Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
This one of Jack's even is better in look
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E
ellemand
Guest
Sorry nostatic.
Didn't see your comment
Thanks for your opinion - I'll try your suggestions.
Cheers
Ellemand
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellemand/
Didn't see your comment
Thanks for your opinion - I'll try your suggestions.
Cheers
Ellemand
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellemand/
Lili
New member
ellemand,
Again, I feel the images here are elegantly understated.
IMHO they are not "gimmicky" at all.
Yes they do look lovely in B&W.
But then they are strong images to begin with and so transcend any vagaries of presentation.
They would be as strong if you'd shot them using cross-processed film using a Holga (albeit that *might* be verging on the gimmick, far prefer B&W in my Holga but that's just me
it is well to experiment with ones palette
^_^
Again, I feel the images here are elegantly understated.
IMHO they are not "gimmicky" at all.
Yes they do look lovely in B&W.
But then they are strong images to begin with and so transcend any vagaries of presentation.
They would be as strong if you'd shot them using cross-processed film using a Holga (albeit that *might* be verging on the gimmick, far prefer B&W in my Holga but that's just me
it is well to experiment with ones palette
^_^
Last edited:
Lili
New member
LOL, Maggie.
Look at MY color work, very saturated, almost garish, so I cannot cast stones
^_^
P
Player
Guest
Ellemand,
A new genre perhaps? "Whack & White."
All kiddin' aside, I like 'em!
A new genre perhaps? "Whack & White."
All kiddin' aside, I like 'em!
gimmick was not my word, but i used it too, so mea culpa! but desaturation is definitely a stylized way to work. i know, i've used it (have one photo i'm working on right now). i love Ellemand's work. i love that he's comfortable enough to play around with it. that is so key for all of us!
my comments were merely for this body of work he displayed. whilst the desaturated look worked quite beautifully, i still the think the b/w was stronger in most cases.... one that he didn't add but reworked was this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellemand/2328045617/ against to the original (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellemand/2287826493/) there is no comparison. the original is absolutely out of this world. if the original wasn't up, however, i'd think the desaturated look was quite stunning.
does this make sense?
my comments were merely for this body of work he displayed. whilst the desaturated look worked quite beautifully, i still the think the b/w was stronger in most cases.... one that he didn't add but reworked was this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellemand/2328045617/ against to the original (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellemand/2287826493/) there is no comparison. the original is absolutely out of this world. if the original wasn't up, however, i'd think the desaturated look was quite stunning.
does this make sense?
thank you! i'm afraid i'm getting quite crotchety and curt as surgery draws nigh and did not want to seem as if i was trashing his work. i'll probably have to ban myself from the forum tomorrowCam,
it does
Lili
New member
E
ellemand
Guest
Hey all of you.
I love when pictures (also mine) can creative af constructiv diskussion - that's what forums like this are for - right?
I'm reading all your comments, and are very happy that you all have an opinion -that's what makes it fun to be here.
And I promise you all - next time I make something different and crazy - you'll be the first to see it :thumbup:
Ellemand
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellemand/
By the way Cam - I've desided, that you can stay here :ROTFL:
I love when pictures (also mine) can creative af constructiv diskussion - that's what forums like this are for - right?
I'm reading all your comments, and are very happy that you all have an opinion -that's what makes it fun to be here.
And I promise you all - next time I make something different and crazy - you'll be the first to see it :thumbup:
Ellemand
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellemand/
By the way Cam - I've desided, that you can stay here :ROTFL:
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Your not going anywhere as long as i have the button control. LOLthank you! i'm afraid i'm getting quite crotchety and curt as surgery draws nigh and did not want to seem as if i was trashing his work. i'll probably have to ban myself from the forum tomorrow
I do hope your surgery is a success and we will think about you. I'm hurting like a SOB today pulled a groan muscle and it was not from having any fun either.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Well said.
M
Mitch Alland
Guest
Cam, what you say makes sense — but I'll also defend what I said about this approach being gimmicky: a photograph is good because it says something; and what is says may be expressed orally or may not be, the latter being the case if it is expressed mainly through form rather than content as in the case of an abstract paining. In Ellemand's case the best of the original photographs make a certain graphic statement in the way the tones and light speak and a mood is created and, for me, none of that message is extended or emphasized by the selective colour approach, which gives the feeling of colorization — if anything the effect is attenuated or almost trivialized, moving towards kitsch. We're getting into aesthetics here, and on that people always have different views.
There is a tendency in such discussions to move towards a consensus but in aesthetics there can be an absolute, although that absolute itself may not be subject to consensus or capable by being grasped through consensus, that is eroded in the process, and which can lead, again to — kitsch. Now, I'll have to think about this last sentence because it contains more philosophical concepts than you can throw a stick at, but that's the way with aesthetics.
—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
M
Mitch Alland
Guest
Get a grip, Maggie: I only said "moving towards kitsch", having thought that we wanted a real discussion rather than political correctness...
—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
kai.e.g.
Member
I don't see selective color being used in these at all - just mild general desaturation (and I think this was confirmed above). It's hard for me to see how decreasing saturation a little can be trending towards kitschiness - I'd have thought that increasing saturation would lead to that attribute! If anything, the slightly muted colours lend many of these shots a sophisticated feel; it's not heavy-handed, and we're not being dazzled with technique by them. I think it's particularly well-suited to the photograph of the guy eating in the diner.
Selective Color is quite a different thing, and can indeed become tiresome and gimmicky if over-used (which means nearly always, because one sees so much of it online these days - only very occasionally used with flair).
Selective Color is quite a different thing, and can indeed become tiresome and gimmicky if over-used (which means nearly always, because one sees so much of it online these days - only very occasionally used with flair).
M
Mitch Alland
Guest
Although it's desaturisation rather than selective colour the effect, to me, is like the latter. Not really saying that all selective colour is bad either; just the effect of desaturisation doesn't result in a photograph that expresses more than the B&Ws posted original, but the contrary.
—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
kai.e.g.
Member
Maybe with faded colours, its truer to say that the photographs have a nostalgic air to them - and perhaps I can see where you're coming from when one considers how often nostalgia is kitsch (maybe even the very definition of kitsch). I don't at all get that feeling with these photographs, though. Whether the B&W originals are better or not is a different question, and in some cases I think the B&W is definitely better: the man in the top hat for sure.
Sepia is another 'look' that invokes nostalgic sentiments - could that be considered heading towards kitsch, too? Sometimes, I think it can be. On the other hand, for some people, anything in black & white, regardless of tone, might seem contrived & retro (somewhat related to that, I've had someone tell me that a perfectly ordinary-looking black & white image was "cool because it looks so retro"; I certainly wasn't thinking "retro" when I made the conversion, which was not sepia or even particularly grainy!)
Sepia is another 'look' that invokes nostalgic sentiments - could that be considered heading towards kitsch, too? Sometimes, I think it can be. On the other hand, for some people, anything in black & white, regardless of tone, might seem contrived & retro (somewhat related to that, I've had someone tell me that a perfectly ordinary-looking black & white image was "cool because it looks so retro"; I certainly wasn't thinking "retro" when I made the conversion, which was not sepia or even particularly grainy!)