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Thread: Lack of participation on printing forum.

  1. #1
    Member Dan Berg's Avatar
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    Lack of participation on printing forum.

    A large photography fan base to work with but poor to almost nil participation in the printing forum. 4 threads in Dec. and 47 in the entire year?
    That is quite bleak to say the least. The average printing threads on Luminous Landscape are around 100 per month and over 1200 for the year.
    Isn't anyone over here printing? Maybe it is just me but I am into photography so that I have something to print and mount. It is not only a business but a true passion.
    Would love to see a survey of all the members here to see what they are doing with their images. How many have a print studio? % of people printing versus sending images online to one of the web viewing sites?
    it is possible this site is more of a consumer site rather then the business oriented group on LuLa and that may well be the difference which is ok.
    Come on guys and gals if you have interest we need your participation. Maybe you will get hooked like I have.

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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Hi Dan,

    I print weekly on my Epson 9800 and a smaller Epson 2880 which I am waiting to replace with the Epson 3880 soon. I usually print with photo black in my 9800 and matte black in my 2880 for my portfolio print books.

    As far as discussions, I usually don't have any issues printing. Once I learned how to use the Epson software for printing black and white, my results have been excellent.

    But, yes, I print all the time. There is no better way to feel rewarded for all our hard work picking the best hardware than looking at a great 40" print. I also have framing tools and matte cutters and learned how to make frames.

    I agree that printing is the other half of the story of what we do. Looking at images on a screen just doesn't do it for me and can be very forgiving compared with a large print.

  3. #3
    Member Dan Berg's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Nice to hear from you Steve. I share your enthusiasm and look forward to participating considerably more in 2014.
    Happy Holidays.
    Dan Berg

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Dan, I think it's more because there is a larger audience over at LL, and GetDPI is just a smaller, different, and happier family with a slightly different emphasis. I wouldn't mind seeing the printing portion of the forum grow.

    To me printing is the other half of the equation in photography. Probably 99% of all my printing is done in studio. (I ain't doing wallets!) Fine art printing has grown to be a side-business for me, and I do quite a bit of reproduction work for artists and printing for photographers as well. I think on LL (at the moment) you're more like to hear about the clogs/problems with printers, whereas imho, there are a lot more happy printers working contently and silent from the the forums. My 9900, K7 9890, and 4800 are simply workhorses in my studio.

    There is always something to learn in fine art printing. But my guess is it pales in excitement to someone in the GetDPI family getting a new IQ260/280....and asking for help on how best to spend their money next. It's difficult to show the beauty of a fine art print, maybe the texture or feel of a nice fine art paper---on the web. But yes, it'd be nice to see more on printing issues/topics here at GetDPI.

    ken

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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Dan, I think it's more because there is a larger audience over at LL, and GetDPI is just a smaller, different, and happier family with a slightly different emphasis. I wouldn't mind seeing the printing portion of the forum grow.

    ......... I think on LL (at the moment) you're more like to hear about the clogs/problems with printers, whereas imho, there are a lot more happy printers working contently and silent from the the forums. My 9900, K7 9890, and 4800 are simply workhorses in my studio.

    But yes, it'd be nice to see more on printing issues/topics here at GetDPI.

    ken
    Hi Ken:

    I agree with most of your comments, but if you look at the numbers on line at Getdpi and LL at most times, there are more here!
    I agree that this is a happier, less argumentative group and like you, I have a 4900 that just works. Dan, I think more printing discussions would be a great addition.

    Tom
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    +1 (If that makes sense.)

    Most of my printing is either instruction for students or printing for others (artists, museums, achieves, and a host of other events). I do print some stuff for me. I run Epson 9800, 4800, and 4900 printers.

    I guess one of the problems is how do I show a 4x3 foot print on the web?

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Berg View Post
    A large photography fan base to work with but poor to almost nil participation in the printing forum. 4 threads in Dec. and 47 in the entire year?
    That is quite bleak to say the least. The average printing threads on Luminous Landscape are around 100 per month and over 1200 for the year.
    Isn't anyone over here printing? Maybe it is just me but I am into photography so that I have something to print and mount. It is not only a business but a true passion.
    Would love to see a survey of all the members here to see what they are doing with their images. How many have a print studio? % of people printing versus sending images online to one of the web viewing sites?
    it is possible this site is more of a consumer site rather then the business oriented group on LuLa and that may well be the difference which is ok.
    Come on guys and gals if you have interest we need your participation. Maybe you will get hooked like I have.
    No we are just better at printing and don't need help. ROTFLMAO

    Seriously who gives a **** what LL is doing. The real answer is they just have a bigger base as they been on longer, there is no other reason than that. We are not here to sell videos. Da
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by tsjanik View Post
    Hi Ken:

    I agree with most of your comments, but if you look at the numbers on line at Getdpi and LL at most times, there are more here!
    I agree that this is a happier, less argumentative group and like you, I have a 4900 that just works. Dan, I think more printing discussions would be a great addition.

    Tom
    I could NOT have said that better myself.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Member Dan Berg's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    No we are just better at printing and don't need help. ROTFLMAO

    Seriously who gives a **** what LL is doing. The real answer is they just have a bigger base as they been on longer, there is no other reason than that. We are not here to sell videos. Da
    This was not meant to be a comparison between GetDPI and LuLa.
    I am trying to broaden my horizons and I really like GetDPI.
    My main area of interest is printing and mounting. So I pop in to see whats going on and there are 2 threads in the last 2 weeks. Thats all I was saying,certainly nothing derogatory.

    Oh and Guy,selling flashing advertisements or videos you are in the exact same business.

    Keep up the good work. I am a fanboy really!

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    I know I was just joking around. We are not in competition with anyone, we have a different prospective here and it is about learning and sharing but more important helping each other. Love to see more on printing myself.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    What Ken has failed to mention is he has 2-44" printers and a smaller one (I forgot is it a 24 or 36?) he's got enough to start his own print shop.
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    All kidding aside, printing is a huge portion of what I do as well. I upgraded my Epson to a 9900 last year and so far (knock on wood) no problems. I also have a much small Epson Artisan 50 in the studio in Tucson I use to print DVD's and one here in Jackson to print proofs of images we plan to print full size one we get into the studio in Tucson.

    While the majority of our work is still offered on either canvas or paper we have begun to offer prints on 6x8 and 8x12 ceramic tiles. I quickly learned that the ceramic tile printing is cost prohibitive so that's the only thing we farm out.

    I love the 9900 and feel it a huge upgrade from the 9800 which I used for almost 6 years.
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    I print quite often, but I haven't had much need to discuss it.

    My beat up old Epson R2400 has logged on the order of 8000 11x17 equivalent pages output since 2005. It's still chugging along. The front panel no longer stays shut, I have it taped together, and I've figured out how to keep it printing consistently and reliably with all the papers I use.

    Most recent print jobs I completed (within the past couple of weeks) were five 13x19 prints for my annual photo workshop holiday party print viewing and swap, 120 holiday cards to mail out, and 15 8.5x11 pages for another photo folio I gave as a gift.

    Someday this old thing will croak and I'll feel comfortable replacing it with the 3880 or whatever the next larger size upgrade model is at that time ... :-)

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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Quite agree with all the comments so far...more contributions to the printing forum would be a valuable asset to the getdpi community. Have two Epson 7800's (soon putting up for sale I hope) and a 9800 and print for a variety of commercial interests and clients (and of course for personal use). There are so many variables in printing these days that not only technical discussions would be welcomed but the almost unlimited pallet of printing materials at our disposal that are worthy of mentioning and the sharing of our experiences in utilizing them.

    Dave (D&A)
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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Oh dear, and here is me, I just acquired at no current cost the use of an old Epson 2100 - 7 colour. The 2100 will do roll paper or up to A3. Some paper and ink came with it. I just need to get the heads clear and it will be good to go.

    There is some RIP software with it but I am unsure if I really need to run this for just one off casual jobs.

    BTW: I DO print but most of mine has been Fuji minilab stuff. I like to do albums/ and now do 6x8 two images per page.

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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    I must say that I am not a pro and do not need to print to make a living, so it is a totally different approach.
    I started printing since the first Epsons hit the market. I switched from wet lab to digital lab. When the Epson 4000pro arrived I placed great hope in it. I tried the all lot, quad rip for B&W only etc... In fact I spent my time mostly trying things, filling boxes of trial prints.
    This beast keep clogging all the time and I spent a fortune in inks. Today it seats here unsued, it doesn't grab the sheets of paper anymore, the lines are full of air I should get rid of it very soon.
    Then I made a book over the internet, for 60 bucks you get thirty pages of excellents quality letter size.
    That was it, making a book forces you to have a good thirty pictures serie, you place it on any shelf, you find it right away to flip through whenever you want and you don't mess up cupboards piling up prints of differents sizes. I don't spill inks anymore all over the place.
    If I want a big print, I go to the lab, I saved a lot with this system.
    I loved printing in the wet lab, I never found the same magical with inkjet, however it opens up the final picture as you can have it on so many different papers.
    I droppped printing.
    Then two weeks ago my small printer for desk work went down. I have left some boxes of letter size fine art paper so I looked at what was on the market. I realised that you don't need pigments inks anymore, dyes ink have improved a lot and a hundred years is a long way to go.
    For 100 bucks I bought a lovely Canon MG6350, six inks sets, the results straight out are much better than Eps 4000, and for desk work you get wifi, scanner, recto/verso ect....
    Never a gain will I get large printers, I may make a profile or two but that's going about it.
    So effectively I won't go much on a dedicated forum

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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    To be honest, I am printing less and less and delivering digital formats more and more. But I suspect that's more a function of where I live that may be more digital thinking than other areas of the world. I still print on my Epson 7900, and still enjoy the results, but I am also reasonably certain it will be my last large printer -- unless I find a screaming deal on a gently used 9900 The other side of this is my printer works well and I enjoy the papers I use, so am fairly well "set up" as respects printing discussions.
    Jack
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    Senior Member stngoldberg's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    For over 40 years, I was in the business of coloring textile fabrics with dyestuff and printing textiles with pigments. The technology of applying color to either textiles or paper has evolved to an extent just thrills me especially after the years that I struggled with Cibachrome in my darkroom at home.
    I understand and appreciate the fact that most images today and in the future are/will be conveyed in the digital form, but to me the pursuit of getting the look and feel of that digital image on paper is the most satisfying part of photography today.
    I would like to learn from others and share what I know with more participation on the printing forum here
    Stanley

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    Member Dan Berg's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by stngoldberg View Post
    For over 40 years, I was in the business of coloring textile fabrics with dyestuff and printing textiles with pigments. The technology of applying color to either textiles or paper has evolved to an extent just thrills me especially after the years that I struggled with Cibachrome in my darkroom at home.
    I understand and appreciate the fact that most images today and in the future are/will be conveyed in the digital form, but to me the pursuit of getting the look and feel of that digital image on paper is the most satisfying part of photography today.
    I would like to learn from others and share what I know with more participation on the printing forum here
    Stanley
    +1
    Paper,canvas,acrylic face mounted,dye sub metal and a whole lot more.
    At my workshop this past weekend I laid out 2 tables full of photo mounting options for the student,I think there was 13 in all. The only ones missing were no matted or glass framed prints. I get zero request for those options so do not demonstrate it.
    The process of most interest nowdays is acrylic facemounting and dye sublimation on Chromaluxe metals.

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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    To be honest, I am printing less and less and delivering digital formats more and more. But I suspect that's more a function of where I live that may be more digital thinking than other areas of the world. I still print on my Epson 7900, and still enjoy the results, but I am also reasonably certain it will be my last large printer -- unless I find a screaming deal on a gently used 9900 The other side of this is my printer works well and I enjoy the papers I use, so am fairly well "set up" as respects printing discussions.
    After printing a series of wedding photos for the extended family I took a bit of a rest...and my 4900 head froze up....had to dismantle and cart it out to the street for the recycle/trash. I unloaded all of my extensive paper collections and will need to start afresh at some point.

    Part of my problem was printing for self and ran out of wall space...

    I have been working with PDF books and am now exploring Blurb via inDesign and using a local very accomplished printing firm to do larger prints.

    Do miss the discipline as I think it helps one visualize better....but am pleased to regain the floor space in my office at home.

    I would love to find a small studio and return to digital negative contact platinum printing at some point....

    Bob

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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    My images are printed a lot.

    I just delivered three 9X12 (12X18 spreads) Wedding Albums with 60 pages/30 spreads.

    I used to print my own slip in type albums, but the market moved to bound type books that require mounted silver based type Fuji Crystal Archive laser prints because the facing pages touch each other.

    I print individual inkjets from an Epson 3880 for Wedding and Portrait clients from 8X10 to 17X22. Anything larger, I farm out.

    Many clients have all kinds of my prints framed in their homes ... and send out Holiday cards with family stuff I've shot for them.

    I'm a big advocate of making prints because I think they will be the only thing around 20 to 30 years from now.

    Here's a link to one of my custom designed album e-proofs I put on line for client approval: The printed version ALWAYS looks better.

    Sam/Andrey's Album - fotografz

    - Marc
    Last edited by fotografz; 25th December 2013 at 11:13.
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Marc,


    Any recommendations on printers for the albums and larger prints?

    We used Shutterfly for a card this Christmas .... two prints from my daughters wedding and one of my own on the back...amazing 4 day turn around from order to delivery.

    Bob

    EDIT: Just looked at the link...unbelievably stunning layout for the album!

    Bob

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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    My images are printed a lot.

    I just delivered three 9X12 (12X18 spreads) Wedding Albums with 60 pages/30 spreads.

    I used to print my own slip in type albums, but the market moved to bound type books that require mounted silver based type Fuji Crystal Archive laser prints because the facing pages touch each other.

    I print individual inkjets from an Epson 3880 for Wedding and Portrait clients from 8X10 to 17X22. Anything larger, I farm out.

    Many clients have all kinds of my prints framed in their homes ... and send out Holiday cards with family stuff I've shot for them.

    I'm a big advocate of making prints because I think they will be the only thing around 20 to 30 years from now.

    Here's a link to one of my custom designed album e-proofs I put on line for client approval: The printed version ALWAYS looks better.

    Sam/Andrey's Album - fotografz

    - Marc
    Thanks Bob!

    I put a lot into each album I design and no two are the same... much more work than what I get paid for doing, but what the heck ... it's what we do, right? Why bust a hump doing hundreds of good images and then fall down on the presentation?

    My advice regarding printing books or albums is to find a local lab and develop a relationship with them. Even though most surviving brick & mortar ones are pretty commercial and offer lots of trinkets and trash photo products, there is usually someone that is more serious about it all and appreciates someone that puts a lot into their photography ...in my case it is Don Hite, the owner of Hite Photo near me. They pull proofs and I go and check them before mounting and binding the book.

    Merry Christmas,

    - Marc
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    My images are printed a lot.

    I just delivered three 9X12 (12X18 spreads) Wedding Albums with 60 pages/30 spreads.

    I used to print my own slip in type albums, but the market moved to bound type books that require mounted silver based type Fuji Crystal Archive laser prints because the facing pages touch each other.

    I print individual inkjets from an Epson 3880 for Wedding and Portrait clients from 8X10 to 17X22. Anything larger, I farm out.

    Many clients have all kinds of my prints framed in their homes ... and send out Holiday cards with family stuff I've shot for them.

    I'm a big advocate of making prints because I think they will be the only thing around 20 to 30 years from now.

    Here's a link to one of my custom designed album e-proofs I put on line for client approval: The printed version ALWAYS looks better.

    Sam/Andrey's Album - fotografz

    - Marc
    Beautiful work Mark

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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Berg View Post
    A large photography fan base to work with but poor to almost nil participation in the printing forum. 4 threads in Dec. and 47 in the entire year?
    That is quite bleak to say the least. The average printing threads on Luminous Landscape are around 100 per month and over 1200 for the year.
    Isn't anyone over here printing? Maybe it is just me but I am into photography so that I have something to print and mount. It is not only a business but a true passion.
    Would love to see a survey of all the members here to see what they are doing with their images. How many have a print studio? % of people printing versus sending images online to one of the web viewing sites?
    it is possible this site is more of a consumer site rather then the business oriented group on LuLa and that may well be the difference which is ok.
    Come on guys and gals if you have interest we need your participation. Maybe you will get hooked like I have.
    Dan, it would be interesting to see how many GetDpi members actually print their work on a regular basis.

    My concern in general is the lack-luster interest in prints amongst the public. It seems the "Here today gone today" mentality of FaceBook dominates photography now. I fear whole generations of images are in danger of disappearing. In past, families at least had prints as a record ... now that is much less true. My lab owner read an article about documentarians and historians fearing there will be no record of whole generations in future.

    As the years roll on, it gets harder to print just for yourself ... I have a large flat file drawer that is beyond being full and most all of our wall space features art or photos ... and we have a BIG house with lots of wall space.

    I'm a real "pusher" of prints with my wedding and portrait clients ... and even have taken to including 17X22 and other print sizes to back that up. When clients ask how much it would be without the prints I tell them the price is the same Yet to be honest, the whole wedding and portrait business has gone to hell in a hand-basket, and price/quantity is the primary driver no matter how many value added aspects like prints that you offer. People just want to post pics on their FB sites and all is forgotten with-in 6 months.

    As demand diminishes, it becomes more and more difficult to maintain your own printing capability. I now take every opportunity to make prints for people and even give them away out of principle ... like we went to a neighborhood holiday party to meet old friends and new members of the community, and I shot a few group shots ... then printed an 8X10 for each family and my wife delivered them the next day.

    Without a viable outlet even passion is hard to maintain. We do it ... but it sure would be nice if more people would appreciate what it takes and value it more.

    - Marc

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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    I do print but chemically I'm afraid. Not a fan of the look of inkjets.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  27. #27
    Member Dan Berg's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Dan, it would be interesting to see how many GetDpi members actually print their work on a regular basis.

    My concern in general is the lack-luster interest in prints amongst the public. It seems the "Here today gone today" mentality of FaceBook dominates photography now. I fear whole generations of images are in danger of disappearing. In past, families at least had prints as a record ... now that is much less true. My lab owner read an article about documentarians and historians fearing there will be no record of whole generations in future.

    As the years roll on, it gets harder to print just for yourself ... I have a large flat file drawer that is beyond being full and most all of our wall space features art or photos ... and we have a BIG house with lots of wall space.

    I'm a real "pusher" of prints with my wedding and portrait clients ... and even have taken to including 17X22 and other print sizes to back that up. When clients ask how much it would be without the prints I tell them the price is the same Yet to be honest, the whole wedding and portrait business has gone to hell in a hand-basket, and price/quantity is the primary driver no matter how many value added aspects like prints that you offer. People just want to post pics on their FB sites and all is forgotten with-in 6 months.

    As demand diminishes, it becomes more and more difficult to maintain your own printing capability. I now take every opportunity to make prints for people and even give them away out of principle ... like we went to a neighborhood holiday party to meet old friends and new members of the community, and I shot a few group shots ... then printed an 8X10 for each family and my wife delivered them the next day.

    Without a viable outlet even passion is hard to maintain. We do it ... but it sure would be nice if more people would appreciate what it takes and value it more.

    - Marc


    Marc,
    Thanks for your response.
    A little side story. Several years ago I ran a free group workshop for our local photography club. I think we had around 20 attendees. I started my talk with a little dissertation on color management thinking this was pretty basic stuff for a group of enthusiest photographers. The club leader raises his hand and says Dan I doubt these folks know what you are talking about.
    A little shocked to hear that response I asked how many were printing there own work. 4 yes only 4 printed. I expected 80% not 20%.
    Here was a group of experienced passionate photographers and hardly anyone was printing. So for that day anyway I changed my speech a little more towards promoting the advantages of starting to print your own work.

    You are right digital media is changing everything especially for the non photography oriented consumer. I have very little work off the street. No moms bringing in their kiddie photos to print none of that type of work.
    What is alive and well is printing and mounting for the photography and artisan communtities.
    Photographers that want to see there work printed large for themselves or to sell. Digital reproductions of artists water color and acrylic paintings are also in demand.

    Back on track I am not interested in promoting my print studio but instead the craft of printing. Once you get hooked it is pretty hard to turn back.
    Learning curve and cost are usually what holds many back.

    Finally my little story about the walls being full.
    I have 6 grandchildren who live in a very large house with walls just full of my prints and mounts. Last week I brought 4 more for my daughter to hang and while walking up the driveway I swear I heard several of the kids say
    "Lock the doors its Pop Pop and he has more pictures."
    All kidding aside if you are not printing and would like to. Start setting aside a portion of your annual camera budget for printing equipment and after no time you can have your own little printmaking studio.
    It will do more for your photography then you can imagine.
    Happy printing.

    Dan Berg

  28. #28
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of participation on printing forum.

    It does seem difficult at times to sell portraits in the digital age of facebook. The frequent request for digital files flies in the face of fine art printing and a professional photography studio. I am constantly having to educate prospective clients on the benefits of a professional photographer and professionally printed portraits/images. Digital and the internet have made photography much more accessible, yet at the same time I feel it has lowered the bar in terms of quality and expectations. It's just going on facebook, right? And it's gone.

    That being said, I don't normally sell image files to portrait clients, but will provide web resolution image files of retouched portraits they have purchased. I've only sold my soul a few times by providing small print files (sufficient for 8x10), and that was where the portrait client had made such a large portrait purchase (Graphi family book, wall portraits, frames, smaller portraits) that I couldn't say no. But they are always final, retouched files---never raw, never un-retouched. The client knew, and I was confident, that everything my studio produced would be at a much higher quality level than they could get on their own. I truly feel the run and gun photographers do a disservice to the industry. Commercial clients are different, but even there I see the same attitudes and lowered expectations creeping in.

    What had been mainstream in years past, I see as opportunity in a niche market, with both photography and printing. Portrait clients know I'm aiming to produce a wall portrait sized image, retouched and printed in house. Wedding clients know a Graphi wedding book is required and included in all packages. And I'm sure I do lose a lot of potential clients, but they were never a good match for my studio anyway. But I do try to educate along the way. It's difficult to do as fine art printing is more in hand/in person and can't be shared on the web or over the phone.

    My 9900 easily earns its keep. My converted 9890 K7 B&W piezography printer not so much, but it's more for me to enjoy. I do hope to see that change this next year and produce more B&W K7 images for clients, as that definitely does provide exceptional B&W images and also in a market with few B&W options at this level.

    Educating clients and marketing is non-stop. Pushing image quality and different presentation ideas is also constant. Hope we can all share approaches, printing and framing tips and learn a bit from each other.

    ken

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