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Thread: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Sigma fp - looks like a return to the full foveon design (equal sized layers... hooray!) and now 60mp.

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/671974...-foveon-sensor

    https://youtu.be/s5e580-K2z8

    I didn't get it at first but then I thought M to L mount adaptor, Elmarit 28/2.8 ASPH and Summicron 40/2 and I'm done.

    LouisB
    Last edited by biglouis; 1 Week Ago at 07:25.
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    Senior Member peterb's Avatar
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    The concept video for the FP is simply stunning. Katsuo never ceases to amaze. His dad would be very proud.

    Now if the next gen Foveon can work on the noise created by amplifying the light that has to pass through so many layers of silicon THAT would truly be something.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    The concept video for the FP is simply stunning. Katsuo never ceases to amaze. His dad would be very proud.

    Now if the next gen Foveon can work on the noise created by amplifying the light that has to pass through so many layers of silicon THAT would truly be something.
    Agree. A company which deserves to succeed and be associated with Leica. BTW, I never had a problem with noise levels with my DP2M and DP3M because I only ever shot at iso100 (hehe).

    What I did have a problem with was the g-d awful Quattro sensor which blows highlights and generates weird artefacts. I still shot a lot with my DP0Q but again I had to be continually careful.

    Sadly, I suspect they will initially ask megabucks for the camera and then it will end up being heavily discounted which is when I'll put in my order. We should also be grateful for the fact that the body is not a silly design!

    I also hope it will support DNG from the beginning. Noise and highlight control got a whole lot better on the DP0Q once it has DNG support.

    LouisB
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Looks good. I wonder what the prices for the body and a few of the accessories will be. Body, hot shoe adapter/grip, and LCD viewfinder gizmo are kind of a minimum useful kit, for me, along with the Leica M Adapter L or R Adapter L. Since it's L-mount, I also wonder whether it will support Leica's lens profiles.

    As a versatile mini-technical-camera, it has some possibilities. I'll be watching.

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    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    It's a 24MP bayer sensor. Seems maybe DPR had some conflicting text at first. Does that dampen your excitement? It's still the smallest full-frame camera we've seen, which has me interested.

    Perhaps they will use the same modular body design for the 2020(?) Foveon version. I like the look of the FP paired with the 45/2.8 and a minor add-on grip. Makes me think they won't do a DP version though if the size would be similar.

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    It's a 24MP bayer sensor. Seems maybe DPR had some conflicting text at first. Does that dampen your excitement? It's still the smallest full-frame camera we've seen, which has me interested.

    Perhaps they will use the same modular body design for the 2020(?) Foveon version. I like the look of the FP paired with the 45/2.8 and a minor add-on grip. Makes me think they won't do a DP version though if the size would be similar.
    That is a great disappointment. Looks like my cash is safe. It looks like a great format and I am sure it will find its place but I already have an excellent 24mpx conventional bayer pocketable camera, albeit with a fixed lens - the Ricoh GRIII. Damn shame it is not Foveon as originally stated, damn, damn, shame.

    LouisB

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    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Your money is just safe for the time being... Sigma has definitively stated they'll be making a Foveon 1:1:1 60MP camera, so there are good odds that this will be at least close to the body style. Sigma is a small company so to save costs on tooling/manufacturing they will likely try to use many of the same parts, maybe with some minor modifications (e.g. probably no "Cine" mode on a Foveon sensor camera).

    I'll wait to see the Foveon version as well, but a DP model would be more exciting to me. I'm not super excited about adding an L-mount camera or switching from Sony; I'm pretty satisfied with the 42MP sensor and smaller (AF) lens options available.
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    I am really interesting in how they will get a Foveon sensor to work with an electronic shutter.

    A very interesting product. Fortunately, I spent my last $450 on a Fuji XF10, so no other cameras for me...
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    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I am really interesting in how they will get a Foveon sensor to work with an electronic shutter.

    A very interesting product. Fortunately, I spent my last $450 on a Fuji XF10, so no other cameras for me...
    Yeah I didn't realize there was no mechanical shutter. I wonder what the readout speed is with these.

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    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    Yeah I didn't realize there was no mechanical shutter. I wonder what the readout speed is with these.
    "1/15 sec. or less at 14bit", so the readout speed is very slow... It's interesting to see how noticeable a rolling shutter effect will be in a movie mode with a camera movement.
    12-bit cDNG with 12.5 stops of DR is not impressive for a raw recording (external) in 2019. Though, a promised future FW update to allow movie playback of cDNG footage in the camera is impressive. Shogun Inferno still can't do it.
    The flash photography with FP is a joke, unless Sigma plans to introduce leaf shutter lenses for L-mount

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    I agree about a DP model with the lovely 45mm equiv lens as a FF foveon Sigma. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

    LouisB

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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    .. Sigma has definitively stated they'll be making a Foveon 1:1:1 60MP camera....
    dont sure about that 1:1:1 thing, somewhere they stated it will be a Q.
    This Bayer Sigma will be the greatest flop ever, who is crazy enough to buy a Sigmabody without Merrill chip

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    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Source

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    dont sure about that 1:1:1 thing, somewhere they stated it will be a Q.
    Here is the proof of FF 1:1:1 Foveon structure: https://www.imaging-resource.com/new...over-from-dslr
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    The question to me isn't so much about the specifics of the technology but rather more "Do I have a legitimate use for this camera, or would I just be spending money for an interesting toy to fool with and then set aside?" I don't just want to add more to the accumulated closet full of interesting toys at this point ...

    I'm curious about this camera, so I'll keep watching. In the meanwhile, first goal is to pull out the Hasselblad 500CM and make some photos with it and see whether I really want to plan to spend the bux for the upcoming CFV50c II back...

    G

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    The question to me isn't so much about the specifics of the technology but rather more "Do I have a legitimate use for this camera, or would I just be spending money for an interesting toy to fool with and then set aside?" I don't just want to add more to the accumulated closet full of interesting toys at this point ...

    I'm curious about this camera, so I'll keep watching. In the meanwhile, first goal is to pull out the Hasselblad 500CM and make some photos with it and see whether I really want to plan to spend the bux for the upcoming CFV50c II back...

    G
    Yeah... that really looks good. I've been haunting ebay looking at s/h 500cms and thinking about that with the Distagon 50mm and the CFVII. <drool>

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    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    "1/15 sec. or less at 14bit", so the readout speed is very slow... It's interesting to see how noticeable a rolling shutter effect will be in a movie mode with a camera movement.
    12-bit cDNG with 12.5 stops of DR is not impressive for a raw recording (external) in 2019. Though, a promised future FW update to allow movie playback of cDNG footage in the camera is impressive. Shogun Inferno still can't do it.
    The flash photography with FP is a joke, unless Sigma plans to introduce leaf shutter lenses for L-mount
    Wow, that is not good. 1/15 is about the same as my A7rII and e-shutter is not good for anything moving at these speeds. Seems like a really big issue.

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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    What I really like about the Sigma FP is how well it channels the Argus C. Good designs never die...

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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    Wow, that is not good. 1/15 is about the same as my A7rII and e-shutter is not good for anything moving at these speeds. Seems like a really big issue.
    I would not even consider this Sigma to be any kind of general purpose still camera.
    It's a modular system, FF video camera box with still capabilities, a miniature FF technical camera in the still photography space, to me.

    I would buy one, presuming the price is reasonable, with that notion in mind if I figure a use for it that isn't already covered by my existing equipment.

    G

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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    I guess it’s nice that it has interchangeable lenses. But I see no EVF, and this has a 24 MP sensor instead of 42. So I’d much prefer either RX1r2 or new Leica Q for small FF camera.

    Kirk

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    Re: Source

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    Here is the proof of FF 1:1:1 Foveon structure: https://www.imaging-resource.com/new...over-from-dslr
    Amazing, what I have dreamed about, a FF Merrill with larger pixels^^

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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    I really hope this rumor is “off” because I think Sigma would like a winning product in the FP. I think this product can have wide appeal in the $1200-2500 range. Outside of that range and I fear it won’t move very well.

    https://www.l-rumors.com/the-new-sig...ery-expensive/
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I really hope this rumor is “off” because I think Sigma would like a winning product in the FP. I think this product can have wide appeal in the $1200-2500 range. Outside of that range and I fear it won’t move very well.
    That range is so broad, how could a 24MP camera not fit within it?

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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    That range is so broad, how could a 24MP camera not fit within it?
    If they decide to go the route of the SD1 that was originally priced at $9,000 for a 15 megapixel Foveon APS-C camera (advertised at a 45 megapixel one) if could be priced really high.
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    If they decide to go the route of the SD1 that was originally priced at $9,000 for a 15 megapixel Foveon APS-C camera (advertised at a 45 megapixel one) if could be priced really high.
    We are talking about the fp. It is a standard run of the mill 24MP FF Bayer sensor.

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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    We are talking about the fp. It is a standard run of the mill 24MP FF Bayer sensor.
    That doesn’t mean they’ll price it in that range... A9, D5, 1Dx, Leica Cameras, etc. are priced all over the place.
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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    That doesn’t mean they’ll price it in that range... A9, D5, 1Dx, Leica Cameras, etc. are priced all over the place.
    It's probably better to wait until Sigma announces the price and then decide whether it's worth it to you rather than running a dozen messages on whether or not a rumored price is too high or too low.

    G

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    Re: I am so glad Sigma is going to push me towards bankruptcy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    It's probably better to wait until Sigma announces the price and then decide whether it's worth it to you rather than running a dozen messages on whether or not a rumored price is too high or too low.

    G
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