Pentax full frame mirror less

[pophoto]

Hi all,

How do you Pentax users feel about them bringing out the first Fullframe ILC to market?

I can't help but feel although there are Pentax supporters, that the user base is shrinking and Pentax will no doubt struggle if they don't innovate and pioneer as a company. I know avid supporters may hate on thread, or what I may be trying to say. However, I feel a gap that Pentax might be able to fill, and I don't really think as a company they bring cameras to the right tune of many photographers.

However, I do feel the history of Pentax, they have held their own with Canon and Nikon, and they offer the best of pancake lenses in 35mm. Certainly something which will be invaluable if they decided on a full frame ILC.

On personal level I would love to see a come back from Pentax, I know others might not even feel they need to do anything and why on earth even a comeback, this thread isn't to insult Pentax, as agitate a discussion. I felt Fuji was in a similar position until they released their X100, and now their place in market has been completely changed.

Right now I feel Nikon, canon and Sony are playing a conservative and protective stance to protect their DSLR market, and while it understandable, I think a company that is flexible and takes certain calculated risks ultimately flourish. I don't want to discuss business practices here, so I hint it here just a little.
Sony is taking more risks, since their market share probably isn't so large (something i may need to clarify to sony users/fans later, but read between the lines for now) but they are invested but they have always been a pioneering company as well. So far Fuji and Sony are certainly the main companies exploring Full frame ILCs.

So where is Pentax? They can keep doing what they do, and keep things at that level or wow us all in like Fuji did in their come back to market with a fan base and certainly a lot innovation that makes us wonder about their next release.

Anyways, I'm just writing it as the idea came to mind, while certainly not a wise thing to do....so while certainly not thoroughly thought out I'll let others contribute to this discussion.

Thanks
Po

PS. Pentax can certainly do no worse than the Hasselblad Lunar.
PPS. I have a small hunch Olympus and Panasonic might explore larger sensors too.

 

[raist3d]

I honestly quite frankly do not understand why the obsession with "Pentax must do a full frame camera to be innovative/offer upgrade path/survive" meme of so many people that use their brand.

It almost seems to me like it's part of the "I need a better camera so I can be a better photographer" mentality. I say this in general. We could be talking about another brand and same the same things.

Quick example- look where micro four thirds is- smaller sensor than APS_C and not a care about doing a full frame version. Fuji with their Xtrans APS-C.

If the K-5 was a bad camera I could understand but the K-5 is a superb camera. Superb best in class ergonomics. Best in class APS-C sensor. Full range of lenses. AF being one of the issues, not re-attacked in the K-5 II. I honestly don't understand the FF obsession and why a company innovating at the APS-C level "isn't enough." Or why someone who just got a K-5 just 1-2 years ago wants a FF model "or else" kind of mentality. It really escapes me.

- Raist

 

[Steen]

Maybe for the same reason Pentax made the 645D digital medium format camera: the larger the photosites, the better the image quality ?

 

[mediumcool]

Show me the lenses for 24 x 36 format!

On Pentax’s “roadmap”, I count five FA lenses, none of them zooms.

 

[Shashin]

Right now I feel Nikon, canon and Sony are playing a conservative and protective stance to protect their DSLR market, and while it understandable, I think a company that is flexible and takes certain calculated risks ultimately flourish. I don't want to discuss business practices here, so I hint it here just a little.

Sony is really conservative. Bring inexpensive 35mm DSLRs to the market then abandoning the moveable mirror to a fixed translucent one. The new Sony a99 will have phase contrast detection on the sensor. Nikon putting a 36MP sensor in their DSLR and pushing that performance to great nights. Apparently Canon is making a 40+MP camera. Yes, very conservative. Especially since Sony has just announced the RX1.

As far as Pentax goes, which medium-format model camera by Nikon, Canon, or Sony do you think is more cutting edge? And why do you think Pentax should go to a smaller sensor?

Just because these companies keep mirrors does not mean they are conservative.

 

[pophoto]

Shashin, I am afraid you misunderstand, I am saying the manufacturers have been conservative with the mirror less market since they seem to be fully in the DSLR market.
However, I don't think Pentax has the same market share as the other big three, and could afford the freedom to make a move in a new market for themselves.

 

[Shashin]

Sony has made the jump, it will release a FF mirrorless. Leica has several models.

The DSLR is made because it is popular--that is what customers want. Developing a entirely new system is really expensive and if the demand is not there--and enthusiasm on photo forum don't actually translate into sales--companies can lose a lot of money. I don't think Pentax has the resources. Pentax also has other systems it has committed to, the 645D in particular. To bring in a new expensive system is going to be a huge burden.

Right now there seem to be only two players, Sony and Leica. And with Sony, because they are building the AF into the sensor, it might not be a big jump from taking the a99 and making it mirrorless.

 

[Bugleone]

I have used pentax kits twice over the last 30 years,.....a film system and laterly a DSLR which I never did bond with and eventually ditched in favour of Sony NEX,....with which I have been much more successful using a range of old glass/adaptors.

There is no doubt in my mind that the SLR format has had it's day an dnot everyone wants the kind of solution to photo use that the DSLR forces one into. Personally, I find DSLR's to be awkward and irritating to use because I formerly used medium format film cameras partcularly Rolleiflex models and never took to 35mm SLR's forcing me to operate in particular ways. Since changing to NEX I have found that people are much less intimidated by the camera and I now take what photos I want, where I want and of whom I want. The pentax dslr was (to me) heavy, complicated, bulky, clumsy and annoying to use and carry. I was also bound by the quirky choice of lenses that pentax thought I should use,..for instance there is STILL no f2 moderate wide after 12 years of making DSLR's...!!? Sony announced it's 24mmf1.8 within months of main launch.

The 'black blob' SLR is very old tech,....all pentax models can be traced back to the Canon T90 which was revolutionary when launched and changed the SLR market in one fell swoop.

The annoying thing about this is that pentax used to pride itself on innovation, but has turned it's face to the wall recently,......a few poorly designed 'bottle top' lenses with zero ergonomics and a badly styled 'designer cam' don't make a system. There is more to digtal camera design than sticking a sensor into essentially the same cameras that you have been making for 30 years,...with the freedom of electronics many new ways of capturing digital photo files become possible, yet, pentax seems oblivious to the vast opportunities this offers for some well concieved innovation.

There is some interesting work beign done not only by the electronics giants who have muscled in on the photo market, but also by some of the more innovative companies,..jsut take a look at the new cameras by Alpa at the Photokina,..there are plenty of market gaps to exploit but pentax seems oblivious.

I pentax can come out with a flat mirrorless body system with larger sensor than APS-C,..perhaps even a square sensor 23mm each side and fast handling without the need to physically turn the body for horiz/vert formating and RAW file from full sensor,..plus quality remote/electronic V/F, with facility to use any lens I want to, then I will start to scrape my pennies together and return once more to pentax,.....Alpa has already shown the way in this for medium format back, and it's only a matter of time until someone does a scaled down version for semi-pro use, so why not think about it Mr Pentax?

 

[raist3d]

Maybe for the same reason Pentax made the 645D digital medium format camera: the larger the photosites, the better the image quality ?

Seems like you missed my point. The K-5 already has superb image quality. What exactly is the jump everyone wants to full frame? It's almost like some sort of inferiority complex. And hey, if someone *really wants* extra image quality, then get the 645D! Pentax surely makes one with full lens line up.

- Raist

 

[raist3d]

I have used pentax kits twice over the last 30

The annoying thing about this is that pentax used to pride itself on innovation, but has turned it's face to the wall recently,......a few poorly designed 'bottle top' lenses with zero ergonomics and a badly styled 'designer cam' don't make a system. There is more to digtal camera design than sticking a sensor into essentially the same cameras that you have been making for 30 years,...with the freedom of electronics many new ways of capturing digital photo files become possible, yet, pentax seems oblivious to the vast opportunities this offers for some well concieved innovation.

I would really love to know how you reach the conclusion that Pentax has turned its face to a wall lately. The Q system (yes the Q system) is quite innovative. So is the K-5 and the K-30 (first DSLR weather sealed with a great sensor under $1k? Come on).

There is some interesting work beign done not only by the electronics giants who have muscled in on the photo market, but also by some of the more innovative companies,..jsut take a look at the new cameras by Alpa at the Photokina,..there are plenty of market gaps to exploit but pentax seems oblivious.

Meh, you could say the same thing about many others. Quite frankly, I think the Q system was a bold move on Pentax's behalf.. a system that is now selling and they confirmed they are continuing it, a system that after all the derision it got for having a "small sensor" is taking off a bit, and has its advantages for street life work.

I pentax can come out with a flat mirrorless body system with larger sensor than APS-C,..perhaps even a square sensor 23mm each side and fast handling without the need to physically turn the body for horiz/vert formating and RAW file from full sensor,..plus quality remote/electronic V/F, with facility to use any lens I want to, then I will start to scrape my pennies together and return once more to pentax,.....Alpa has already shown the way in this for medium format back, and it's only a matter of time until someone does a scaled down version for semi-pro use, so why not think about it Mr Pentax?

Why don't you say the same thing about Canon. Or Nikon. Or Sony for that matter. Seems that we have again this very specific set of things on which we call a company innovative or not innovative. In the meantime Pentax releases the K-5 IIs which lacks the AA filter, something no other DSLR manufacturer is doing in this market level....

- Raist

PS: I am not saying Pentax couldn't be more innovative in certain areas, but again, the same could be said of everyone. I just don't buy they aren't flat out innovative at all, which is what I am reading seems to suggest.

 

[Steen]

Seems like you missed my point. The K-5 already has superb image quality. What exactly is the jump everyone wants to full frame? It's almost like some sort of inferiority complex. And hey, if someone *really wants* extra image quality, then get the 645D! Pentax surely makes one with full lens line up.

- Raist

Sure, Raist, I'd love to get a 645D, it's just that Medium Format is still far too expensive for my taste since the average life cycle of digital cameras is rather limited.

I personally think the general rule still counts that "the larger the photosites, the better the image quality".

From there I just pick the Price to Quality Ratio that I regard as the sweet spot. For me.

 

[Steen]

Show me the lenses for 24 x 36 format!

On Pentax’s “roadmap”, I count five FA lenses, none of them zooms.

I do agree with you, cool, that the lens lineup will be the biggest challenge.

But now there's this rumor that "Tokina has renewed their discussions with Pentax about reviving their lens collaboration" (...)

Tokina Confirms Pentax Full-frame Under Development - Pentax Camera News & Rumors - PentaxForums.com

So far nothing but a rumor.

We'll see ...