The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Is it just me?

V

Vivek

Guest
".. endless discussions in corners sharpness"

You forget all the other subtle features such as "micro contrast" or the multitude of things that make a best modern digi cam. :lecture:
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
What we are discussing here that the talking is almost never about content but mainly about gear. To get inspired you need interesting content instead of endless sharpness in the corner discussions. I like new gear and tech info as well but it should not be the only main course. And that has all to do with the gear camp's construction of the site. I think that's what John ment starting this thread.

Here's a picture I forgot which camera it took :grin: Oh it so sharp it must be a.......


Here is my suggestion. Under Digital Camera Forum let's add a category Story Time • Content Focus.
That title doesn't rule anything out but gives a clear direction towards content and not gear.
My 2 cents, respectively my 2 contributions to this thread.
Knock yourselves out. :grin:
 
V

Vivek

Guest
New title/category/thread, i ask again, how that will change things?
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
One other thought that came across me, there are fewer "classically trained" photographers these days with increased automation and fine arts programs going away (at least in American grade schools). That's not to say that's the case here but outside some of the more famous Magnum, landscape, or street photographers I've happen to come across... I don't know that much about art history or classic photography.

What at I do know is that many of the subjects in pictures here interest me while some don't. Although I can appreciate their skills in other things like color, gear used, processing technique, etc. end of the day this is still a great forum that I continue to read and occasionally contribute to.
 

Annna T

Active member
Sorry, late to the thread, I missed that it was reanimated three days ago.

I would also welcome a thread dedicated more to content than gear. I find it frustrating to get to know some participants better and appreciate their work and then ooops they disappear from your radar because they have changed system. I'm more interested in what people photograph than in the gear they used. It wouldn't be so important if the threads remained active, but I saw how the MFT forum almost died away. That is when I begun reading the Sony forum where all had migrated and when I got GAS. And now the Sony forum seems to slide down the same slope.

That said, may be it isn't by case, that the content threads don't get as much success as the gear threads. It is always more difficult to discuss content, aka the pictures we produce; it is difficult, because who are we to judge the pictures of others ? their intentions ? and whether they succeeded in what they did. So these threads often end in mutual congratulations, because most people want to be kind with others. Some solve the problems giving likes to every pictures showing up. At the beginning, I was very sparse with the likes clicking only on pictures a) that were well done and b) whose content interested me and corresponded me. But after a while, when you receive likes you give some back.. I'm not very far from clicking like for everything that shows up, especially now that the forums are becoming slower; it is a way to encourage the few posts remaining. In the end, a short comment showing that you have noted the picture is probably the best thing to do.

At Jerome M : you sound quite pessimist and too negative. Of course, the internet has a great potential theoretically allowing the interaction between professional photographers, photo-artist and amateurs (although the limits between those categories are quite fleeting). But at the same time, as an amateur we have to know and accept where we stand and we shouldn't expect too much. If our expectations are calibrated with what we are, then things can be fruitful. Also frequent and regular posters get more attention than sporadic forumers, just because the others know them better.

I took Michiel's advice and created an account at facebook and thanks to his advice I seem to have landed in the right group for me. That said, I felt a little more comfortable at Flickr. There is too much clutter on the FB pages and the layout doesn't go well with my tablet. Hopefully it won't be too time consuming.
 
Last edited:

Barry Haines

Active member
Just one of my many foolish ideas and I have many of them the older I get :loco: + I'm not even sure if it's possible to implement!
But...why not just have a new category, which is only controlled by Admin/Mods for adding any new threads within it...........(named) IMAGES, fun with...
Then "mirror all or just some" of the major existing "Fun with threads" and any new ones created in the future into this one new category...This should hopefully then keep everybody happy for those who want to be under one roof who are image orientated (where gear talk doesn't necessarily dominate the thread ) + It shouldn't spoil the way it already stands for those who like to chat gear etc... :)
Personally I feel this would encourage you to look at other images from the other camps + It would probably be a lot easier to navigate (zap) around if you were only interested in seeing mainly images.
The main problem that I can foresee is the thanks/likes would also end up getting doubled up once it was mirrored...So I would restrict the option for thanks/likes to either the new category or leave it the way it stands.
Just my 2 pence worth...Cheers Barry
 
Interesting idea!

My impression is that folks who comment here tend to be more interested in images than just in gear - but administrators don't seem to be pursuing any plans for changing?

Kirk
 

jerome_m

Member
At Jerome M : you sound quite pessimist and too negative. Of course, the internet has a great potential theoretically allowing the interaction between professional photographers, photo-artist and amateurs (although the limits between those categories are quite fleeting). But at the same time, as an amateur we have to know and accept where we stand and we shouldn't expect too much. If our expectations are calibrated with what we are, then things can be fruitful. Also frequent and regular posters get more attention than sporadic forumers, just because the others know them better.
You are right that I was having a bad day.

But allow me to take your comment about amateurs and professional to the next level. The question is about lack of posts in this forum. I noticed that all forums are the same, a message which apparently motivated you to read this thread.

Now, what would motivate professional photographers to post on the Internet? I think this is part of the problem here.

When this and other forums started, the web was a lot less commercial than today. I believe that, for some professional or generally experienced photographers, the availability of discussion groups was felt like a way to meet contacts, talk shop, maybe kill some time between long renderings or prints, etc... Also: at the time, photography was still in transition to digital and professional photographers needed some knowledge that only hackers and nerds had. The hackers were on forums.

Today the situation is quite different. It starts with "professional photographer" being a different concept than it once was. I'll give you some examples of professional photographers I know:

K. G. has a studio with about 5 full time people. He mainly shoots catalogues. Last time I was there, he had been shooting handbags for 3 days, about 30 different models in all colours. That is his job and it pays the bill every month. He is very knowledgeable about lights (e.g. how to light bottles and glasses...) and has no need for camera technique. His clients are content with 10 mpix. K. does not use forums (finds the discussions a waste of time) and at the end of his work day wants nothing less than interacting with a computer, because K. spends already most of his time on the computer (retouching, etc...). 10 years ago, it was different. K is the classical "professional photographer" as one may imagine them.

O.C. also derives 100% of his income from photography. O. mainly sells workshops and gets a kickback when he manages to convince one of his loaded pupils to buy a MF camera or some cool ligths. O. is very active on some forums (not in English), that is where he gets most of his customers. O. pretends to be a cool and competent photographer by shooting scantily clad nubile women and becomes very aggressive when one criticise his work on forums or remarks that his "tear sheets" are all from vanity magazines. Protecting his image is part of his daily job.

M. S. and a few others derive their income from photography via instagram. M. has millions of followers and sells his feed to the highest buyer via product placement. M. spends a full day of work just making sure his feed has 10 new images each day. It does not pay very well, but M. lives in a low wage country.

M. J. is an "artist". Actually, he lives from grants, residencies and giving some subsidised evening courses. I don't think he has sold much through galleries in the past years, if ever. M. courses are designed to make sure the pupils realise that he is an artist and you are not. He also organise "exhibitions" in his some of his courses, for which he gets all the credit and the pupils who took the pictures none. M. is too old to use the Internet efficiently and he would only participate in a forum as a "guest artist" anyway. Mixing with non-artists would damage his image (a real problem, explained to me once very seriously by a gallerist).

G. H. is like M., just younger. I don't know what he lives from, maybe his wife pays, maybe his parents still finance him. G. is busy building his résumé. He wants to be recognised as an "artist". G. started with forums, but quickly realised that web-only "magazines" would look better on his résumé as "magazines" and that they take his pictures without complaining too much. He managed to take part in a few exhibitions, mostly virtual. His social feeds are important because having many "followers" looks good on his résumé (if you are interested I have a fascinating video about that).

I probably forgot a few other types, but it should give you an overview of the situation.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Interesting idea!

My impression is that folks who comment here tend to be more interested in images than just in gear - but administrators don't seem to be pursuing any plans for changing?

Kirk
These forums are already in place. They get very little traction
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
You are right that I was having a bad day.

But allow me to take your comment about amateurs and professional to the next level. The question is about lack of posts in this forum. I noticed that all forums are the same, a message which apparently motivated you to read this thread.

Now, what would motivate professional photographers to post on the Internet? I think this is part of the problem here.

When this and other forums started, the web was a lot less commercial than today. I believe that, for some professional or generally experienced photographers, the availability of discussion groups was felt like a way to meet contacts, talk shop, maybe kill some time between long renderings or prints, etc... Also: at the time, photography was still in transition to digital and professional photographers needed some knowledge that only hackers and nerds had. The hackers were on forums.

Today the situation is quite different. It starts with "professional photographer" being a different concept than it once was. I'll give you some examples of professional photographers I know:

K. G. has a studio with about 5 full time people. He mainly shoots catalogues. Last time I was there, he had been shooting handbags for 3 days, about 30 different models in all colours. That is his job and it pays the bill every month. He is very knowledgeable about lights (e.g. how to light bottles and glasses...) and has no need for camera technique. His clients are content with 10 mpix. K. does not use forums (finds the discussions a waste of time) and at the end of his work day wants nothing less than interacting with a computer, because K. spends already most of his time on the computer (retouching, etc...). 10 years ago, it was different. K is the classical "professional photographer" as one may imagine them.

O.C. also derives 100% of his income from photography. O. mainly sells workshops and gets a kickback when he manages to convince one of his loaded pupils to buy a MF camera or some cool ligths. O. is very active on some forums (not in English), that is where he gets most of his customers. O. pretends to be a cool and competent photographer by shooting scantily clad nubile women and becomes very aggressive when one criticise his work on forums or remarks that his "tear sheets" are all from vanity magazines. Protecting his image is part of his daily job.

M. S. and a few others derive their income from photography via instagram. M. has millions of followers and sells his feed to the highest buyer via product placement. M. spends a full day of work just making sure his feed has 10 new images each day. It does not pay very well, but M. lives in a low wage country.

M. J. is an "artist". Actually, he lives from grants, residencies and giving some subsidised evening courses. I don't think he has sold much through galleries in the past years, if ever. M. courses are designed to make sure the pupils realise that he is an artist and you are not. He also organise "exhibitions" in his some of his courses, for which he gets all the credit and the pupils who took the pictures none. M. is too old to use the Internet efficiently and he would only participate in a forum as a "guest artist" anyway. Mixing with non-artists would damage his image (a real problem, explained to me once very seriously by a gallerist).

G. H. is like M., just younger. I don't know what he lives from, maybe his wife pays, maybe his parents still finance him. G. is busy building his résumé. He wants to be recognised as an "artist". G. started with forums, but quickly realised that web-only "magazines" would look better on his résumé as "magazines" and that they take his pictures without complaining too much. He managed to take part in a few exhibitions, mostly virtual. His social feeds are important because having many "followers" looks good on his résumé (if you are interested I have a fascinating video about that).

I probably forgot a few other types, but it should give you an overview of the situation.

From Pro seat as i post very little if any client work. Its either has some reason I don't. First we are afraid of theft, we have contracts with clients or we don't want to post images of our clients becuase we may not have a release or its just not the right thing to do. Anyway many reasons and I'm jetting out the door but bottom line we get paid to shoot and most times we will not share those images for a variety of reasons. I don't but mostly my personal stuff I will. Folks need to realize we are not here to learn or get information as we are established have a process in place and we don't need to talk about it. I certainly do not need to be here to make a living from the data it gathers. Im here for reasons that pretty much no Pro wants to do and that is give back. Im a rare breed here. GetDPI is not active at all in recruiting new faces , new members or trying to promote anything. We are not into social media as owners we are just a bunch of old dogs that could give a rats *** if we are on Facebook, Tweeter or gaining blog popularity. Thats who we are and we are not going to be social media butterflies anytime soon. You want to talk shop have fun meet friends and generally learn from others thats who we are and it aint going to change. We keep adding these forums you want but no one goes in them to post. We tired to make a few dollars with the Buy and Sell and it was like asking for 10 percent of your income. You all bitched about it but FM is a true success at charging a few dollars. So you tell me WTF is that about . Send a PM to Jack and Bob they are the primary owners you have some ideas to give them.
 

pegelli

Well-known member
These forums are already in place. They get very little traction
That's right Guy, but some people complained that the forum/thread names don't encourage posting pictures.
I don't know if it helps, but it doesn't hurt trying to follow-up on my earlier question :

Question for the moderators:

Can we change the titles of two things:
- Remove "Artful" from the forum "Artful Images to share, incl. NSFW"
- Rename the sticky thread in there to "PAD - Picture a Day - Have Fun"

Maybe that will encourage people to post more there, at least that's what I'm hoping :cool:
If you don't want to do it or think it's a stupid idea and have no problem if you say that. But totally ignoring it doesn't feel good either :eek:
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Guy, Just to be clear I was not against the BS charges. In fact, I campaigned for monetary support of the site.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
That's right Guy, but some people complained that the forum/thread names don't encourage posting pictures.
I don't know if it helps, but it doesn't hurt trying to follow-up on my earlier question :



If you don't want to do it or think it's a stupid idea and have no problem if you say that. But totally ignoring it doesn't feel good either :eek:
I leave those decisions up to Bob and Jack. Whatever works is fine with me
 

jerome_m

Member
From Pro seat as i post very little if any client work. Its either has some reason I don't. First we are afraid of theft, we have contracts with clients or we don't want to post images of our clients becuase we may not have a release or its just not the right thing to do. Anyway many reasons and I'm jetting out the door but bottom line we get paid to shoot and most times we will not share those images for a variety of reasons. I don't but mostly my personal stuff I will. Folks need to realize we are not here to learn or get information as we are established have a process in place and we don't need to talk about it. I certainly do not need to be here to make a living from the data it gathers. Im here for reasons that pretty much no Pro wants to do and that is give back. Im a rare breed here. GetDPI is not active at all in recruiting new faces , new members or trying to promote anything. We are not into social media as owners we are just a bunch of old dogs that could give a rats *** if we are on Facebook, Tweeter or gaining blog popularity. Thats who we are and we are not going to be social media butterflies anytime soon. You want to talk shop have fun meet friends and generally learn from others thats who we are and it aint going to change. We keep adding these forums you want but no one goes in them to post. We tired to make a few dollars with the Buy and Sell and it was like asking for 10 percent of your income. You all bitched about it but FM is a true success at charging a few dollars. So you tell me WTF is that about . Send a PM to Jack and Bob they are the primary owners you have some ideas to give them.
Maybe I need to answer, since you quoted my message.

I gave a few examples of professional photographers I know personally, not to criticise them but to try to explain why forums have suffered a steady decline.

The first one (K.G.), you would actually like. He is a really nice guy and quite competent to. And you said something important that I forgot, you said you are here to "give it back". K.G. does the same, in his own ways: he has a free meetup in his studio once a month. That is how I know about him. I try to go there regularly.

I can understand the concept of giving it back. I try to do that, as far as I can. Here, I usually try to answer questions when I know the answer. I also published some lens tests, as explained in the previous page. I thought they could be useful to others.

What changed, maybe, is that there are new ways to be a "professional photographer". I tried to give a few examples with the other photographers. And these new ways to be a "professional photographer" imply that one does not "give it back". It is not compatible with their business model.

I am not exactly sure how and why, but my feeling is that these new commercial attitudes are part of the slow disaffection of forums. Maybe a variation on the Tragedy of the commons (link to wikipedia, perfectly safe).
 

Annna T

Active member
You are right that I was having a bad day.

But allow me to take your comment about amateurs and professional to the next level. The question is about lack of posts in this forum. I noticed that all forums are the same, a message which apparently motivated you to read this thread.

Now, what would motivate professional photographers to post on the Internet? I think this is part of the problem here.
I found your analysis as to why the number of posts were generally decreasing in photo forums interesting.

Concerning your analysis of the different professionals relationship to the Internet, you may be right, but why is it important ? I talk about photography and/or show my pictures with those who care/want, whether they are amateurs, enthusiast or professional doesn't really matter for me, as long as they share interesting information or content. Professionals owe nothing to us amateurs; they owe something to their clients. A good info is a good info, a good discussion a good discussion, whoever the participant is.
 

Annna T

Active member
You are right that I was having a bad day.

But allow me to take your comment about amateurs and professional to the next level. The question is about lack of posts in this forum. I noticed that all forums are the same, a message which apparently motivated you to read this thread.

Now, what would motivate professional photographers to post on the Internet? I think this is part of the problem here.
I found your analysis as to why the number of posts were generally decreasing in photo forums interesting.

Concerning your analysis of the different professionals relationship to the Internet, you may be right, but why is it important ? I talk about photography and/or show my pictures with those who want whether they are amateurs, enthusiast or professional doesn't really matter for me, as long as they share interesting information or content.

I just hope that the friendly forums of GetDPI won't become too dormant.
 

pegelli

Well-known member
I leave those decisions up to Bob and Jack. Whatever works is fine with me
I'm not picky who answers or decides (or not) to make the changes, I only addressed my question to you since you're the only one of the mods participating in this discussion.
 

pegelli

Well-known member
Concerning your analysis of the different professionals relationship to the Internet, you may be right, but why is it important ? I talk about photography and/or show my pictures with those who want whether they are amateurs, enthusiast or professional doesn't really matter for me, as long as they share interesting information or content.
Annna, well said. That's exactly the same case for me. One way for me to increase the number of pictures I see is start following other "fun with" threads, for instance MF, Nikon, Leica Q and Pentax K1. There is some great work there and for me it doesn't matter that it's very unlikely I will ever own or use one of those cameras. It's the pictures that do it for me. I'm now using the "what's new" functionality much more and once the Hasselblad announcement storm is over that will easily point me to where interesting content can be found without hunting through multiple forums and threads.
 
Top