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Is it just me?

iiiNelson

Well-known member
One other issue is a lot of gear companies are really not doing much to talk about. Folks the IPhone has ruined many things
I'll take it a step further. Like most things in life companies either adapt, influence, or die slowly.

Regarding this site, I read and visit nearly daily even if I don't post as much as in the past. Life has just gotten busier since deciding to move slightly from the hobbyist role to the part-time pro role on the side. I still take a lot of pictures for myself. I usually don't or can't post them all since some are related to photo jobs. I still post some of my hobbyist photos from travel or my photo walks/rides and test shots in the rare cases when I get new gear. I still like the format here quite a bit. I still believe 99% of the people to be extremely friendly and optimistic - even when there are differences of opinion.

I guess it's a little weird at places such as GetDPI or Rangefinder Forums because the most popular salesoptions aren't the largest draws. We all know that MF, Sony,Nikon, Micro 4/3, Fuji, and then Canon probably get the most attention activity wise here whereas a place like Fred Miranda seems to be mostly CaNikon with Sony slowly getting more attention over the last year or so. I spent plenty of time on LUF back when I was almost exclusively Leica (that's actually how I found this place) but often times people seemed a bit too elitist if your Leica shot wasn't taken with a M or S (even if you owned one) and often times I believe cultural barriers got in the way of many people.

I dont one mind the gear talk. I don't live in a city anymore with a wide assortment of camera shops. Really there's only two. I have joined a local photo group from Facebook that has quite a few Sony shooters but I've been at the point for years that I'll shoot whatever works best for me.
 

jerome_m

Member
For most people this is a hobby and like many Hobbies they lose interest after awhile and wander off. That's seems to be natural progression. Some get bored and myself I get tired of it sometimes and busy with family. But what bugs me is when I do these long tests and post I get very few responses as that's a clear sign folks are losing interest. I know one thing I can't carry this place so it needs people to do that. Not sure what else to say but I feel sometimes forums are becoming a slow death as social media is taking over which I honestly have zero interest in. One other issue is a lot of gear companies are really not doing much to talk about. Folks the IPhone has ruined many things
The decrease of activity concerns all forums, not just getdpi and even not just photo forums. All forums have seen their audience decrease in the past 10 years: hobbies, politics, health, anything. So it is not the iPhone and the stagnation in photo gear.

Part of the explanation is the rise in social media. Part of the explanation is that more and more people access the internet through phones and tablet and not computers. Part of the explanation is that the web turned commercial and forums are not really adapted for that.
 

stngoldberg

Well-known member
Nothing wrong with this forum that more images won't fix.
Come on gang, post lots of pictures so we can learn from each other
Stanley
 

Tim

Active member
Regarding this site, I read and visit nearly daily even if I don't post as much as in the past. Life has just gotten busier
I've also lurked more than posted in recent months. At times I've posted and it appeared to me at times that I was totally ignored here, however it seems its many other members experience also.

Case in point with forums is the Ricoh forum here - General Error has pretty much died, one post a week or so, however the Facebook Ricoh GR forum has some of the best images I've seen in years and many posts regularly all day.

One site that is quite alive still is https://www.photographerslounge.org/ however, I gravitated away due to one particular member.

With the social media groups, you do get to see rapidly a lot of images, but there is little to zero discussion, both discussion and images are here. The discussion here no matter gear or image making is all valuable and engaging to me. I am an aficionado of wristwatches both mechanical and quartz. The FB groups are, "look at my latest" whereas the Watch forums discuss and review in depth.

Keep the doors open.
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
Well... no, not really. Some members of my family are very much into facebook. If I get an account, I know very well that I will be expected to spend time each day to like and comment on their extensive feeds. I also know that they will then only contact me via facebook. They already complain that they have to remember my email address or phone when they need to contact me while "facebook is so much more convenient".
This not my experience. Although I do like or comment once in a while on stuff published by (oversea) family members, I mostly communicate directly life, by mail, by phone or skype and they don't expect me to react on every bit they put on FB.

I also wonder about the aspect of "social validation" on facebook. Forums are quite simple: one has to prove value by posting interesting stuff. One can even be anonymous on a forum. Facebook appears to be quite different. I had an interesting discussion with an artist a few months ago. Her gallerist made it quite clear that her professional must be curated between other artists (successful ones) and followers. She cannot follow people who are not successful artists, that would not reflect positively on her work. Apparently, there is no place for amateurs in that ecosystem, except as customers of course.
There are just so many good photographers out there on FB. People like Fred Hoerr, Dave Jordano, Bart van Damme, Paul d'Haese, Marcus Lehr, Brad McMurray, Hans Wildschut, Koos Breukel, Daniel Bartoll Rios, Julio López Saguar and Antonino di Leo to name a few. There is very nice group which interests me, started by Daniel Bartoll Rios called "A Man Altered Landscape "which interests me very much.
Professionals don'te feel to good to mix with amateurs who want to broaden their horizons. If they comment, mostly short or like your photograph you know it means something.
If you're more interested in other genres I am sure you can find a group to join.
And it works the same as here on forums: you prove value by posting interesting stuff.

But I like getdpi mainly because of its friendly mix of contributers. And some of the gear discussions are informative and sometimes very funny.
 

jerome_m

Member
But what bugs me is when I do these long tests and post I get very few responses as that's a clear sign folks are losing interest.
A few years ago, I did a comprehensive test of most available Sony lenses on the A900. I had access to quite a few and I had access to a building high up where I could see far away. I did a simple landscape test: angle the camera so that the horizon runs from corner to corner and take a series of pictures at apertures between wide open and f/11.

The images looked like this:



For selected lenses, I did a summary comparison like that:



The test is quite useful (at least for me), because it tests at the infinite (while test charts are taken at short distances, which is a big problem for wide-angle lenses). There is also little that can go wrong: focus errors or shutter blur can be easily spotted and one does not need to insure that the subject is square to the camera. I still use the same test to make sure that a new bought lens is not too decentered and to compare new lenses to old ones.

So, on my flickr account, there were about 20 albums, each with a given Sony/Minolta lens. There were also comparisons by focal length. Each image was downloadable at full resolution (using flickr interface). A few years later, I got a Nikon D800 and did the same work for various Nikon lenses. Still a few years later, I got an H4D-50 and did the same for various Hasselblad lenses. There is an example here for the HC-50 II.

My motivation was to motivate other people to do the same test with their lenses. After all, all one needs is a place where one can see far away. I would have benefited from similar tests with lenses I did not have. So on each album and under each picture there was a small summary on how to do that, but eventually Flickr changed their interface so that people do not see these comments any more. Anyway, even during the years when the comment was obvious, nobody took the challenge.

Flickr keeps statistics, so I know that some images were downloaded a few thousands times.

At the time, I posted these tests on various forums I used to frequent at the time. I mainly received negative comments: that downloading pictures was too difficult, that the comparison was not easy, that the light changed between pictures, did I use a tripod stable enough?, that I should test a different lens/camera, that I should have used imatest, etc... The number of positive comments and thank you notes was much smaller, I think I can count them on my fingers.

At the time the A7r went to market, I thought about getting one and use it to compare some Nikon and Sony lenses directly. Eventually, I realised it would only attract criticism. In the end, after a fair warning on the forums to allow interested people to download what they were interested to keep, I took the pictures down.

So, Guy, please don't be too hard on yourself: if you don't get positive feedback from your tests, it's not the fault of your tests.
 

jerome_m

Member
This not my experience. Although I do like or comment once in a while on stuff published by (oversea) family members, I mostly communicate directly life, by mail, by phone or skype and they don't expect me to react on every bit they put on FB.
Obviously, the experience depends a lot on the people one may know. I know for sure that, should I have a facebook account, some family members will require constant attention from me and not communicate with anything else. Not all of them, of course, but one or two is enough for me to pass on facebook.

There are just so many good photographers out there on FB. People like Fred Hoerr, Dave Jordano, Bart van Damme, Paul d'Haese, Marcus Lehr, Brad McMurray, Hans Wildschut, Koos Breukel, Daniel Bartoll Rios, Julio López Saguar and Antonino di Leo to name a few. There is very nice group which interests me, started by Daniel Bartoll Rios called "A Man Altered Landscape " which interests me very much.
Professionals don't feel to good to mix with amateurs who want to broaden their horizons. If they comment, mostly short or like your photograph you know it means something.
If you're more interested in other genres I am sure you can find a group to join.
And it works the same as here on forums: you prove value by posting interesting stuff.
But aren't you supposed to post pictures at a regular, constant, rate to get comments on facebook? I know that instagram or tumblr work in that way: to get followers, one has to post a continuous stream of pictures, ideally every day.

As to the group you cited, a simple google search shows that I can follow it without being a facebook member: here. It indeeds looks interesting, thank you. I will probably watch it now. I already follow Unless you will on facebook (without an account), you may also like it.

But I like getdpi mainly because of its friendly mix of contributers. And some of the gear discussions are informative and sometimes very funny.
I follow forums because they are the place to get news about gear, software, etc...
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
Obviously, the experience depends a lot on the people one may know. I know for sure that, should I have a facebook account, some family members will require constant attention from me and not communicate with anything else. Not all of them, of course, but one or two is enough for me to pass on facebook.



But aren't you supposed to post pictures at a regular, constant, rate to get comments on facebook? I know that instagram or tumblr work in that way: to get followers, one has to post a continuous stream of pictures, ideally every day.

As to the group you cited, a simple google search shows that I can follow it without being a facebook member: here. It indeeds looks interesting, thank you. I will probably watch it now. I already follow Unless you will on facebook (without an account), you may also like it.



I follow forums because they are the place to get news about gear, software, etc...
Well I like to post on a regular basis.

BTW you can see and follow the group but not post in it unless you become a member.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
For most people this is a hobby and like many Hobbies they lose interest after awhile and wander off. That's seems to be natural progression. Some get bored and myself I get tired of it sometimes and busy with family. But what bugs me is when I do these long tests and post I get very few responses as that's a clear sign folks are losing interest. I know one thing I can't carry this place so it needs people to do that. Not sure what else to say but I feel sometimes forums are becoming a slow death as social media is taking over which I honestly have zero interest in. One other issue is a lot of gear companies are really not doing much to talk about. Folks the IPhone has ruined many things
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you, but am not sure "ruined" is quite correct. It has most certainly changed photography … probably as much or more than digital originally did.

Apple's original theme line when launching their personal computer was "The computer for the rest of us", (at the time referencing Apple's focus on the individual, verses IBM's focus on business). The iPhone was a continuation of that concept, placing photography in the hands of the masses with a photographic tool that is always with the person.

The result is a down-playing of photographic craftsmanship, and a strong surge of content driven imagery especially personal photography. Now if Aunt Milly in her garden party finest staggers off into the pool during a family barbecue, 20 cell phones capture it and in a matter of seconds it's on FaceBook, U-Tube, etc. If it goes viral, millions may see it. These social sites are endlessly connected personal networks that define the term "Web". You have a friend that has hundreds of friends, who each have hundreds of friends, and so on.

In the end, most folks want their work to be seen. As Picasso once said … "A painting kept in the closet, might as well be kept in the head." The answer to that for the upcoming younger generations is social sites, not the more traditional path many of us are used to … which in turn, are fast disappearing.

In my former field of endeavor, weddings, well over a decade ago a shot taken at a Kennedy wedding by Denis Reggie defined the sort of romantic photography that went mainstream. More recently, a shot by some obscure photographer of a T-Rex chasing a wedding party went viral over-night, and was even picked up on news shows. For over a year afterwards a lot of prospective wedding clients wanted something like that:banghead: I knew it was time to gracefully bow out.

Even technical info has been impacted. If you Google a tech question, there are probably twenty U-Tube, step-by-step videos that answer it.

So, my take on photography forums is that they must evolve and offer something of greater substance than just tech talk, tests, or posting images in a cloistered environment.

Which brings up the dicey subject of … purpose.

With commercial photography, there is an underlying purpose going in. The client wants to communicate something. Then ideas are formed, approaches considered, craftsmanship is applied … but all are held accountable to that underlying purpose.

When I see a great shot here on GetDpi, I often wonder what inspired it? What was the purpose either going in, or what planned or intuitive idea or aesthetic insight suddenly struck the photographer that led to the image? How it was technically pulled off is of some interest, but secondary to why the photo was made in the first place.

I get that many folks do this because of the personal satisfaction … the "doing" being an important component. Yet when we post resulting images, the viewer was not there for the "doing". That personal experience isn't inherent in the image.

I wonder where this train of thought might lead us … if anywhere?

- Marc

P.S., Guy, your lens tests are so comprehensive, so well done, that I'm not sure what there is to say in response other than thank you!
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
I understand that. Are the few eventual "mostly short or like your photograph" comments I may get on my pictures worth the hassle? I don't think so. I will simply lurk.
I do this because I want to see my own work in the context of other peoples photographs. How do they compose? What subjects do they choose etc. And visa versa. It is to sharpen my mind. It is a way to make better judgements on what you're doing. It is not the ultimate goal just flocking some pictures on the web. It is for to learn and better your own skills in looking, choosing and composing.
One like or comment is worth more then the other just because you know when someone is good in the field of your specific interest, it really means something.
What interests me most is how other people look/choose what should be framed. Not so much how they did it.

And this is all subordinate to exhibiting and/or making books with my own photographs. It all has a purpose for me.

Once it was a guilty pleasure of myself to learn about the character of lenses and photography; but I have seen enough pictures of flowers by now.
For me it is an interesting exchange and I don't need long comments like you should crop of this or that figure shouldn't be standing there or it is a shame that car is in the frame etc.

What you said in the other thread about doing an intensive lens test and after all the effort people starting to critisise your used methods always stroke me as well as a very ungrateful thing to do.
I always thought testing is a very ungratifying thing to do.
Personally, when I see a lot of those small frames, I try to run to the conclusion as soon as possible, I just don't have the patience to look at them all.
I like the way Guy does it with the big examples.
 

jerome_m

Member
In the end, most folks want their work to be seen. As Picasso once said … "A painting kept in the closet, might as well be kept in the head." The answer to that for the upcoming younger generations is social sites, not the more traditional path many of us are used to … which in turn, are fast disappearing.
I think that there are millions of people producing work and who wants their work to be seen and only a minority of viewers. So, basically, it boils down to taking the pictures the masses want to see and playing the "social" game to get a group of followers. I have seen that on flickr, the ones asking for "friendship" are quasi-systematically members trying to get a large number of followers. They are not really interested in anyone pictures beyond their own, they are only marketing themselves.

We simply have many more photographers than people wanting to look at photographs.
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
I think that there are millions of people producing work and who wants their work to be seen and only a minority of viewers. So, basically, it boils down to taking the pictures the masses want to see and playing the "social" game to get a group of followers. I have seen that on flickr, the ones asking for "friendship" are quasi-systematically members trying to get a large number of followers. They are not really interested in anyone pictures beyond their own, they are only marketing themselves.

We simply have many more photographers than people wanting to look at photographs.
Of course people use social media for their own benefit as well that's what its for. Nothing wrong with that. But is clearly not your cup of thea.

Yes everybody takes pictures, eats lunch and goes to the loo.
 

jerome_m

Member
Of course people use social media for their own benefit as well that's what its for. Nothing wrong with that. But is clearly not your cup of tea.

Yes everybody takes pictures, eats lunch and goes to the loo.
Well, I am sorry for not sharing your enthusiasm. I like the picture groups you pointed at, I find the pictures of the Los Angeles river system fascinating, I appreciated very much your pictures of Normandy beach houses. My own pictures are certainly not as interesting and I don't expect them to attract more than a polite passing comment on groups composed in their majority of professional photographers. I will follow the group, though.
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
therein lies a problem here. I doubt anyone will reply to this even :banghead:
Posting in the more popular threads helps.

I seldom get replies, but then I seldom post opinions or information anymore. It is not a rewarded activity. It's much easier to draw derision than discussion.

There are good photographers here, and helpful people as well. I still learn a lot from this site, even if it is no longer a place where I can share opinions.

Best,

Matt
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Many subjects I don't find worth getting heavily involved in and arguing about a lot. This being one of them.

For me the forum offers two main areas of attraction. One is enjoying the images posted. The other is learning about many different aspects of photography in general and new gear related discussions specifically. The latter seems to have gravitated more to FM lately though.
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
Many subjects I don't find worth getting heavily involved in and arguing about a lot. This being one of them.

For me the forum offers two main areas of attraction. One is enjoying the images posted. The other is learning about many different aspects of photography in general and new gear related discussions specifically. The latter seems to have gravitated more to FM lately though.
What we are discussing here that the talking is almost never about content but mainly about gear. To get inspired you need interesting content instead of endless sharpness in the corner discussions. I like new gear and tech info as well but it should not be the only main course. And that has all to do with the gear camp's construction of the site. I think that's what John ment starting this thread.

Here's a picture I forgot which camera it took :grin: Oh it so sharp it must be a.......

 
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