Site Sponsors
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 101 to 124 of 124

Thread: SD Quattro early lemon review -

  1. #101
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    108
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Quote Originally Posted by furtle View Post
    Thanks for finding this pretty blunt review. Other than what look like focusing problems, a couple of lines stood out for me:
    [I]

    On the 1:1:4 sensor " it represents a cop out for Foveon sensor model and clear move towards Bayer-like architecture.

    Of course, when moving towards Bayer sensor all subtleties of working with Bayer sensor also become relevant. Words like "moire", which used to be be dirty words in Sigma forums, are better become very familiar to Sigma users."
    He made some good points, but this is too simple. Quattro is technically still far from Bayer, even if the resulting "look" is moving towards Bayer.
    Also the "moire" thing is not correct. There is still no color moire with Quattro, but of course there is normal "moire" like it has always been the case with Foveon due to the lack of an AA filter.
    Sorry for the broken links to my photographs due to Dropbox policy changes.
    Gallery/500px
    http://pixelquality.blogspot.ch
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  2. #102
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Steady on Quentin :-)

    There has been some good stuff posted in the Facebook Sigma Camera Users Group from early adopter of the SDQ.

    And I'm still banging away with the DP0Q. In fact as I will announce shortly my first published book coming out in September features a number of photographs taken with the DP0Q which turned out fine.

    Just saying.
    I have to say I fully agree with this. Seems it's always the Usual Suspects in various fora banging about what a terrible piece of rubbish the Quattro is, and how everything was better in The Old Days, and how the very first DP2 is The Holy Grail / Lost Ark / Mother Teresa's sandals rolled into one. My photographic experience with DP2M / DP3M / DP0Q is that within their envelope they are fantastic. I have squinted and squinted but apart from Ligurian beach shots I can't find any sand. I can see lots of noise in under-exposed shadows, much as I can in pretty much every camera I've (mis)used.

    I see very little difference in rendition and detail between Merrill & Quattro, but I do find that the Quattro is far less likely to produce weird colour casts. The Quattro may be slightly more vivid in default SPP rendering, but that can easily be toned down. I do find that the DP0 handles better than the DP2M/DP3M, which are fairly disastrous without a 3rd party grip.

    I bought the DP0Q to use primarily in 21:9 mode, to see if it would replace my Hasselblad XPan, a camera I have used continuously since 1999. I actually have not take 1 frame with the XPan since I bought the DP0Q.

    There might be some noise - but less than from the best film scan I can achieve, and I'm good at scanning - and in neither case would it be visible in a print to anybody other than a technician.

    I'm not denying that there are some serious drawbacks to using Sigmas, or that my experience / requirements are mine alone, and not everybody else's, but at the same time, characterising them as just "rubbish" or whatever tells me more about the comments than the camera. And scaring people off withe wildly exaggerated defamation is not justified, however good it apparently makes The Usual Suspects feel.
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  3. #103
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,095
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    I've just read Sean Reid's review of the SDQ.

    Now I am not going to give anything away because Mr Reid's reviews are a pay-only service and I respect that.

    One reason why I subscribe to the site (on and off) is that he has consistently reviewed Sigma kit over the years and I get the impression Sigma do actually listen to him.

    All I will say about his review it is that it is balanced and it also contains some good sample photographs.

    LouisB

  4. #104
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I've just read Sean Reid's review of the SDQ.

    Now I am not going to give anything away because Mr Reid's reviews are a pay-only service and I respect that.

    One reason why I subscribe to the site (on and off) is that he has consistently reviewed Sigma kit over the years and I get the impression Sigma do actually listen to him.

    All I will say about his review it is that it is balanced and it also contains some good sample photographs.

    LouisB
    +1. A substantial review.

  5. #105
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    408
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Quote Originally Posted by davidrm View Post
    ...The Holy Grail / Lost Ark / Mother Teresa's sandals rolled into one....
    a little pathetic, all Sigmas were terrible cameras, but some people, eg.me, take that in purchase for the 1:1:1 sensor; if I want interpolated stuff I go with a modern Bayer camera from Pentax or Fuji or even Samsung and get a much better camera over all.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  6. #106
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,095
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    a little pathetic, all Sigmas were terrible cameras, but some people, eg.me, take that in purchase for the 1:1:1 sensor; if I want interpolated stuff I go with a modern Bayer camera from Pentax or Fuji or even Samsung and get a much better camera over all.
    I know you were tongue in cheek when you say "all Sigma's were terrible cameras" but in fact the DPxM range were pretty damn good. I like the minimalism on their operation which is a trademark of Japanese design and as long as you work within their limitations they perform very well indeed.

    In my case I bought the DP2M before buying a Sony Alpha RX1, followed by a A7, followed by a A7R and A7S. The only camera out of those four remaining is my DP2M.

    Difficult? Yes. But not disposable technology.

    Just my two cents.

    LouisB
    -----
    My new book "Whitechapel in 50 BUildings", Flikr Stream, www.louisberk.com
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  7. #107
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    1,972
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Quote Originally Posted by davidrm View Post
    I have to say I fully agree with this. Seems it's always the Usual Suspects in various fora banging about what a terrible piece of rubbish the Quattro is, and how everything was better in The Old Days, and how the very first DP2 is The Holy Grail / Lost Ark / Mother Teresa's sandals rolled into one. My photographic experience with DP2M / DP3M / DP0Q is that within their envelope they are fantastic. .
    No, its (largely, in my view) rubbish.

    Noise is just part of the problem, although a big one. The Merrills also suffered from noise, but with the Quattro and SD Quattro, it's worse, plus they clip highlights viciously, colour blotching in long exposures is extreme (there are plenty of examples of this on the web) and there is scarcely any resolution gain over the Merrills. What is there to like?

    Some might be upset that Quattros take a hammering. I'm upset because they are a wasted opportunity.

    But Sigma are a good company with great lenses, they might yet get it right.
    Quentin Bargate
    Co-Founder of Ajuve, Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2016, Photographer
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  8. #108
    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    720
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    The Merrills also suffered from noise, but with the Quattro and SD Quattro, it's worse, plus they clip highlights viciously, colour blotching in long exposures is extreme (there are plenty of examples of this on the web) and there is scarcely any resolution gain over the Merrills. What is there to like?
    There are a number of things to like in the Quattro lineup over their predecessors (mostly in camera responsiveness/battery life), but in terms of image quality the comparisons I've seen always show Quattro's advantage in color reproduction. Merrills tend towards less accurate or muted colors, whereas Quattro images seem to have more color depth and separation of tones. Some examples that might illustrate the difference:

    https://outlivingblog.wordpress.com/...-with-merrill/

    https://richardjwalls.com/2014/12/10...on-conclusion/

    The difference to me is not insignificant in these samples, and there's certainly an argument to be made for preferring the Quattro look.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    1,972
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    There are a number of things to like in the Quattro lineup over their predecessors (mostly in camera responsiveness/battery life), but in terms of image quality the comparisons I've seen always show Quattro's advantage in color reproduction. Merrills tend towards less accurate or muted colors, whereas Quattro images seem to have more color depth and separation of tones. Some examples that might illustrate the difference:

    https://outlivingblog.wordpress.com/...-with-merrill/

    https://richardjwalls.com/2014/12/10...on-conclusion/

    The difference to me is not insignificant in these samples, and there's certainly an argument to be made for preferring the Quattro look.
    I agree with many of those findings, but read the whole review, it is not exactly flattering of the Quattro. The Merrill has less accurate colour, although I have found it is a lot better in the DP3M (and not relevant when converted to monochrome). Note how bad the Q is compared with the Merrill with monochrome. Another flaw is the shape of the Quattro, and the size of the SD Quattro which makes them an unattractive proposition for use as a pano camera. The list goes on...
    Quentin Bargate
    Co-Founder of Ajuve, Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2016, Photographer

  10. #110
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    408
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    ... in fact the DPxM range were pretty damn good. I like the minimalism on their operation which is a trademark of Japanese design...
    I am in Sigma since SD9, but just for the sensor, all Sigmas are far away from state of the art camera building, maybe its difficult to build a good SLR body, but its not difficult to build a, at least soso lala, compact camera.
    And my DP2m isnt soso lala, its just bad. Bad display, NO live view, slow AF, very bad AF in low light, extrem energy waste, slow writing time etc. It just has the unique 1:1:1 sensor, and that was the only reason to buy Merrills.
    My first digicam was a Minolta F200, about 13 years ago, and apart from the sensor it was better than my DP2 and DP2m.
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  11. #111
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,085
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    As many said before, the only thing who can hook someone on a foveon camera is rendering at pixel level; all the other features are kind of nightmare. At a colour level, and after many years of use, only the DP3m show the best colour rendition in the merrill line. Some colour gradations aren't subtle sometime due to the 12 bit (?) data output (the foveon scream to a true 16bit data output). The difference in colour accuracy with the quattro is also because it is a 14 bit data output.

    That said, SIGMA missed the boat of quality at many levels. They should have, for once, abandoned their AF in the DP series by incorporating a true telemeter ala Leica. Slow camera, slow focus, slow operation but the pleasure of a rangefinder with super IQ. No more focus by wire, less batteries whore. Easy task because of the fixed lens. Of course live view stay the same.

    They should have made a longer or faster lens for the DP series. Why not a 70mm f1.4, well engineered, with apd filter like fuji or something really designed for bokeh ?

    In the SD line they should have made an improved SD merrill with LIVE VIEW... it is a real shame that the DP always has liveview and not the SD... since they use the same sensor. We never heard any explanations for this problem from sigma...

    Yes, the original DP2 (and DP2s) was holly grail for many shooters because it was the first ever APS-C compact camera. As I said, many leica users bought one back in the day, for per pixel sharpness, global rendering and ultra portability.

    The heavy blotching-green corners yadiyada found in those early camera was part of their charm. It was a kind of natural cross processing and it gave a soul to many pictures like expired film or something like that. It was magic.

    Now you see ppl vouching on the quattro ... saying that the sandy look is the pinnacle of film grain ... It is utter ridiculous. All of this is utter ridiculous and it is not your fault guys. It is SIGMA fault.

    Have you never heard this ? "Sigma Dp camera are the poor man leica !"

    I heard it for years because it was kind of true at a time because men behind this view was exceptional : Michihiro Yamaki as boss & Shinzo Fukui (aka gris) as communication manager/tester. Michihiro is no longer on hearth and Shinzo is no longer a sigma employee (maybe to sensible ??).


    The Quattro is specially designed for metrosexuals IMHO. Iphone design, supposedly easier in use... "Buy our cheap camera and then, buy our few art lenses. Maybe one of those lenses will address all the shortcoming of this cheap sensor !! ho ... and shoot jpeg "

    With the Quattro Sigma jumped from dedication to scale economy. Nothing more nothing less. Behind smile and PR they play a dangerous shark game and the "new" team try to impose their new view, a stinky view.

    Sigma cameras are no longer the poor man leica, at all. They are only weird disposable gadgets for weird ppl or ppl who think they are specials because they shoot something other don't have.

    Meanwhile for 700 bucks you can buy a D700 and you can invest in real compatible lenses like a 50 f1.2 or a zeiss 21 ... At the end IQ and functionality are far superior at a photographic level. D700 + a prime as as big as the quattro + art ... go figure lol !
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  12. #112
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,095
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Moi?

    "Metrosexual"?






    (I thought the thread needed some humour injected into it...)

    PS Huawei P9 front camera photo. Not bad, eh?
    -----
    My new book "Whitechapel in 50 BUildings", Flikr Stream, www.louisberk.com
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  13. #113
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    You have just disqualified yourself here,

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    ...
    And my DP2m isnt soso lala, its just bad. Bad display, NO live view, slow AF, very bad AF in low light, extrem energy waste, slow writing time etc. It just has the unique 1:1:1 sensor, and that was the only reason to buy Merrills.
    ..
    haven't you?

    'NO live view'? What's the LCD at the back of the DP2 Merrill for, then? I quite can't believe this statement.

  14. #114
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    408
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: You have just disqualified yourself here,

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumen View Post
    haven't you?

    'NO live view'? What's the LCD at the back of the DP2 Merrill for, then? I quite can't believe this statement.
    dont know what is live view for you, for me is live view to see changes in time and f stop on the display, ALL compact can do this but the DP cant. Try it yourself, set it to manual and change values, you never see the image you will get after click

  15. #115
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    RTFM - not to be rude, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    dont know what is live view for you, for me is live view to see changes in time and f stop on the display, ALL compact can do this but the DP cant. Try it yourself, set it to manual and change values, you never see the image you will get after click
    http://www2nd.sigma-photo.co.jp/down..._Manual_en.pdf

  16. #116
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    And this is what Live (Pre)View is about:

    'Live preview is a feature that allows a digital camera's display screen to be used as a viewfinder. This provides a means of previewing framing and other exposure before taking the photograph. In most such cameras, the preview is generated by means of continuously and directly projecting the image formed by the lens onto the main image sensor. This in turn feeds the electronic screen with the live preview image. The electronic screen can be either a liquid crystal display (LCD) or an electronic viewfinder (EVF).'

  17. #117
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    108
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Awful processed images, it hurts my eyes. Please take away any Merrill camera from this guy.
    Sorry for the broken links to my photographs due to Dropbox policy changes.
    Gallery/500px
    http://pixelquality.blogspot.ch

  18. #118
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,095
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneage View Post
    Awful processed images, it hurts my eyes. Please take away any Merrill camera from this guy.
    He seems to like sharpening his photos...

  19. #119
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    408
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: RTFM - not to be rude, of course

    What I remember came a printed manual with my DP2m, so thanks for the link but I dont really need it. I see an very interesting phenomen, some people believe in the manual and other believe in reality, so go and try it yourself to understand.
    My above mentioned Minolta showed a real preview and, if wanted, a zebra, thats an over exposure warning, like the Sigma shows after the click.
    And please try it yourself before you post other funny answers.

  20. #120
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    108
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    A user in the "other" forum made a comparison between the sd Quattro (in low resolution mode) vs. the original dp2:
    https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58888373

    I show my findings in this thread because i don't want to hijack the Quattro image threads in this forum too much and i'm not active in the other forum anymore.

    200% crops between sd Quattro "low res" vs. the original dp2:


    Obviously the original dp2 is superior. Yes it is less sharp (less over sharpened) but it is smooth and natural while the sd Quattro shows posterization and noise in the red and yellow surfaces.
    This is the second or third comparison between Quattro (low res) and the original dp cameras for me, and the result is the same every time.
    In my opinion Quattros flaws are not due to the 4:1:1 structure, it's because the sensor itself is flawed "by design".

    PS: Needless to say that people over there seems to like the Quattro image the most...

    Additional information:

    A conversion with luminance noise reduction set to the left (minimum):



    Posterization is highly reduced, noise becomes more visible.
    Last edited by Stoneage; 2nd January 2017 at 04:17. Reason: additional info
    Sorry for the broken links to my photographs due to Dropbox policy changes.
    Gallery/500px
    http://pixelquality.blogspot.ch
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  21. #121
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,085
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    I think I'll open a new thread for older foveons, just to put this quattro to shame at many levels.

    Just watched dpr... when they try compare sigma and medium format... I wonder where stupidity will end.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  22. #122
    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    720
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Seems silly to draw conclusions about the Quattro sensor based on the low-res output.

  23. #123
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    108
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    Seems silly to draw conclusions about the Quattro sensor based on the low-res output.
    Quattros 'high res' is well examined. The interesting part in the 'low res' processing is, that it should behave very much like the original Foveon. Personally i find it surprising that it can't match the output from the good old DP2 from 2009.

    But i agree, that we shouldn't make conclusions about the sensor itself. It's still possible that the SPP processing is flawed.
    For the user it makes no big difference though.
    Sorry for the broken links to my photographs due to Dropbox policy changes.
    Gallery/500px
    http://pixelquality.blogspot.ch
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  24. #124
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    10
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SD Quattro early lemon review -

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SDQ_0022.jpg 
Views:	46 
Size:	530.6 KB 
ID:	124414

    sdQ in Low rez with the 50-100mm art at iso100, 100mm, f1.8, 1/4000.

    Personally I love the 50-100 lens, its a little heavy but the IQ is very good and makes a good combo with the sdQ for many subjects like this portrait.

    Name:  SDQ_0080 - Copy.jpg
Views: 252
Size:  170.0 KB

    sdQ with 50-100mm f1.8 at iso100, 65mm, f1.8, 1/80 (full size resized to 1200px wide)

    Just my thoughts, hope you all enjoy.
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •