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Thread: What printers for large prints....

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    What printers for large prints....

    Moderator Edit:
    This thread is being carried over from a conversation on the Medium Format Forum. The thread was getting off topic but the subject matter warrants its own thread. The Medium format thread can be found here:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21908

    Terry



    Hi Marc,

    You are about 5 years ahead of me on the retirement schedule (I HOPE!) and I am going to watch your progress like a hawk.

    I think the 4900 is a great option ... I have had one sitting in my cart at BH for almost a week...but all of the complaints about head clogging has kept me from pulling the trigger. And this is from one who has used Epson forever with Colorbyte IP. I have an Epson 3800 and can let it sit for months and with a small clearing cycle get perfect prints. Wasting paper and time does not appeal to me.


    Look at the Lula threads about the 7900 and the IPF 8300/6300's.

    I do think that 24 inch printers will serve you better than a 17 inch...especially with 3x4 or 5x7 rather than 2x3 format. Uncurling the paper will not be that big of a deal.

    Andy Biggs just dropped a 9900 and kept the IPF 8300 as he was having severe problems with the clogging. He also has a HP printer. I have his BW African safari limited edition print portfolio...printed on Moab Entrada Rag and the man can print....knows his stuff.

    http://www.theglobalphotographer.com...available.html

    I will probably run with the Canon IPF 6350 and use my Eye One Extreme to profile papers...with rebate and special pricing it is less than the 4900.


    Should you get adventurous with your vacation time I can recommend a few wonderful Non-GHO's who would love to avail themselves of your expertise...

    For instance:

    http://www.mercyships.org/volunteer/index/

    Specifically:

    Videographer bottom of page

    http://www.mercyships.org/positions/P40/

    These guys have no idea how you could improve their material...and not really need intense video...your wedding skills would blow them away. Take a look around the website and blog:

    http://www.mercyships.org/pages/mercyships-mission

    http://www.mercyships.org/news


    I am seriously jealous at your opportunities...keep us posted.

    And congratulations. Well deserved. Spend it well.

    Bob
    Last edited by Terry; 15th December 2010 at 19:50.

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    Re: New Purpose & help with MFD gear.

    Oh...

    If you go with them I will let you take my Sony EX1R....

    No need to get additional stuff!


    Bob

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    Re: New Purpose & help with MFD gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Hi Marc,


    I think the 4900 is a great option ... I have had one sitting in my cart at BH for almost a week...but all of the complaints about head clogging has kept me from pulling the trigger.
    Bob
    Where are you seeing info on head clogging on the 4900??? I have one on the way and will change to a 7900 or stick with my 3800 if there are truly problems. I was at a seminar at Calumet and the instructor a well known photographer who does his own printing has been using the printer for a while (I believe he is a tester) and was raving about the 4900.

    Marc - not trying to hijack here. Sorry

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    Re: New Purpose & help with MFD gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Where are you seeing info on head clogging on the 4900??? I have one on the way and will change to a 7900 or stick with my 3800 if there are truly problems. I was at a seminar at Calumet and the instructor a well known photographer who does his own printing has been using the printer for a while (I believe he is a tester) and was raving about the 4900.

    Marc - not trying to hijack here. Sorry
    No Prob ... discussion gets it all out before any dollars go bye-bye

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    Re: New Purpose & help with MFD gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Where are you seeing info on head clogging on the 4900??? I have one on the way and will change to a 7900 or stick with my 3800 if there are truly problems. I was at a seminar at Calumet and the instructor a well known photographer who does his own printing has been using the printer for a while (I believe he is a tester) and was raving about the 4900.

    Marc - not trying to hijack here. Sorry
    Terry,

    My assumption is that the head is using the exact tech in the 79/9900....all sorts of threads where many individuals are having problems with clogs in those machines. It is a problem that seems sporadic and perhaps related to humidity and frequency of use....higher humidity and commercial use seems to be less likely to experience this problem. However one would assume that Guy (in Arizona) would have seen this with his 7900 if the low humidity is the only issue.

    As I print in spells with long intervals in between I am loathe to be the first to jump on the new printer until we know if its experience parallels that of its larger predecessors. Hope that my concerns are unfounded as I have always loved the 3800 output with Image Print.

    If this is not out of line, I would refer you to the newest thread concerning this ... as of this past week:

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/fo...?topic=49500.0

    Again, the technology is derivative in the 4900 from these printers and there has been no mention of improvement or change with regard to this problem so caution may be in order.

    Additionally, there is some suggestion of pizza wheel marking in the 4900 for thicker paper stock.

    Objectively the straight paper path, multipaper support and third party RIP software still makes it a compelling choice. I held off on buying a 4880 for a year in expectation of the 4900...not enough news about Epson rectifying this "problem?" to make me completely at ease with it as a first choice. Having said that I am not in a production environment and losing a bit of time is not crucial....however I tend to change printers only when a new threshold has been attained with respect to output.

    A 24 inch Canon IPF 63/6350 at less than the Epson is tempting as the heat process in the Canon and HP line seems to obviate some of the clog issues found in the Epson.

    I would love to hear others impressions so I can clear my shopping cart or have the 4900 shipped.

    Thanks,

    Bob

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    Re: New Purpose & help with MFD gear.

    Adding to the off topic-ness.

    I own a ipf6100. I love it. I had a Epson 2200 before it that just clogged and clogged. My printer sits for a month between runs with no clogs and it fires up and delivers 100-200 linear feet of 24" wide prints without batting an eyelash.

    --Mark
    http://gallery.virtuousphotography.com

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    Re: New Purpose & help with MFD gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Where are you seeing info on head clogging on the 4900??? I have one on the way and will change to a 7900 or stick with my 3800 if there are truly problems. I was at a seminar at Calumet and the instructor a well known photographer who does his own printing has been using the printer for a while (I believe he is a tester) and was raving about the 4900.

    Marc - not trying to hijack here. Sorry
    Terry,

    Can you spin this part of the thread from #22 on off into a new thread....would like to return to Marc's original post and keep it on topic.

    Apologies to all for sending this out of bounds.

    Bob

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    Hi Bob,
    I read that thread on LuLa...so far it seems that on the 4900 there is one pro side and one con side for the printer. Some of the cons come from previous printer models. I was one that hasn't had problems with my 3800. Larger than a 4900 isn't overly practical for me as an apartment dweller. Decisions, decisions

    I've asked Jack and others about the 7900 and nozzle cleaning. I know Jack has to clean nozzles on a pretty regular basis, especially if the printer has been sitting for a few days/week. But then I ask the follow on question, "would you switch to Canon or HP" and I get back an emphatic "h*ll no - the images off the Epson are friggin gorgeous"




    .

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    I love my 7900. It gets a clogged channel if I let it sit more than three or four days without use. So I have to do a simple 2-channel nozzle clean to clear it -- takes maybe 3 minutes and burns a few ml of ink. If I let it sit a few weeks, then I get usually two clogged channels and have to do an all-channel clean. This takes 5 or 6 minutes and burns a bigger few ml of ink. If I've let it sit a month, I may need to repeat the full clean a second time to get everything flowing. Yes, that's a PITA but...

    I *LOVE* the print quality. Great sharpness, color, saturation, linearity and repeatability across a variety of stocks. I love the output so much that I'll gladly put up with having to clean before each major print job. I get the best WYG after my WYSI that I've ever gotten. I love it so much I have not even considered other options. In fact, I am so pleased overall that if my 7900 were stolen tomorrow, I would have another on order inside an hour. But maybe the 9900 instead

    Now re the 4900. The only potential negative issue I have, is the pizza wheel thing -- if that is a reality on the 4900 then it's a shame. And more shame on Epson for not addressing it...
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    Just wandet to add my Experience, especially because you often only hear negative things in forums.

    My old 7880 never had clogging problems. Even after 2-3 months it wa fine and if sometimes after such a long time one color was clogged, one small cleaning was enough.

    My 9900 is also doing great so far. In the beginning I had to clean it every day for 5-7 days, but only 2 colors at a time. Now it looks much better in the last 3 weeks I had no clogging and even are the printer w off for more than two weeks.

    Perhaps I'm only lucky, but I really think it ha something to do with humidity. ( mine is very constant at 49-52%

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I love my 7900. It gets a clogged channel if I let it sit more than three or four days without use. So I have to do a simple 2-channel nozzle clean to clear it -- takes maybe 3 minutes and burns a few ml of ink. If I let it sit a few weeks, then I get usually two clogged channels and have to do an all-channel clean. This takes 5 or 6 minutes and burns a bigger few ml of ink. If I've let it sit a month, I may need to repeat the full clean a second time to get everything flowing. Yes, that's a PITA but...

    I *LOVE* the print quality. Great sharpness, color, saturation, linearity and repeatability across a variety of stocks. I love the output so much that I'll gladly put up with having to clean before each major print job. I get the best WYG after my WYSI that I've ever gotten. I love it so much I have not even considered other options. In fact, I am so pleased overall that if my 7900 were stolen tomorrow, I would have another on order inside an hour. But maybe the 9900 instead

    Now re the 4900. The only potential negative issue I have, is the pizza wheel thing -- if that is a reality on the 4900 then it's a shame. And more shame on Epson for not addressing it...

    As I read Jacks experience I have to echo the same operation experience. Obviously we do talk about our printers offline a lot but I do get a clog here and there if i let it sit for a couple days or sometimes i can go as long as a week. Now I'm in AZ which is a much drier climate and I actually expected it to be more of a issue because it is also very hot here. But it seems about the same. If i let it sit i do a quick nozzle check and it also cuts off about 3 inches of paper which if the roll is sitting on some paper exhibition fiber i may get a roller mark anyway so I kill two birds with one stone. Rarely do i every get two clogs at once usually it is one .

    One thing not mentioned which maybe obvious but I will bring it up anyway is use of ink. Having 11 inks some go faster than others. I still am running the original orange ink from purchase and on the other hand have gone through 3 Light Light greys. So now some color I will buy in larger sizes and some in the smaller sizes. After your first purchase run you will see what is running more than the others and you can adjust your purchasing to match if you will. These inks for the 7900 and 9900 comes in three different sizes so that purchasing of ink can be handled in the different colors and size which is actually some cost savings here. Buying Orange lets say in a big size would surely be somewhat of a waste since it may take a long time to use it up.

    In the end though I love this printer and Epson does a very nice job on the profiles and there is very little tweaking going on. I do have a NEC 30 inch wide gamut and the combo together is amazing on what my output is in relation to my monitor. It is pretty dead on the money every time.

    The 4900 sounds very promising and we will have to see how that all shakes out but given the what I am getting on the 7900 with these inks , i would certainly buy it. As a gear slut and if I could actually fit a 9900 in my office sure love to have one. If money was not a issue and if i did a lot more printing than the 9900 /4900 combo would be killer. But have to say going to MF i get everything I paid for from that system in regards to detail and everything else on the 7900. I have a 24 inch by 60 inch Pano stapled to my outside wall of my office/garage and it is a friendly reminder to me of the WOW factor with my whole setup. It's a nice reminder that your money is well spent. In reality I don't need another back ever or printer . I could not be happier but of course that gear slut in me will always want more but it could be just a waste. The combo really does rock the house.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    Hi There
    Well, I'm not in the market for a new printer right now, having replaced my elderly 4000 with a 3880 a few months ago.
    Still, the 3880 does a grand job, and has been very busy over the last few weeks - lots of print runs and no clogged heads. I used to get infuriated on long runs with the 4000, where it would clog up in the middle, thus wasting lots of paper and ink if you weren't watching.

    On the other hand i do miss the roll paper option . . . . and I would like a 7900 too!

    Still, the 3880 does pretty good A2+ prints reasonably economically.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    need to remember the 7900 is no small printer. Figure this at the minimum 3ft from the wall and almost 5 ft wide and it stands 4ft tall give or take on dimensions . I'm eye balling it. It's a fixture in my office let me tell ya. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: New Purpose & help with MFD gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by mvirtue View Post
    Adding to the off topic-ness.

    I own a ipf6100. I love it. I had a Epson 2200 before it that just clogged and clogged. My printer sits for a month between runs with no clogs and it fires up and delivers 100-200 linear feet of 24" wide prints without batting an eyelash.

    --Mark
    http://gallery.virtuousphotography.com
    Exactly my experience. I've had my iPF6100 for 3 years now without a single issue. I came from a previous Epson 4000 which was a very poor performer both in terms of print quality and maintenance issues. I'm sure that the current generation of Epson large format printers are fine, but I'm not likely to go back. I run the 6100 using custom rgb profiles made with a colomunki and use the TrueB&W rip from Bowhaus for B&W work. The latter makes excellent sepia and warm/neutral monochrome prints. Neutral B&W from the rgb profiles is also very good.
    Carl
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    Re: New Purpose & help with MFD gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Exactly my experience. I've had my iPF6100 for 3 years now without a single issue. I came from a previous Epson 4000 which was a very poor performer both in terms of print quality and maintenance issues.
    HI There
    I had the Epson 4000 too, and I agree with you - leave it for a week and it cost a fortune in ink to get it running again.

    I also take Guy's point about the size of these printers.

    The 3880, being A2+ is no competitor for the A1 printers, but my experiences in 9 months is that there have been no ink clogs, and it's worked really nicely, added to which it's relatively small, and all closes up into a manageable rectangular box (which you can easily(ish) carry about). Obviously, if you need A1, then it's a non-contender, but if you don't, then it seems to me to be a pretty good performer, both in terms of print quality and maintenance.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    The Epson 38/3880 printers may have been printer from Epson with the least problem with clogs.

    Paper handling is my one complaint with the machine...any thick paper you need to babysit to get the feed started.

    GREAT printer otherwise....

    Now I am beginning to think the 4900 may be the one.

    Bob

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    Bob if it is anything image wise to the 7900 i would be all over it, which I totally expect it to be. Sheet fed on a 7900 is not my idea of joy. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    Guy,

    Point well put. And I have 30+ boxes of paper......

    Bob

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    We have the 4900 for one week now, so far no issues. We're out for a trip
    over the holidays and come back early next year so we'll switch the printer off for 2 weeks. I will report on any clogging issues when we're back.

    Cheers,
    Ralf

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    I just bought the IPF 8300. The net cost of the printer (after Canon's rebate) was around $2,400.00! That is less than the cost of a set of inks. And ... the vendor even threw in a free iPad.

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    Quote Originally Posted by ftbt View Post
    I just bought the IPF 8300. The net cost of the printer (after Canon's rebate) was around $2,400.00! That is less than the cost of a set of inks. And ... the vendor even threw in a free iPad.
    That is an incredible deal. Care to say which vendor? I don't think I have space for an 8300 (as much as I would like to print that big), so I may do an 6300.

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I love my 7900. It gets a clogged channel if I let it sit more than three or four days without use. So I have to do a simple 2-channel nozzle clean to clear it -- takes maybe 3 minutes and burns a few ml of ink. If I let it sit a few weeks, then I get usually two clogged channels and have to do an all-channel clean. This takes 5 or 6 minutes and burns a bigger few ml of ink. If I've let it sit a month, I may need to repeat the full clean a second time to get everything flowing. Yes, that's a PITA but...

    I *LOVE* the print quality. Great sharpness, color, saturation, linearity and repeatability across a variety of stocks. I love the output so much that I'll gladly put up with having to clean before each major print job. I get the best WYG after my WYSI that I've ever gotten. I love it so much I have not even considered other options. In fact, I am so pleased overall that if my 7900 were stolen tomorrow, I would have another on order inside an hour. But maybe the 9900 instead

    Now re the 4900. The only potential negative issue I have, is the pizza wheel thing -- if that is a reality on the 4900 then it's a shame. And more shame on Epson for not addressing it...
    Jack,

    Just out of curiousity----Have you measured the relative humidity in your printer room? I have a couple extra humidifiers, new, never used, in the box (don't ask) if you want one to try and see if it makes a difference. Hygrometers are inexpensive as well....

    ken

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Jack,

    Just out of curiousity----Have you measured the relative humidity in your printer room?
    No. My office is commercial and air-conditioned, and I do not live particularly close to the coast, so I suspect I'm about as dry as Guy's Arizona environment. I am sure I would rather do the occasional print-head cleaning than having a humidifier running in the background 24-7
    Jack
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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    That is an incredible deal. Care to say which vendor?
    LexJet in Florida. Send me a PM and I will give you the name of the person who I dealt with. However, I believe their iPad promotion is over ... and Canon's special pricing is also about over as well. FWIW, they are out of 8300's and are awaiting shipments from Japan and Europe to fill the back orders. If you are serious, I would give them a call ASAP.

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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    Well I have an hp z3100 and I love it. Much cheaper to run then an epson the epson's drain ink like a vampire wants blood. I do have a epson 3880 for a back up and desktop printer. and had an epson 7600. I would look at an hp z 3200 if I were looking at something new.

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    Re: New Purpose & help with MFD gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Terry,

    My assumption is that the head is using the exact tech in the 79/9900....all sorts of threads where many individuals are having problems with clogs in those machines.
    Bob
    Certainly a logical assumption. However, the jury is still out on the 4900 for a couple of reasons.

    While one might assume the 4900 uses the exact same head, it very well could be even current 79/9900's not longer use the exact same head ... ie the head design could be evolving and improving. Even if that isn't the case, Epson may very well have needed to redesign a smaller head for the 4900 chassis.

    However, the real reason the jury is still out on the 4900 is the fact that most Epson 790/9900 "clogs" really aren't clogs. This is especially true where you see most or entire channels just disappearing. I have a couple of theories, and Epson certainly would never admit to anything (like most big companies), but personally I believe the underlying problem in the 79/9900's is a pressure problem. I think part of it is related to the new cartridge design, and other is the ink pressure system itself. I've seen a lot of anecdotal evidence of this, including epson having to replace the pump/pressure assembly on my printer because it kept losing the entire green channel ... every single nozzle.

    I also wonder if the printer sits running for a while if it is allowing slight amounts of air to pull back into the nozzles. You can't tell the difference between a "clog" and a nozzle that just doesn't have any ink to it.

    So there is a distinct possibility the new 4900 required new engineering, and while certainly based on the 79/9900 it might involve some improvements.

    Time will tell (and I'll add my .02 here that my 7900 works just fine, rarely clogs, and personally think it is has the highest quality output, especially from very high resolution files such as my p65+).
    wayne
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    Re: What printers for large prints....

    Wayne,

    FWIW, I buy into the air leak-back being the issue. I am fine if I print every other day, never seem to loose a channel. But if it sits for say two weeks, I will print a nozzle check fine then loose say the Cyan channel in it's entirety and have to do a clean -- like an air bubble developed behind the head and some ink flowed back in around it.

    It's a theory anyway
    Jack
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