500 EL/M stuck lens - very loose + battery question - newb

discoani · Jan 23, 2018

Hello all, this is my first post here so be gentle! I recently inherited some old film cameras and i'm trying to decide if i want to keep them for myself or sell them. I got them from a family friend who recently passed away and i was given them because i'm a pro digital photographer and always wanted to experiment with film. I am 35, never used film cameras really but i have a lot of experience with digital SLR's. Received Hasselblad 500 EL/M, 503cx, 50mm & 80mm planar lens. 3 backs. Leica if.

Sorry i am such a newb, but i'm just trying to wrap my head around how these hasselblad's work.

PROBLEM: 500 EL/M has a 80mm planar lens stuck on and is very loose. For the first few days i couldn't get the 50mm or 80mm lens on the 500 EL/M but i could on the 503cx. I noticed that the screw on the 500 ELM was in a different position than the 503cx. I couldn't get the lens on for a few days. Somehow this morning i got the lens on and right now its very loose and will not be removed. I have read some things online where i need to remove the camera back and i see a screw that is not too far from the back lens element and i can see this being problematic if i try to screw this while the lens is attached, because of slipping and damage the lens. I read that i can use blue sticky tac and put it against the lens to protect it while i do the screwing but i want to make sure that is my main problem before i go about this.

Also is there a way to tell if my power supply and or batteries work? It came with 2 blue old looking batteries and a charger, i'm guessing these have to be operating in order for the camera to work, correct? How can i test these batteries or know if they are good? can i use any other batteries without an adapter?

JeRuFo · Jan 23, 2018

discoani said:
Hello all, this is my first post here so be gentle! I recently inherited some old film cameras and i'm trying to decide if i want to keep them for myself or sell them. I got them from a family friend who recently passed away and i was given them because i'm a pro digital photographer and always wanted to experiment with film. I am 35, never used film cameras really but i have a lot of experience with digital SLR's. Received Hasselblad 500 EL/M, 503cx, 50mm & 80mm planar lens. 3 backs. Leica if.

Sorry i am such a newb, but i'm just trying to wrap my head around how these hasselblad's work.

PROBLEM: 500 EL/M has a 80mm planar lens stuck on and is very loose. For the first few days i couldn't get the 50mm or 80mm lens on the 500 EL/M but i could on the 503cx. I noticed that the screw on the 500 ELM was in a different position than the 503cx. I couldn't get the lens on for a few days. Somehow this morning i got the lens on and right now its very loose and will not be removed. I have read some things online where i need to remove the camera back and i see a screw that is not too far from the back lens element and i can see this being problematic if i try to screw this while the lens is attached, because of slipping and damage the lens. I read that i can use blue sticky tac and put it against the lens to protect it while i do the screwing but i want to make sure that is my main problem before i go about this.

Also is there a way to tell if my power supply and or batteries work? It came with 2 blue old looking batteries and a charger, i'm guessing these have to be operating in order for the camera to work, correct? How can i test these batteries or know if they are good? can i use any other batteries without an adapter?

I've only used an EL/M once, but know that on a 500 body, you can only remove or attach a lens when the mirror is down/shutter is recocked. I would try to charge the batteries and inserting them. The camera will probably recock the auxiliary shutter and then you might be able to detach the lens. It doesn't sound like it is properly attached now, was the shutter down when you attached the lens? Like most film cameras, they are quite simple beasts, but you have to respect the way they work and not force things. You can find the manuals online very easily.
I would stick to the 503cx, it has a much brighter screen and is much more portable. You'll have a blast. If you invest in a developing tank, shooting some black and white becomes quite easy and cheap.

discoani · Jan 23, 2018

JeRuFo said:
I've only used an EL/M once, but know that on a 500 body, you can only remove or attach a lens when the mirror is down/shutter is recocked.

I believe the mirror was "up" or not activated. When i looked through the opening where the film back goes through towards the lens it was completely open. I could not look through the viewfinder either. It was like the body was empty, i thought the mirror was missing.

JeRuFo said:
I would try to charge the batteries and inserting them. The camera will probably recock the auxiliary shutter and then you might be able to detach the lens. It doesn't sound like it is properly attached now, was the shutter down when you attached the lens?

The lens is loose, its not attached properly but it's stuck on the body. Loose left and right just a little. As for the shutter, are you talking about the shutter that is against the film back? I believe i had to push it open, i dont remember if the camera did so itself. Right now the shutter is open i believe, i can stare through the camera body when i remove the film back and see the back lens element.

JeRuFo said:
Like most film cameras, they are quite simple beasts, but you have to respect the way they work and not force things. You can find the manuals online very easily.
I would stick to the 503cx, it has a much brighter screen and is much more portable. You'll have a blast. If you invest in a developing tank, shooting some black and white becomes quite easy and cheap.

Thanks, i figured it was easy but i know i'm doing something wrong. I just dont know if my batteries are good or not. Is there anyway that i can tell if the batteries are working? Will i need to get the unjammer tool in order to get the lens off or once i get the battery working do you think i can meet the lens to body?

Thanks for your reply! I just looked up a tank.. they only cost about $30?!?!! and i'm guessing i need some liquids or something, how much would you estimate it would cost to get something like that up? I would love to do something like this, i skipped photography in high school now i'm wishing i had taken it (i graduated in 2000 so they were not using digital, all film in the class).

sog1927 · Jan 23, 2018

discoani said:
Hello all, this is my first post here so be gentle! I recently inherited some old film cameras and i'm trying to decide if i want to keep them for myself or sell them. I got them from a family friend who recently passed away and i was given them because i'm a pro digital photographer and always wanted to experiment with film. I am 35, never used film cameras really but i have a lot of experience with digital SLR's. Received Hasselblad 500 EL/M, 503cx, 50mm & 80mm planar lens. 3 backs. Leica if.

Sorry i am such a newb, but i'm just trying to wrap my head around how these hasselblad's work.

PROBLEM: 500 EL/M has a 80mm planar lens stuck on and is very loose. For the first few days i couldn't get the 50mm or 80mm lens on the 500 EL/M but i could on the 503cx. I noticed that the screw on the 500 ELM was in a different position than the 503cx. I couldn't get the lens on for a few days. Somehow this morning i got the lens on and right now its very loose and will not be removed. I have read some things online where i need to remove the camera back and i see a screw that is not too far from the back lens element and i can see this being problematic if i try to screw this while the lens is attached, because of slipping and damage the lens. I read that i can use blue sticky tac and put it against the lens to protect it while i do the screwing but i want to make sure that is my main problem before i go about this.

Also is there a way to tell if my power supply and or batteries work? It came with 2 blue old looking batteries and a charger, i'm guessing these have to be operating in order for the camera to work, correct? How can i test these batteries or know if they are good? can i use any other batteries without an adapter?

The body is jammed. This sounds terrible, but it really isn't. It's a minor annoyance that happens to every Hasselblad owner once ;-).

Here's what has happened: to attach or remove a lens from the body, both the body and the lens have to be in the "cocked" position. From what you've described, your camera body is uncocked, but your lens is cocked (since you can attach it to the 503 body). I suspect this happened because the camera was fired when the batteries did not have enough charge to wind the body fully. I think if you put some fully-charged batteries in (without a lens on the camera), the wind cycle may complete and you'll be home free. I believe the charge time is about 7 hours (don't know for sure - never owned an EL). You do have be careful with the charge/discharge cycle on these old NiCd batteries: they have "memory".

If that doesn't work, we'll have to try cocking the body by hand.

Try charging the batteries and putting them in the camera. The camera only requires one battery to operate. See if you can get it to complete the wind cycle.

There are adapters available to use something other than the Varta Ni-Cad batteries the camera came with. You can find them on various auction sites.

When I jammed my 500 C/M body (in the first week of ownership), it was worse: I inadvertently fired the camera while I was removing a lens and it was locked on tight. I had to go to Hasselblad service in Tokyo to get it unjammed (which they did for free).

discoani · Jan 23, 2018

sog1927 said:
The body is jammed. This sounds terrible, but it really isn't. It's a minor annoyance that happens to every Hasselblad owner once ;-).

Here's what has happened: to attach or remove a lens from the body, both the body and the lens have to be in the "cocked" position. From what you've described, your camera body is uncocked, but your lens is cocked (since you can attach it to the 503 body). I suspect this happened because the camera was fired when the batteries did not have enough charge to wind the body fully. I think if you put some fully-charged batteries in (without a lens on the camera), the wind cycle may complete and you'll be home free. I believe the charge time is about 7 hours (don't know for sure - never owned an EL). You do have be careful with the charge/discharge cycle on these old NiCd batteries: they have "memory".

If that doesn't work, we'll have to try cocking the body by hand.

Try charging the batteries and putting them in the camera. The camera only requires one battery to operate. See if you can get it to complete the wind cycle.

There are adapters available to use something other than the Varta Ni-Cad batteries the camera came with. You can find them on various auction sites.

When I jammed my 500 C/M body (in the first week of ownership), it was worse: I inadvertently fired the camera while I was removing a lens and it was locked on tight. I had to go to Hasselblad service in Tokyo to get it unjammed (which they did for free).

I am trying to determine if my batteries are good. it came with 2 blue odd shaped batteries, i tried having both of them in the body and using the included power cable and kept them plugged in for about 24 hours or more, but nothing seems to happen with either of them.

Currently it is in the O position in the LOT setting, i can barely move it up to the L position about half way, and i cant move it down to the T position. Also, the settings for where the winding dial normally is is in the normal O position, not on AS, A, S or RS.

You are suggesting i need to get a fully charged battery in and try to have the body wind it, with the lens off. First off, i can't get the lens off in order to do that. Second, im trying to figure out how to tell if my battery is good. With my current settings, both in the O position, should i just be able to hit the shutter button and it will "fix" itself when i have a good battery in?

My friend suggested we hook the battery up to a voltage meter to see if it had power. One battery read around .90ish while the other did not read anything. Any thoughts on this?

EDIT: By the way, i have the film back on, slide out while trying to take a picture. I am going to try to charge it again overnight, i might look into purchasing the adapter for 9volt batteries unless you have any other suggestion.

JeRuFo · Jan 23, 2018

Here you can download the manual, it has all the answers about batteries etc.

http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/pdf/hasmanuals/500elm.pdf

sog1927 · Jan 23, 2018

discoani said:
I am trying to determine if my batteries are good. it came with 2 blue odd shaped batteries, i tried having both of them in the body and using the included power cable and kept them plugged in for about 24 hours or more, but nothing seems to happen with either of them.

Currently it is in the O position in the LOT setting, i can barely move it up to the L position about half way, and i cant move it down to the T position. Also, the settings for where the winding dial normally is is in the normal O position, not on AS, A, S or RS.

You are suggesting i need to get a fully charged battery in and try to have the body wind it, with the lens off. First off, i can't get the lens off in order to do that. Second, im trying to figure out how to tell if my battery is good. With my current settings, both in the O position, should i just be able to hit the shutter button and it will "fix" itself when i have a good battery in?

My friend suggested we hook the battery up to a voltage meter to see if it had power. One battery read around .90ish while the other did not read anything. Any thoughts on this?

EDIT: By the way, i have the film back on, slide out while trying to take a picture. I am going to try to charge it again overnight, i might look into purchasing the adapter for 9volt batteries unless you have any other suggestion.

It sounds like I misunderstood your original post. Let me make sure I have the situation right:

1) There is a lens on the body
2) You cannot fully attach the lens.
3) You can't remove it, either.

So the lens is sort of half-on/half-off and you can't either remove it or fully attach it.

Is that right?

discoani · Jan 23, 2018

sog1927 said:
It sounds like I misunderstood your original post. Let me make sure I have the situation right:

1) There is a lens on the body
2) You cannot fully attach the lens.
3) You can't remove it, either.

So the lens is sort of half-on/half-off and you can't either remove it or fully attach it.

Is that right?

Correct. The lens is loose on the body without being able to secure it on or even remove it.

For a few days when i first got the camera i could not attach the lens at all to the camera. Something happened and a few days ago i was able to get the lens onto the body but it did not lock. It's stuck on and it is loose. I do know, based on how the lens meets with the 503cx, that the 500EL/M body screw was in a different position. I thought i had turned the screw in the body while the lens was not on and i could now meet the lens and body, but i got into my current position where the lens could not be joined but it can not also be removed. It goes left and right maybe 1/10th of an inch where it's trying to meet with the body but i believe the body screw is in the wrong position.

discoani · Jan 23, 2018

Pictures are worth a thousand words huh?

Last image you can see the lens is a bit cockeyed.

1st and 2nd image show the body screw position.

sog1927 · Jan 23, 2018

discoani said:
Pictures are worth a thousand words huh?

View attachment 131836
View attachment 131837
View attachment 131838

From the pictures, it looks to me like neither the lens nor the body is cocked. This is basically the situation I got myself in back in Tokyo. It is complicated by the fact that body is motorized. I think I'd seek professional assistance. I used to get my Hasselblad stuff serviced by Focal Point, but he doesn't work on bodies anymore (just lenses). People at the Hasselblad Digital Forum seem to like this guy: http://www.david-odess.com/index.html. I have no experience with him.

I think your batteries are shot (they should read 6 volts). The original Varta NiCd batteries aren't made anymore - your alternatives are to substitute a compatible NiMH battery (like this one: http://www.energexbatteries.com/products/Hasselblad-500-ELX-{47}-EL-(NiMH)-1000mah.html) or get one of the many converters which allow you to use more common battery types.

Just some general advice: never force anything on a Hasselblad. If things don't just snap into place, there's something wrong.

Also, you will probably need to get the light seals replaced on the film magazines. Might as well save yourself some fogged film and just do it now.

discoani · Jan 23, 2018

sog1927 said:
From the pictures, it looks to me like neither the lens nor the body is cocked. This is basically the situation I got myself in back in Tokyo. It is complicated by the fact that body is motorized. I think I'd seek professional assistance. I used to get my Hasselblad stuff serviced by Focal Point, but he doesn't work on bodies anymore (just lenses). People at the Hasselblad Digital Forum seem to like this guy: http://www.david-odess.com/index.html. I have no experience with him.

I think your batteries are shot (they should read 6 volts). The original Varta NiCd batteries aren't made anymore - your alternatives are to substitute a compatible NiMH battery (like this one: http://www.energexbatteries.com/products/Hasselblad-500-ELX-{47}-EL-(NiMH)-1000mah.html) or get one of the many converters which allow you to use more common battery types.

Just some general advice: never force anything on a Hasselblad. If things don't just snap into place, there's something wrong.

Also, you will probably need to get the light seals replaced on the film magazines. Might as well save yourself some fogged film and just do it now.

Hmmm this is not what i wanted to hear, LOL. Sounds like this 500 ELM is becoming a major problem compared to the 503cx. I dont think i can afford to have it sent away right now. Maybe if i get the battery adapter and the hasselblad tool i can get it solved myself? Anyone else have any thoughts?

sog1927 · Jan 24, 2018

discoani said:
Hmmm this is not what i wanted to hear, LOL. Sounds like this 500 ELM is becoming a major problem compared to the 503cx. I dont think i can afford to have it sent away right now. Maybe if i get the battery adapter and the hasselblad tool i can get it solved myself? Anyone else have any thoughts?

Well, David Odess's Hasselblad repair FAQ specifically warns against attempting to manually "unjam" a motorized body. He doesn't supply any details, but I suspect that it would be (at the very least) extremely difficult, since I think you'll be turning the motor as you attempt to turn the cocking shaft. Even if you were physically capable of doing this, I think there's a very great risk of whatever tool you're using slipping off and scratching the rear element of the lens. I think this might be true even if you used some sort of fancy "unjamming" tool instead of a screwdriver or a coin. It would be a shame to trash your lens.

I also think that because of the state of the camera and lens, it might not be possible to manually unjam without some disassembly. This was certainly true the one (and only) time I jammed my C/M in this state - and I didn't have a motor to contend with. The cocking shaft just wouldn't turn - it was jammed up tight against the lens. Again, you should *never* have to force anything on a Hasselblad.

Don't let this discourage you - Hasselblad V-series cameras are incredibly rugged and reliable. I've been using them for over 30 years (everywhere from Alaska in January to the Yucatan in summer) and I've never had a mechanical failure (aside from that user error in the first week). Do get the light seals replaced on the magazines, though.

discoani · Jan 24, 2018

sog1927 said:
Well, David Odess's Hasselblad repair FAQ specifically warns against attempting to manually "unjam" a motorized body. He doesn't supply any details, but I suspect that it would be (at the very least) extremely difficult, since I think you'll be turning the motor as you attempt to turn the cocking shaft. Even if you were physically capable of doing this, I think there's a very great risk of whatever tool you're using slipping off and scratching the rear element of the lens. I think this might be true even if you used some sort of fancy "unjamming" tool instead of a screwdriver or a coin. It would be a shame to trash your lens.

I also think that because of the state of the camera and lens, it might not be possible to manually unjam without some disassembly. This was certainly true the one (and only) time I jammed my C/M in this state - and I didn't have a motor to contend with. The cocking shaft just wouldn't turn - it was jammed up tight against the lens. Again, you should *never* have to force anything on a Hasselblad.

Don't let this discourage you - Hasselblad V-series cameras are incredibly rugged and reliable. I've been using them for over 30 years (everywhere from Alaska in January to the Yucatan in summer) and I've never had a mechanical failure (aside from that user error in the first week). Do get the light seals replaced on the magazines, though.

Thanks a bunch for all of your replies, i really appreciate it. I guess i will put this on hold and think about what to do. I'm pretty bummed about this, but i learned my lesson. I honestly didn't even think about the EL/M being battery operated and having to think about this issue, but you live and learn. I will contact the guy you suggested and see what he thinks/how much it would cost to send it to him to have it removed/fixed. This is such a shame because it looks like i might not even use this body, might prefer the 503cx and it doesn't seem like the EL/M is worth much if i were to try to sell it. Atleast if i have it fixed i can retrieve the lens. If i do send it in to the guy, is there any other service i can do cheaply to maybe raise the value if i were to sell it?

You suggested i get the light seals replaced on the film backs, do you have any idea how much this would cost? I have 3 total backs. BTW you mentioned earlier about developing my own film, sounds very interesting.

mostlylost · Jan 24, 2018

sog1927 said:
Well, David Odess's Hasselblad repair FAQ specifically warns against attempting to manually "unjam" a motorized body. He doesn't supply any details,

I asked, and he was good enough to reply
"When you attempt to unjam a non-motorized camera body by turning the slotted shaft in the front key mechanism (it looks like a screw), it will stop turning when it reaches the stop. When turning the slotted shaft in a motorized camera body, there is no stop, and it is possible to over-wind the shaft. In this case, the camera must be serviced to realign the gears. One danger of turning the slotted shaft in all camera bodies is that if there is a lens mounted to the body, if you slip off the shaft with the screwdriver, the screwdriver can damage the rear lens element."

mostlylost · Jan 24, 2018

discoani said:
Hello all, this is my first post here so be gentle! I recently inherited some old film cameras and i'm trying to decide if i want to keep them for myself or sell them. I got them from a family friend who recently passed away and i was given them because i'm a pro digital photographer and always wanted to experiment with film. I am 35, never used film cameras really but i have a lot of experience with digital SLR's. Received Hasselblad 500 EL/M, 503cx, 50mm & 80mm planar lens. 3 backs. Leica if.

Sorry i am such a newb, but i'm just trying to wrap my head around how these hasselblad's work.

PROBLEM: 500 EL/M has a 80mm planar lens stuck on and is very loose. For the first few days i couldn't get the 50mm or 80mm lens on the 500 EL/M but i could on the 503cx. I noticed that the screw on the 500 ELM was in a different position than the 503cx. I couldn't get the lens on for a few days. Somehow this morning i got the lens on and right now its very loose and will not be removed. I have read some things online where i need to remove the camera back and i see a screw that is not too far from the back lens element and i can see this being problematic if i try to screw this while the lens is attached, because of slipping and damage the lens. I read that i can use blue sticky tac and put it against the lens to protect it while i do the screwing but i want to make sure that is my main problem before i go about this.

Also is there a way to tell if my power supply and or batteries work? It came with 2 blue old looking batteries and a charger, i'm guessing these have to be operating in order for the camera to work, correct? How can i test these batteries or know if they are good? can i use any other batteries without an adapter?

The batteries charge with the "L O T" lever in the "L" position. Select the battery which appears to still have some charge in it and charge it by itself inside the camera (I'm assuming you have the charger that plugs into the right side of the body. If your charger has a separate cradle, just charge it for 14 hours and it'll either come up or it won't. I'm pretty sure that there is a charger and also an A/C adapter, which appear visually similar but are functionally different. I haven't been able to determine this for sure) for 14 hours and then move the lever to the "O" position. That should energize the motor if the battery is capable of taking a charge, assuming the motor and the fuse are good. That will set the screw head looking thingie inside the body into the proper position, but does nothing for the lens not being cocked. Personally, I'm betting it is not and you need to order one of the adapters for modern batteries.

If the lens is not cocked, this is likely not going to do anything to alleviate the removal issue.

discoani · Jan 25, 2018

mostlylost said:
The batteries charge with the "L O T" lever in the "L" position. Select the battery which appears to still have some charge in it and charge it by itself inside the camera (I'm assuming you have the charger that plugs into the right side of the body. If your charger has a separate cradle, just charge it for 14 hours and it'll either come up or it won't. I'm pretty sure that there is a charger and also an A/C adapter, which appear visually similar but are functionally different. I haven't been able to determine this for sure) for 14 hours and then move the lever to the "O" position. That should energize the motor if the battery is capable of taking a charge, assuming the motor and the fuse are good. That will set the screw head looking thingie inside the body into the proper position, but does nothing for the lens not being cocked. Personally, I'm betting it is not and you need to order one of the adapters for modern batteries.

If the lens is not cocked, this is likely not going to do anything to alleviate the removal issue.

I was lucky and another forum suggested that the lens was not connected at all, and to try to force it a bit and it instantly came off! I was too worried before to twist it too much but anyways i'm glad it's finally off.

Now it's time to get the battery adapter and see what this bad boy can do!

sog1927 · Jan 25, 2018

discoani said:
I was lucky and another forum suggested that the lens was not connected at all, and to try to force it a bit and it instantly came off! I was too worried before to twist it too much but anyways i'm glad it's finally off.

Now it's time to get the battery adapter and see what this bad boy can do!

View attachment 131866

That's great news. Charge up the battery and see if you can get the body to cycle. If so, you should be okay!

mostlylost · Jan 25, 2018

discoani said:
I was lucky and another forum suggested that the lens was not connected at all, and to try to force it a bit and it instantly came off! I was too worried before to twist it too much but anyways i'm glad it's finally off.

Now it's time to get the battery adapter and see what this bad boy can do!

View attachment 131866

For reference, this is the correct position of the connector when both lens and body are cocked. This is the position in which lenses/bodies should be stored, installed, or removed. Note the red dots.

If it works you're gonna think this camera is fun

discoani · Jan 25, 2018

mostlylost said:
For reference, this is the correct position of the connector when both lens and body are cocked. This is the position in which lenses/bodies should be stored, installed, or removed. Note the red dots.

If it works you're gonna think this camera is fun

View attachment 131875

WEEE i'm excited. I just purchased the battery adapter and might come early next week. Thanks a lot for showing your image. Looks like my batteries are dead so now i just have to wait...

While i wait, is there much difference between what kind of images come out of the 500 ELM vs the 503cx? I don't think i should keep both, i might consider selling one of them. At first this ELM seemed to be a confusing dangerous monster but its starting to grow on me.

mostlylost · Jan 26, 2018

discoani said:
WEEE i'm excited. I just purchased the battery adapter and might come early next week. Thanks a lot for showing your image. Looks like my batteries are dead so now i just have to wait...

While i wait, is there much difference between what kind of images come out of the 500 ELM vs the 503cx? I don't think i should keep both, i might consider selling one of them. At first this ELM seemed to be a confusing dangerous monster but its starting to grow on me.

No difference.

The ELM is heaver and doesn't hang as well if carried around your neck. But you may think it's worth it for the motor and the sorta kinda instant return mirror

. I have a 500 c/m also and actually prefer carrying it.

Wait till you run some film through them and see if one or the other has some sort of gremlins first.

500 EL/M stuck lens - very loose + battery question - newb

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