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Thread: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Just finished a nice shoot on a neighbors new baby. High interest in the neighborhood as the Dad and Mom are close to 70 and 50 . The prints are sort of muddy with blotchy highlights on the skin . I need to figure this out soon.

    Ok this is normally one of two problems....hope someone can check my thinking...

    1. Both the application(Lightroom ) and the printer(Epson 2400) are attempting to manage the color ? Lightroom print module is set to use the Epson paper profile(just some double sided enhanced matte I use for proofing and samples). The epson print driver is set to let the application manage the color. (no color management).

    2. The other common problem is a clogged print head. Ran the tests and cleaned the heads .

    Just to see if I could eliminate somethings ..I also set Lightroom to let the printer manage the color and the print driver to manage the color....exact same results?

    Any ideas would be appreciated .


    Roger Dunham

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Enhanced Matte has a printing side and a backing -- it may seem obvious, but are you sure you printed on the coated side?
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  3. #3
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Jack Its actually Premium Presentation Double sided and that is the epson profile I used. This looks exactly like double profiling to me . I will try this morning to print from photoshop to see if I can eliminate Lightroom settings as an issue. Thanks Roger

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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Having same issue printing with Aperture when trying it for printing vs CS3. CS3 (now with 10.1 update), no worries, but Aperture 2.0 ... Proper profile selected, printer CM turned off, etc - test prints looks 2x profiled. Gave up - will stick with CS3 for printing for now.

    The more I read on various forums about the myriad of (apparent) 2x profiling issues that occur with each new printer model or software update from people that apparently know what they're doing, the more I think some serious collaborative work needs to take place between Adobe/Apple on the software side and Epson/Canon/HP on the hardware side.

    I mean how hard can it be? Printer CM is turned off, so keep it off. Here's the image's imbedded profile and the ICC profile from the paper maker, so communicate those to the printer driver. Now preview my image as best you can for the profile selected (within limits of course) and print my #$% picture accordingly. Allah knows we don't have enough stuff to tinker with at either end of what should be this simple pipeline process.

  5. #5
    Daniel_Jafari
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    I have problem with double color management which results in wrong and very sturated printouts on a Canon PIXMA MG6150. I let Photoshop manage colors, choose my own ICC-profile for the specific paper. Turn off color management in the printer, but it seems like it does not understand that it should not do it. the result is a double managed print out.
    I have tried to solve the problem in about 1 month and Canon support in does not help at all.

    P.S! I use Windows Vista as OS.

    Any work around?

    Regards
    Daniel

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    Subscriber Member weinschela's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    On a Mac (OSX 10.7.2) and CS5, if I make sure printer color management is off (Epson 3800 and 3880) and Photoshop only is managing colors, this problem does not occur. On a Canon Selphy in same system, Photoshop color management is off and printer color management on, and no problems either. For the OP, I don't know if something changed since CS3 or if it is something in the 2400 driver but when I had a 2400 a couple of years ago I did not have this issue either. It definitely sounds like a driver conflict. One approach is to make sure the print driver is the current driver, and to delete the printer and reinstall the driver(s). Also, check to make sure that one or two of your ink cartridges aren't running down. I have seen bad results from old cartridges that are not close enough to empty to trigger a "replace" warning. Finally, what happens when you print a test page? Or print something not out of Lightroom.
    Alan

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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Hi Roger,

    on http://digitaldog.net/ towards bottom of page a link to the ins and outs of colour management in lightroom - may be of interest.

    Best wishes,

    Ray

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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    The prints are sort of muddy with blotchy highlights on the skin .
    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    This looks exactly like double profiling to me .
    This isn't how I would describe a typical "double profile" problem- which normally results in an exceptionally dark print. this sounds more like a profile mismatch, or a case where printer managed color and the application managed color, (one of your suspicions). This is not double profiling because the printer is applying transforms based on default settings plus slider tweaks, not really a profile.

    Another way this can happen is if you are using lab rather than RGB and make some tweaks ... unless you are very good at lab blocked up colors are quite typical.

    On the mac double profiling is normally the result of both the application and OS (colorsync) applying a profile before the data hits the driver. I"m not sure Windows even has an equivalent to colorsync so I'm not sure this happens on a PC.

    Sorry, not much help.
    wayne
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  9. #9
    Daniel_Jafari
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Tnx guys for your ideas.
    Im running CS5 on a Vista based computer and im gettring realy frustrated. I have re-installed both printer driver and photoshop. Thats really pitty that the problem is pretty known but not work arounds..... I heard that Vista has a faulty color management. should I upgrade to windows 7?
    regards
    /Daniel

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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Hi Roger,

    When I started into 'colour management' with windows XP, a mess was caused by Adobe Gamma. (I can't remember what it looked like, however) I had to remove this (and ensure it stayed removed) before I could get the pc to do what I wanted it to do. Maybe that has reinstalled itself on your system. You will find plenty of references on the web wrt removing it. You should have mentioned your OS, I know nothing about Macs (and little else ;-)

    Best wishes,

    Ray

  11. #11
    Daniel_Jafari
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Thank you Ray, As I wrote I use Windows Vista. And to be honest I dont know what you mean by removing Adobe Gamnma. I know Gamma warnings you may see when you prove your color space in photoshop but how can I remove Adobe Gamma?

    Tnx again
    Regards
    Daniel

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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Hi Daniel,

    At the beginning of my previous post I stated 'Hi Roger' (who was the op on this thread), and I'm not sure if he has found the answer to his problem. My previous post was not addressed to you but this one is. A bit like windows, I'm not too clever at multitasking .

    However, I also stated that there were plenty of references to Adobe Gamma on the web, so use your favourite search engine and see what you can find. The first hit I get when searching on 'removing adobe gamma' is - http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/a...obe_gamma.html which may well answer your questions.

    Best wishes,

    Ray

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel_Jafari View Post
    Tnx guys for your ideas.
    Im running CS5 on a Vista based computer and im gettring realy frustrated. I have re-installed both printer driver and photoshop. Thats really pitty that the problem is pretty known but not work arounds..... I heard that Vista has a faulty color management. should I upgrade to windows 7?
    regards
    /Daniel
    Vista forced me to upgrade to a mac.
    -bob

  14. #14
    Daniel_Jafari
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Tnx again Ray, I will google for removing Adobe Gamma. How ever I dont know what the side effects of it will be.As many other things in the world, nothing is free :-).And Bob, you are not alone, I have heard others suggesting me to do that too.

  15. #15
    Daniel_Jafari
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    I checked my start up programs and there is noting like Adobe Gamma running on the system. I guess I will upgrade to windows 7 first, if the problem remains i will consider turning to mac.

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Gretag-Macbeth (now X-Rite) made two little apps that are handy for sorting out display profile issues. I've used these two for years in Windows XP, Vista and Windows 7, 32 and 64-bit. Both apps are compatible with multiple displays.

    CalibrationTester shows the LUT loaded in the graphics card, and allows you to reset it.
    http://www.xrite.com/product_overvie...SoftwareID=546

    DisplayProfile allows you to select a display profile.
    http://www.xrite.com/product_overvie...SoftwareID=539
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel_Jafari View Post
    I checked my start up programs and there is noting like Adobe Gamma running on the system. I guess I will upgrade to windows 7 first, if the problem remains i will consider turning to mac.
    Windows 7 is a worthwile update anyway. The update process is in most cases very straightforward, ony in rare cases is there a software that works on Vista but not Windows 7.

    But the most important thing do do is to get a good grip on the color calibration on your computer. If you have two displays then you can compare the display of an image on both displays to see if they are properly set up. Also try out the apps I linked to in the previous post - they can help you understand what is going on.

    I also think graphics drivers can mess up color calibration, sometimes it helps to install a newer driver. Which brings us back to upgrading to Windows 7 to make sure you can run the latest drivers.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

  18. #18
    Daniel_Jafari
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Hi Lars,
    And thank you for your tips. I sure will check those screen calibration applikations. When it comes to my particullar problem, I use a screen calibrator every other week, so Im pretty sure the screen is as ok as possible. And while printing, Its very near OK if I use ICC-profiles delivered by canon (not 100%). The problem occures when I try to turn off cm in printer and using "my own" ICC-profile.
    regards
    Daniel

    P.S the ICC profile is checed on an other computer and It seems pretty close to 100% quality.

  19. #19
    Daniel_Jafari
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    Re: Stuck on a Frequently Encountered Print problem

    Unfortunately an upgrade to windows 7 didnt help. :-(

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