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Phase One IQ4150 Issues, Problems and bugs (Please add yours to the list)

Paul2660

Well-known member
What started me thinking for this post was a previous form post where it was mentioned the owners 4150 tends to stay in the safe. After reading that I realized that in the past 6 months, so has mine during many shoots. The shooting experience for me with the 4150 just is not the same as the 3100, which is tragic as the image quality from the 4150 is excellent.

Based on the current posts on this site and others, I believe it's fair to state that the average owner of the 4150 is disappointed over either missing features or current firmware bugs. However after searching this site I really could not find a post dedicated to the issues. Not sure if Phase One regularly checks this site, but it's a good idea to list issues in a public forum.

I feel also that what many owners are concerned about are "missing" features that were available in the 3100 or earlier CMOS backs. Sure Phase One, never guaranteed that these missing features would be available with the 4150, but they did make a big deal about how the new technology in the 4150 would allow for so much easier integration of new features since it was a totally new platform to develop from.


I have listed my issues below in 2 lists, current issues I feel need a fix, and issues that were either overlooked from 3100 or I feel should be addressed. Please note, my first 4150 was very buggy, and seemed to have constant issues that required power on/off rebooting. I was able to replace it with a Value Add loaner back from Phase One and since I received that back the issues I had for card mis-writes or freezes declined considerably. I am grateful to my Dealer, Capture Integration for their assistance with this.

Bugs:

1. Live View is less contrasty and thus makes manual focus harder. I noticed this from day one, and did point it out to my dealer and asked other photographers using the 4150 that had come from the 3100. For me the Live view screen is much harder to dial in a tack sharp manual focus, due to the fact that you see much less contrast in the view. While I still had both my 3100 and new 4150 I did several comparisons and each time the view on the 3100 was much easier to use for me. The focus peaking implementation on the 4150 to me is not the same as peaking as other cameras by other brands, (Nikon, Fuji, Canon etc.) and I find that I don't like the green color used by Phase. (If there is a way to change it white as all other cameras offer, please let me know). Overall the Live View experience for me with the 4150, is nothing like using the 3100, which from day one was excellent and allowed me to quickly dial in focus on a shot.

2. Auto Exposure during Live View is terrible, as each time it's used the screen blooms from over exposed to under exposed at least 3 to 4 times before finally settling down on a exposure. The exposure slider (similar to the one on the 3100), also seems to need finer tuning for exposure delineation. I just find it a very tedious process, again coming from a 3100.

3. Exposure simulation issues. From day one exposure simulation won't work in low light unless you pop the ISO up to a very high rate. Phase's answer was frame rate so that in low light you just can't use it. Well for 50% of my work, low light is just part of the shot. Exposure Simulation on any CMOS camera I have is so much easier to use and in fact all other cameras I leave in that mode. With the 4150, I just can't use it as even in bright light I find the exposures shown on the backs' LCD are as much as 3/4 a stop under exposed from reality.

4. Frame cropping issue with ES, should have listed this first. Since the latest firmware I continue to see an issue with the top of several images being cropped, between 1/4" ro 1/8 of an inch. With a horizontal image the crop is top, with a vertical image crop is to the left (due to how I rotate the back with a tech camera). This issue albeit not a show stopper is problematic since I tend to shoot a lot of pano's and do them with stitching. When this issue shows up, it just adds to the work flow as you have to crop down the remaining issues in the series. Once it shows in a series of images, I need to reboot the back with a power off/on.

5. 4150 is still buggy at times. I still see times where the back either freezes during a write to the card, most times causing a loss of file, and occasionally the back freezes during power up which requires a battery pull. Just mention this as in 2.5 years of use with the 3100, I never saw these type of issues.

6. 4150 does not correctly read remaining battery life. The 4150 shows 5% warning or less when there is easily 20% to 25% of real battery life remaining. I have confirmed this by charger info (pull the 4150 battery when it starts to blink and charger shows 20% left) and by putting same battery into a 3100, which did not show low battery and allowed me to use the same battery 15 more minutes.

Features that are Missing:

1. No adhoc wifi and Capture Pilot, enough said. Still amazing to me that nothing has been done for this. I still feel it's a tech package issue in that adhoc was left out of the design. I have been told this is not the case, but with wifi, most addressing issues are still hard wired to a card or board, so I am still curious to see why adhoc has not arrived. I guess since there is no support for Capure Pilot for the 4150, there is no need for adhoc, card leading or following the horse issue. For field use there is just no excuse for this. And please Phase One, don't blame it on the current iPad tech as the iPad has grown into a extremely powerful device, easily now capable of editing 4K video.

2. Power share between XF and 4150, only allows you to open the battery door on the back and replace the back's battery. It DOES not allow true power sharing between the XF battery and 4150. With the 3100 and power sharing, you could run easily for 1 hour to 1.5 hours on 2 batteries as the 3100 could pull power from the XF battery. This was a huge advantage for field use and I really miss this.

3. HDMI support for playback, again why is this not available? Any and every other camera that I know of that has HDMI support allows you to view the images in playback mode on an external screen. The 4150 only allows this for Live View, and not playback. I like that Phase finally allowed the user to move around the image during Live View when zoomed into 100% which was missing in the 3100, but it should just be a simple issue to let you preview the image on the same external monitor. Since there is no Capure Pilot support to allow this.


Please feel free to add to this list with new posts as each user has different needs and shoots in different situations.

Paul C
 

Pemihan

Well-known member
That is quite a list Paul. I'm glad I stayed with my IQ3 Trichro even though the color cast is significantly reduced on the IQ4 150. I'm used to using LCC and for my kind of shooting it works just fine. Aside from that I mainly use my IQ3 Achromatic.
I recently got a decent offer on a demo IQ4 150 from my dealer, but I passed and I'm glad I did.
 

Mexecutioner

Well-known member
(If there is a way to change it white as all other cameras offer, please let me know)
There is, my back is at home so i cant look into it right now but I remember seeing it when adjusting the threshold and playing with it. There is an assortment of little colored squares to pick from. I left it green, but have thought about making it red.

I think that of you click on the upper right of the "eye" icon they should come up.


EDIT: I just downloaded the latest manual and it shows this on page 51

Screen Shot 2020-02-28 at 10.48.52 AM.jpg
 
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Paul2660

Well-known member
That is interesting as I believe I have latest firmware it my back only has a slider for threshold. No color bar shows. And the threshold bar has no percentage.

I am on

System 6.01.1
IQ 4.01.1.

Dated. 02/10/2019.

Paul C
 

Mexecutioner

Well-known member
That is interesting as I believe I have latest firmware it my back only has a slider for threshold. No color bar shows. And the threshold bar has no percentage.

I am on

System 6.01.1
IQ 4.01.1.

Dated. 02/10/2019.

Paul C
That's bizarre. I believe I am running the same version as you are. I will double check when I get home.

I checked in my downloads folder just now and I downloaded 6.01.1 on October 21, 2019, so most like that's what's on my IQ4.


Rodrigo
 

tjv

Active member
This thread makes me want to go upstairs and kiss my Credo 60, which has zero glitches or problems for my use. I hope they sort the issues Paul points out with the IQ4150 because it’s a logical upgrade path for me for use with my technical camera. It does seem Phase are prioritising institutional / industrial photography over users like us and I am suspicious regarding them withholding features so that that can only be accessed / used on the XT.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
That's bizarre. I believe I am running the same version as you are. I will double check when I get home.

I checked in my downloads folder just now and I downloaded 6.01.1 on October 21, 2019, so most like that's what's on my IQ4.


Rodrigo
You are, I was not using the back in Live view, sorry for confusion. I was just looking at the Focus peaking menu in the back, which is different. Like you pointed out, you have to be in Live view, then slide from the right side, hit the eye icon, and then the screen looks like your post. Had to hit the eye icon several times to get it to bring up the menu, but got it to work.

Thanks for the input, as I was not aware of this and can strike that one off my list and increased the threshold to 850.

Moved it to white and that works much better for me.

Paul C
 

Mexecutioner

Well-known member
You are, I was not using the back in Live view, sorry for confusion. I was just looking at the Focus peaking menu in the back, which is different. Like you pointed out, you have to be in Live view, then slide from the right side, hit the eye icon, and then the screen looks like your post. Had to hit the eye icon several times to get it to bring up the menu, but got it to work.

Thanks for the input, as I was not aware of this and can strike that one off my list and increased the threshold to 850.

Moved it to white and that works much better for me.

Paul C
Great! I am glad you got that one off your list!
 

Aviv1887

Member
Thank you Paul for creating this thread. This is really helpful for current users of the IQ4150 and prospective buyers. I just returned from a trip abroad and with shock noticed you point #4.

4. Frame cropping issue with ES, should have listed this first. Since the latest firmware I continue to see an issue with the top of several images being cropped, between 1/4" ro 1/8 of an inch. With a horizontal image the crop is top, with a vertical image crop is to the left (due to how I rotate the back with a tech camera). This issue albeit not a show stopper is problematic since I tend to shoot a lot of pano's and do them with stitching. When this issue shows up, it just adds to the work flow as you have to crop down the remaining issues in the series. Once it shows in a series of images, I need to reboot the back with a power off/on.

This ES implementation can't even guarantee that you get a full frame recorded. WTF! Lovely that this is not a showstopper for you but to me this was shocking. For example, if your LCC is really important and that can't be implemented anymore due to this issue, that is not helpful. Phase does know about this problem and is working on this. I heard that I was only the second person to notice this but obviously not.

My big "loss" upgrading from the IQ3100 to the IQ4150 has been the workflow of shooting with the copal shutter. You can't just cock and shoot anymore. A mayor bother when you shoot people and you can't time your shot easily anymore with the loss of spontaneity. If you push the wake-up button and you miss the allocated time to shoot, you can wait precious seconds for the DB to reset. It's even worse now then the old wake-up cable on the P backs.

Don't get me wrong, I do love the quality and workflow of this DB. However the IQ3100 was a more robust performer were everything worked as promised and expected.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Thanks for info on the cropped frames. I forgot about the LCC failure. And yes that’s very true. If the LCC does not pick up the same crop it’s not useable.

Paul C
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
Paul..... I'm having a little difficulty regarding your cropping issue. Do you mean that the image itself has a 1/4 - 1/8 inch crop or the image as shown on the LCD screen? Obviously if the image on the LCD screen was 1/4 inch less in height/length that would translate to a much larger affect to the true image dimensions. If it pertains to the image itself then it is very minor albeit still an anomaly that shouldn't be there.

I can't see it so far but just tried a quick shot. From what I see so far I would probably have to shoot a ruler to see if there is a change from WYSIWYG to actual image.

Thanks for starting the thread.......

Victor
 
I haven't bothered with the latest firmware given all the issues that have been reported, so I'm still on a version from sometime last summer/early fall (and am sticking to it because its working for me). For my uses the IQ4 150 works pretty much flawlessly. I only work in electronic shutter and only on a tech camera and all my work is outside (landscapes). I've never bothered with the Capture Pilot or any tethering either. The live focus mask (compound movements), no LCC needed and frame averaging (ditching strong NDs, more creative flexibility) are god sends and I'm actually finding myself enjoying using the IQ4 150 more than any previous back.

That said, totally agree on the issues around exposure simulation and live view modes, I guess I've just adapted. What is very disturbing is what feels like the lack of attention from Phase One. I've never owned a Phase Body where I didn't update to the latest firmware until this one, but with their track record, I wouldn't touch a firmware update until it was baked with real users was sure all issues ironed out. For a $50k product, that should be embarrassing and frankly unless something major changes, this will be my last Phase product (I'm content to use the 150 in its current state until it dies).
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Paul..... I'm having a little difficulty regarding your cropping issue. Do you mean that the image itself has a 1/4 - 1/8 inch crop or the image as shown on the LCD screen? Obviously if the image on the LCD screen was 1/4 inch less in height/length that would translate to a much larger affect to the true image dimensions. If it pertains to the image itself then it is very minor albeit still an anomaly that shouldn't be there.

I can't see it so far but just tried a quick shot. From what I see so far I would probably have to shoot a ruler to see if there is a change from WYSIWYG to actual image.

Thanks for starting the thread.......

Victor
Victor,

You can see the slight crop on the backs LCD. It’s very slight and easy to miss but I went back and looked at the images I have that were effected and it shows. It’s a small amount and is pure black where the image detail should be.

Paul C
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
That's helpful...... I don't see it on the quick image I took. I was very careful to note the top of the image and there is no black space from the taken image on the LCD back and that mimics from what I see on my computer screen.

I would be concerned if I saw what you are seeing.......

Victor B
 

Aviv1887

Member
Victor, if you look in C1 at your images and add a guide on the top of the frame and if you have the missing image (black band) you will see it jump. You will clearly notice this if you have the same issue happening. Phase has been able to replicate the problem and has noticed it happens when the timing between exposures is longer than 11 seconds and your capture for long stretches on time.
 

tjv

Active member
Say what now?!?! I had no idea about this. A total deal breaker for me if that’s the case. Surely this can be fixed in firmware if they wanted?


My big "loss" upgrading from the IQ3100 to the IQ4150 has been the workflow of shooting with the copal shutter. You can't just cock and shoot anymore. A mayor bother when you shoot people and you can't time your shot easily anymore with the loss of spontaneity. If you push the wake-up button and you miss the allocated time to shoot, you can wait precious seconds for the DB to reset. It's even worse now then the old wake-up cable on the P backs.

Don't get me wrong, I do love the quality and workflow of this DB. However the IQ3100 was a more robust performer were everything worked as promised and expected.
 

dchew

Well-known member
Say what now?!?! I had no idea about this. A total deal breaker for me if that’s the case. Surely this can be fixed in firmware if they wanted?
There is no zero latency mode, so you need a wake up signal. The Alpa sync cord works fine, but not the cheapest solution.

Dave
 

dchew

Well-known member
Bug: the “I’m just kidding” No Images error that appears when you turn off the back. Only appears after you shoot a scene you are really excited about.

Missing:
  1. Manual entry for shift, tilt and rise/fall dimensions
  2. Changing electronic shutter speed from live view
  3. Indication that a dark frame will be necessary. On the 3100, the dark frame moon symbol used to gray out / not gray indicating whether a dark frame was required. No indication on the 4150.
Dave
 
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