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Giving X-E3 a spin
- Thread starter raist3d
- Start date
Tim
Active member
Thanks for this, I was going to ask. It puts the X-E3 in front for me.
I had considered going back to m43 as I am very size sensitive on ICL lenses.
As I tend to stay under 100mm (film terms) the Fuji will still cut it.
So for me its sensor size vs IBS mostly.
I think with the distortion correcting in s/w that many m43 lenses are designed around I feel it gives another point to Fuji.
Hi 4711 - I am currently on vacation somewhere else, but I will get back to you tonight or tomorrow. I have been using my X-E3 almost exclusively now except for one time Pen-F and two times GM5. Some thoughts will follow.
In general - it's a very fast, well thought out camera. Fuji small primes - and I am talking about the new XFxx F2.0 "fuji chromes" are not as small as I would have wished vs the m43rds counter part- even if they are "pretty close" but not too bad. And the XF50 F2.0 makes it look quite "small pro" somehow even if not pocketable, just like I thought the OMD EM5 MKII looked amazing with the adapter old 4/3rds Panasonic Leica F1.4 25mm lens (even big, it looked & felt very right).
So by default I am using the XF27mm F2.0 lens as that makes it a "Ricoh GR" almost pocketable but with 40mm equivalent. The ricoh GR is absolutely fantastic, but I prefer 40mm over 28mm focal equiv.
I will give an update back with some extra thoughts on the side with PenF.
- Ricardo
So to add to my reply. Yes, I am using it much more than m4/3rds at the moment.
Which lenses:
XF27mm F2.8 - this lens makes the camera super compact and is actually pretty decent.
XF23mm F2.0 - reasonably small, high quality optic, great for when you need wider. Still learning to "see" intuitively with it.
XF25mm F2.0 - my usual loved focal length, this lens is surprisingly sharp or can be. But even though it's small, not as "wearable small" as the XF27mm
XF50mm F2.0 - decent portrait lens. Pretty sharp. The camera for some reason "feels right" and "looks great" with this lens. Not using it as much as the XF27mm F2.8 but probably the second most used.
I love the XF25 but the XF27 is getting its place often since they aren't super different focals.
PenF comment - I love love the PenF output (though I certainly love the X-E3's too). But the camera just gets in my way with the response, speed, reliability of focus, UI - while the Fuji more often get out of my way.
- Ricardo
Which lenses:
XF27mm F2.8 - this lens makes the camera super compact and is actually pretty decent.
XF23mm F2.0 - reasonably small, high quality optic, great for when you need wider. Still learning to "see" intuitively with it.
XF25mm F2.0 - my usual loved focal length, this lens is surprisingly sharp or can be. But even though it's small, not as "wearable small" as the XF27mm
XF50mm F2.0 - decent portrait lens. Pretty sharp. The camera for some reason "feels right" and "looks great" with this lens. Not using it as much as the XF27mm F2.8 but probably the second most used.
I love the XF25 but the XF27 is getting its place often since they aren't super different focals.
PenF comment - I love love the PenF output (though I certainly love the X-E3's too). But the camera just gets in my way with the response, speed, reliability of focus, UI - while the Fuji more often get out of my way.
- Ricardo
Hi Ricardo,
as far as I understood it, you wanted to give the XE3 a spin because:
a) the size of body and lenses are almost the same so the Fuji slightly bigger lenses do not disturb you and
b) you hoped that the IQ of the XE3 files will be better (not only by a hairline)
Do you feel that both points turned out true for you personally?
The reason why I am asking is that oftne you can have better IQ by swithicing to a bigger format, but that always comes at a price. The question is always is it worth it for you personally looking at the downsides of i.e. size and weight.
The PEN F has the new 20MP sensor already and for me your comment does not really sounds like that you feel that the IQ of the XE3 is significant better than the IQ of the PEN F. But with the size it sounds like it is/ it feels bigger than what you hoped for.
Ok, this is specific and easier to answer-
Over the GM5 / GX850 - I would not have gone Fuji if Panasonic had come out with a GM7 with the same sensor of the PenF/GX8 and a few other improvements expected that usually go in line with such upgrade. Right now, think as much as they could pack from the G9 in that size even if the price is something like $1,200 USD.
Why? Size size size and the lens size at telephoto of m43rds, while giving the GMx/GX850 line a boost in DR/resolution/color. (If not DR, at least color, resolution).
But Panasonic seems very not interested in this.
Pen-F
At the point I go to a size like PenF then it invites comparison with other similar sizes (X-E3). However, had the PenF been faster in UI response, less complex UI (at least a set of changes I outlined earlier) and the AF more predictable, I would not have gone Fuji X-E3. The PenF while the body is comparable in size, still has overall smaller lens options once you start hitting telephoto, and even the regular focals are a tad smaller.
Reason is Olympus did a kick *** job with the JPEG engine & RAW file tuning of the sensor. The image quality/metering for DR while still not at the level of the X-E3 is actually pretty darn good for m43rds and in a wide range of situations I have seen. Olympus also somehow figured some way it seems to me, to do a nice gradient the best they could from non-burned highlights into burned so that it gives a nice tone/impression of decent DR.
So in reality, that the X-E3 has better image quality in this scenario is a collateral bonus (and yes, it does have better IQ once you hit the higher ISO's and better DR and at the extremes, more than by a hairline). And the reason I picked X-E3 over Pen-F was because the size as you mentioned (though once you hit telephoto, lenses grow notably bigger).
So to summarize- over the GM5/GX850 you could say I picked it for image quality, but I had picked the PenF over GM5/GX850 for that reason. That doesn't mean the GM5/GX850 are useless because they are still pretty good. You do have to meter more carefully in some situations, but the PenF just hits that extra bit that works for a lot of situations better and in also high iso / low light.
Panasonic has frustrated me tremendously by killing the GM7 and showing no apparent interest to continue the GX850- though I would imagine that will continue at some point. But I wouldn't be surprise they keep the old 16 MP sensor yet again.
Panasonic got a more modern, fast UI/usability right. Olympus hasn't. Fuji did.
Over the Pen-F I went Fuji for the usability mainly, better I.Q. being a nice bonus.
- Ricardo
I can tell you - I could probably pick the Pen_F right now, with a very happy disposition. And enjoy some files/results with it. But it will be a day or two until I end up hating using it again 
This has gone on now for like a year. It's a complete love/hate swing ending up in hate. And I decided it was time to put a stop to it
If I photographed more during the day, where the AF would be more reliable, and using the EVF (which I don't do as often) so the AF markers are far easier to see, I may have been happy enough. But I shoot a lot at night/low light. The UI is still ugh at times.
- Ricardo
This has gone on now for like a year. It's a complete love/hate swing ending up in hate. And I decided it was time to put a stop to it
If I photographed more during the day, where the AF would be more reliable, and using the EVF (which I don't do as often) so the AF markers are far easier to see, I may have been happy enough. But I shoot a lot at night/low light. The UI is still ugh at times.
- Ricardo
Everything depends on the individual taste and preferences. I hear your points. I just hesitate for myself to add the XE3 to my arsenal, because I fear that it will be not really a significant enough added value for me compared to my GX85/GX80 (I sold already my GM5).
In many areas the XE3 would be even a step back compared to my GX80/85 (UI, faster AF speed & better reliability also in low light, touchscreen UI/setting options in menu, tilting screen, IBIS, lens size & weight even with FFL etc.).
I do not know wheter the step up in IQ of the XE3 is big enough to justify this.
In many areas the XE3 would be even a step back compared to my GX80/85 (UI, faster AF speed & better reliability also in low light, touchscreen UI/setting options in menu, tilting screen, IBIS, lens size & weight even with FFL etc.).
I do not know wheter the step up in IQ of the XE3 is big enough to justify this.
ptomsu
Workshop Member
That step up in IQ is definitely NOT big enough - at least not for my feeling!
I would argue in general except using some of the old F1.4 primes, the X-E3 focuses faster and more accurately than the GX80/GX85 in many situations. IBIS only really matters if you need it (i.e. you are not shooting moving objects). Some of the zoom lenses of Fuji have OIS anyway.
That said - tilting screen, overall size of the system (as you go into tele 90mm equiv & up) is def. on the GX80/85 favor. What the Fuji will do better IQ wise is better highlight recovery. If Panasonic ever does a GX8 sensor in GX80 that could be interesting too, but I keep hearing they are interested for now in doing GH5 variants - because the GH5 has been a major success for them.
Anyhow, I really liked the GX85 when I tried it, so if you like that def. keep using it. It's def. a great camera.
- Ricardo
PS: One thing I must point - if I may. When comparing image quality of the X-E3 vs the GX85 (or Pen-F) you can't just simply compare pixel peeping both. But not only the Fuji will be better at 100%, but the key thing is that you can resize down the 24 mp of the Fuji into 16 MP for a more than fair valid comparison vs the Panasonic (you can make the same case of GX8/PenF to GX80/GX85). With this resampling the Fuji lead will increase.
But again, if the image quality of the GX85 matches the domains you photograph on, this is irrelevant and you get the plus of a faster RAW develop (if you shoot raw) not only because you don't have to deal with 24 MP but also because you don't have to deal with X-trans which is more computer intensive.
You know, human beeings do seldom settle with their desires
I agrree that the IQ of the current 24MP Fuji sensors ( of course also Bayer 24MP) is better than current 16MP MFT sensors. But same goes for the difference APS-C vs Fullframe vs Medium Format.
This is why I am even thinking about adding again a Nikon D8xx to my arsenal instead of another Fuji body. This would give an even bigger step up in IQ. There is of course an even bigger size difference. But it seems that even Fuji will only offer all features, if you pick bigger bodies.
Fuji has one USP, I am really fond of. Hybrid viewfinder. I really love that on my XPro1. But it seems that product line will never have a tilting screen. Same for the X100 line. And if there will be only an even bigger X1H to allow IBIS, there is no reason not to favour FF anymore...
At the moment I do not understan the strategy of Fuji. Maybe they do not have one anymore. Maybe they want to make everybody happy and loose their focus with this. I do not know.
But if they would have made a better X100F, or cheaper XPro2 with tilting screen or an XE3 with tilting screen we would not have that discussion...
Well, sure, but depending on the focal lengths, you can make the case that the X-E3 compets with m43rds size wise - and on the other hand, the more competitive m43rds cameras have gone bigger (GX8, GH5, EM1 MKII).You know, human beeings do seldom settle with their desires
I agrree that the IQ of the current 24MP Fuji sensors ( of course also Bayer 24MP) is better than current 16MP MFT sensors. But same goes for the difference APS-C vs Fullframe vs Medium Format.
Well sure, again- but once again, depends on what the range of features it. BTW, not disagreeing with you about needs and wants, all individual.
I woudl wait for the so called X1H to come out first. But even if that were true, an X1H doesn't make the entire line.
They are basically providing a variant of their formula to many tastes. The X_E3 being a cheaper model, is not designed to have an OVF hybrid (same with the series of cameras preceding it). Given they have selling their X-line better and better, I do think they do have a strategy in mind and is serving them well.
I think it's safe to say a "better X100F" will come. They have been pretty consistent about that line. Though for many it seems the X100F is more than good enough.
Cheaper XPro2 with tilting screen strikes me as a something for nothing proposition (just talking about the price for a moment). Hybrid EVF cost money, and its the only one in the market in such model. Then look at the pricing of the EM1 mKII and GH5. Why?
Tilting screen on the X-Ex line in general, sure. Def. an issue if you want one in that body type. Certainly nothing is perfect and we have to pick what best matches. I would have kept using that PenF if it wasn't for what I outlined. If Olympus decides to continue the experiment (as they said the PenF was a trial sort of thing), hopefully the far newer faster process, a small addition of some PDAF (even a few points at the center) plus ability to mark the AF points I think would improve it usability quite a bit.
- Ricardo
Exactly. This makes the decisions so difficult.
I am surprised that you experienced the AF of the XE3 better than the one in the Lumix GX80/85. That is new to me.
If you would not do low light photography 90% of your shootings, would you have still picked the XE3 over the pen F now that you tested both in and out?
It's better at tracking. Single AF depends on the lens. I guess some are faster, some are not. Looks like the bottleneck is not the X_E3 but the lenses. There's also the comparison in Fuji with single AF mode point vs the zone. I find for quicker acquisition of a reasonably big target the multipoint zone with PDAF is much faster than its regular single AF point.
I think if I did that *and I shot using the view finder* I probably would have kept the PenF. But the PenF has other usability/speed response issues. And I don't use the EVF that often to shoot. I also prefer a tilt LCD vs fully articulated (the Fuji X_E3 has neither).
- Ricardo
Me too...
Maybe we both have to pray for a Pen F Mk II with UI on the level and AF of a GX80, tilting screen and image quality of a XE3...
I find the Pen F a lot more sexy than my GX80...
Or a XE4 with tilting screen, IBIS and a few more small XF lenses like a new XF18, a XF56/2.0 or 60/2.8 or 50-150/4.0
I honestly don't seen an X-E3 sized body with IBIS. The PenF has good enough RAWS and JPEGS, but the camera could use a boost in usability and speed.
- Ricardo
Talking about system differences: What I do miss the most with MFT is shallower DOF with the Lumix 42.5/1.7 for environmental portraits. I use this FL very often. Not just for head & shoulder portraits. My Fuji XF56//1.2 is able to produce the same DOF as my Nikkor 85/1.8G on fullrame. Very nice background blurr!
Until now I have not seen yet the proove in image examples, that any lens (85mm equivilant) on MFT is able to achieve that.