica M glass would not go on this camera?
    So while it is technically mirrorless, does it have that advantage of being able to use most lenses with adapters?
    No it will not only the ones with longer flange dintances like medium format lenses for example. Oh wow I could use some of my Pentax 645 lenses on it!

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    No it will not only the ones with longer flange dintances like medium format lenses for example. Oh wow I could use some of my Pentax 645 lenses on it!
    Very true, and the mind boggles at how all those Blad lenses and other will render. I guess we will see.
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  39. #39
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    No it will not only the ones with longer flange dintances like medium format lenses for example. Oh wow I could use some of my Pentax 645 lenses on it!
    I was thinking the same way, only Hasselblad glass.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    We need some adapters though. But the Chinese are fast....
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Prediction & porn -



    That's sort-of what I meant by my comment 'be careful what you wish for' - Sigma have listened to feedback from customers (possibly even this forum) and produced a mirrorless interchangeable camera with inbuilt EVF, just like we dreamed of.

    But we weren't specific enough about size!

    LouisB

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    I got used to high ISO possibilitys. Not looking forward to stay away above 600 ISO or so.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    SA-only lenses was a deal-breaker for me when I was considering Foveon in form of SD1M. Quattro sensor, though in APS-H size, makes it even less appealing. No in-body stabilization to help us with poor high iso performance? C'mon. I can understand the brand's desire to feature an updated body in Sigma lens ads, but I see nothing valuable in this proposition to photographers who don't own SA-mount lenses and have no desire to. Interesting body design though. I sincerely wish Sigma good luck with sales as I do like the brand.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    SA-only lenses was a deal-breaker for me when I was considering Foveon in form of SD1M. Quattro sensor, though in APS-H size, makes it even less appealing. No in-body stabilization to help us with poor high iso performance? C'mon. I can understand the brand's desire to feature an updated body in Sigma lens ads, but I see nothing valuable in this proposition to photographers who don't own SA-mount lenses and have no desire to. Interesting body design though. I sincerely wish Sigma good luck with sales as I do like the brand.
    I agree that this camera in E-mount with the option of having the MC-11 adapter included would've been more interesting to me. It would make more sense for Sigma to stick to making lenses and developing sensors for others than to continue making cameras.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    I can only guess at this, but maybe the reason for no IBIS is because they have 15 lenses with OS (Optical Stabilization). This is because they sell lots of lenses to Canon and Nikon shooters who do not have IBIS either. Again, just a guess.

    But, as I mentioned before, Sigma needs to get on the Adobe/Phase One bandwagon and become supported by software that professionals use if they want to be taken seriously.

    I was playing around with Camerasize and the Leica SL with the 50mm is actually smaller than the sd Quattro H + 50mm f/1.4 Art lens!

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    I've seen no hint of price? Anyone seen anything?

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    From my observation, i feel sigma is pitching this as an alterative to medium format system. That explains the low iso, no OS approach. Plus the new 50-100mm f1.8 on aps-H (assuming crop 1.3) gives 80-130mm pretty much has studio portrait written all over it.
    Last edited by UHDR; 23rd February 2016 at 23:12.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Quote Originally Posted by UHDR View Post
    wow....my pentax k-1 money suddenly got frozen!!
    Yep, same here! Here's an excerpt of what I just posted at the 'other' forum:

    D750 owner and long time Nikon user here... not too deep in Nikkor glass. The 50 1.4G, the 24-120, and two old manual lenses I grabbed from KEH. I really do love my D750 and have had a blast shooting with it.

    Increasingly, I was getting frustrated by the output. Don't ask me how or why, but I started to get into shooting church artwork and iconography. Guess I walked into a dark church one day to test my D750's low light focusing and ISO, grabbed some incredible shots and got hooked. But again, was becoming increasingly more particular as I improved my technique and peeped the final output.

    Which led me to Sigma, which I had flirted with the last few years.

    After doing the Merrill or Quattro tango for awhile, I settled on the DP2Q. And I love it. I knew the caveats going -- SPP is hog slow, don't shoot over ISO 100, tripod, no OVF, etc. I'm a tripod shooter anyway, have a fast MBP, so the caveats didn't scare me away. I've been loving my DP2Q the last few months and haven't touched my Nikon.

    But the Quattro's shortcomings have irked me, which are different than the D750's. The recent Quattro firmware update improved things, but it's left me wanting a better, more robust solution than the Quattros... even though I've been VERY tempted, I've held off on getting a DP0Q.

    So... here comes the Pentax K-1 a few days back and I think perfect, my wait is over. K-1 it is!

    And now this... damn you, Sigma. Seriously. I was going to invest in some Art lenses for my Nikon anyway, so buying some Sigma glass isn't a downside for me.

    My pennies were already saved for a K-1, thinking Sigma had nothing to offer. Boy, was I wrong.

    I have a lot of long, hard thinking to do. I'm probably leaning Quattro-H 51%/49% vs the K-1 at this point. I really want Pentax's pixel shift and in-body shake reduction, but their lens lineup concerns me.

    Probably the only thing keeping me from buying the Q-H is price. If it's under $2000 USD, I'm in. If it's more, then I'll go K-1. My concern, based on their history, is that Sigma will price this too high. I hope they have the balls to play rough with Pentax on price.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    Yes, the price for the H should be just under 2000 to be a serious contender otherwise it will have the same selling problem as the SD1 had.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro H

    After having seen the size comparisons, I am definitely out.

    This thing is even larger than the Leica SL ...

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