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Thread: cmyk profile

  1. #1
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    cmyk profile

    Any suggestions for the following. I have now done several aluminiumprints with a large printingfirm and I have a slight problem. They want the document in cmyk Fogra39. This works fine with colourprints and the colours are reasonably close to my original, no complaints. However, when I try to do a black&white image it always comes back with a green tint. Not drastic, but a photographer sees it in a split second.
    I have tried to convert to their profile from a desaturated rgb file and also from a greyscale file. In both cases the converted file looks identical on my screen, no tint whatsoever.
    In both cases it comes back with a slight green tint. A little frustrating.

    Unfortunately service is not their strength so I don't get anybody to work with for a solution. However, I cannot ignore them because pricewise they are outstanding nobody is even close.

    Should I put a little magenta in my file to compensate? Feels so wrong to do that, but don't really know what to do.
    Alpa FPS MAX TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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    Re: cmyk profile

    Hello Dan,
    I was surprised to see a printer who is producing aluminum prints asking for a forgra cmyk file. In my experience aluminum prints are produced using a dye sublimation process using a printer such as an epson 9900.
    When I started doing artwork reproduction we were using an Iris press using a cmyk workflow ( no light black or light light black inks as we have today) and producing quality B&W prints was VERY difficult. They were either greenish or magenta. In my experience if we tried adding magenta to get rid of the green cast we ended up with a B&W print that was magenta in the mid tones and green in the shadows.
    Very neutral B&W only became a reality when we started using ultra chrome inks with light black and light light black inks and a good rip like ergo soft or imageprint.
    I don't think printing using only four color cmyk inks will give good quality neutral B&W,even with very good printer profiling. I don't think this is a problem you can solve on your end.
    I think you need to find a printer who is using a printer like an epson 9900 or 11880 who is using additional light black and light light black inks. They will be able to produce very neutral B&W prints.
    I know this isn't what you were hoping to hear but hope it helps and saves you some time trying to fix the problem on your side.
    Mike
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  3. #3
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: cmyk profile

    Thanks Mike. Good to read that to try and compensate in my file is just bound to make it worse, definitely without control.

    I would have thought they were using large industrial flatbed printers and therefore wanting cmyk files. It is clear in their instructions that they use Fogra 39 and if files do not have this profile embedded, they will assign it.

    I'm trying to get through to someone in the production department.....(not easy)
    Alpa FPS MAX TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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    Re: cmyk profile

    Well if I were in their production dept and knew someone was calling about getting neutral B&W from a cmyk printer with no,additional black inks I would'nt answer the phone either.
    Regards
    Mike

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    Re: cmyk profile

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Z View Post
    Well if I were in their production dept and knew someone was calling about getting neutral B&W from a cmyk printer with no,additional black inks I would'nt answer the phone either.
    Regards
    Mike
    If you know for a fact that the black ink prints fairly neutral, you can try rebuilding that FOGRA profile in i1Profiler or ProfileMaker using a heavy or max black ink, which will put most of the image into the black channel and go a long way toward a more neutral black and white. But ultimately, the reason for the color cast is either that the FOGRA profile is not correct for how the printer is set up, or they are having a calibration or process control issue. Either way, it doesn't sound like they know what they're doing.
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    Re: cmyk profile

    Quote Originally Posted by pfigen View Post
    If you know for a fact that the black ink prints fairly neutral, you can try rebuilding that FOGRA profile in i1Profiler or ProfileMaker using a heavy or max black ink, which will put most of the image into the black channel and go a long way toward a more neutral black and white. But ultimately, the reason for the color cast is either that the FOGRA profile is not correct for how the printer is set up, or they are having a calibration or process control issue. Either way, it doesn't sound like they know what they're doing.
    I'm going to add that if this printing company is insisting on CMYK files, they are likely using a true CMYK RIP, but there's no way that the inks used to print your aluminum prints are anywhere close to actual FOGRA inks. There will be an internal profile of the media and that FOGRA CMYK file you are sending is getting converted to that internal profile. Depending on which RIP they are using, you *should* be able to send ANY file, RGB or CMYK and get similar results, depending on the gamut of the original and that of the substrate. After thinking about this it most certainly boils down to the quality of that media profile in the RIP, in addition to the black generation information in my previous post.

    If it were me, I'd send them a profiling target and make my own with heavy black generation, which would also take into account their apparently crappy internal profile and correct for that as well. You'd probably get much better color prints as well.

  7. #7
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: cmyk profile

    Thank you for your input!

    It seems it is not only the tint issue that is their problem. Last week I recieved 7 pieces. 3 were damaged, one with scratches and two with dents. Now, this was 'not' the first time so I knew exactly how to report this. They accepted my claim and would reprint those. They came today. Omg....all three had problems as well and not possible to sell. 3 out of 3.

    I have another order in process with three clients waiting. And my feeling right now is that none will be acceptable upon arrival, horrible feeling.

    So, the only sane decision I can do is to sort the incoming order and straight after that move on and find another printer!
    Alpa FPS MAX TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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