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Thread: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

  1. #51
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Very kewl
    It all depends on sensor size and price, and ultimately image quality.
    Speaking of image quality, not looking too good... even allowing for dpreview's approach to sample photography.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Speaking of image quality, not looking too good... even allowing for dpreview's approach to sample photography.
    i disagree with you completely there. the 50mm is stunning. beats the X1, IMO. and, personally (because i prefer shallower depth of field), i also prefer it to any of the micro 4/3rd offerings.

    to each his own, Brian.

    i'm really liking this (much more than i expected to, i might add).

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    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    I agree, Cam. The IQ looks very nice to me after a quick look at DPR's samples. Right now I'm on our older CRT monitor, will have to check them out some more on my iMac.
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Actually this is quite good . This is a 33mm lens wide open . Must be the 24-70 lens. Also ISO 200. Has some nice detail and nice tonal range. Reposted from the Ricoh website
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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    cam, I think I must be completely spoiled by the E-P1 + 20mm f1.7 combination I'm using. Perhaps the images could be sharpened up and the colour improved quite a bit. dpreview samples are rarely flattering to any camera imho.

    There's also the Ricoh user interface to consider - I've never had a Ricoh, but the UI seems to be a massive hit for those who use it?

    I do think the concept is excitingly different - I'm sure that Ricoh have solved some serious challenges with this innovative approach.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Actually this is quite good . This is a 35mm lens wide open . Must be the 24-70 lens. Also ISO 200. Has some nice detail and nice tonal range. Reposted from the Ricoh website
    Certainly the best I've seen so far... just goes to show you should always wait for more flattering samples!

    Cheers

    Brian
    Last edited by Brian Mosley; 10th November 2009 at 04:30.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Actually this is quite good . This is a 33mm lens wide open . Must be the 24-70 lens. Also ISO 200. Has some nice detail and nice tonal range. Reposted from the Ricoh website
    no, Guy, that's from the 50mm -- 33 times crop factor.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Actually this is quite good . This is a 33mm lens wide open . Must be the 24-70 lens. Also ISO 200. Has some nice detail and nice tonal range. Reposted from the Ricoh website
    Guy I believe 33mm is the 50mm equivalent lens cartridge.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Ah darn thanks Cam for pointing that out. Looks damn good
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    It is a interesting concept. One thing is weird though one lens sports a CCD and one a CMOS. I find that very odd indeed for the same camera. On the surface seems like two different looks from the same shoot. Which could be not such a great thing. But I'm all for trying something unique also.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Certainly the best I've seen so far... just goes to show you should always wait for lots of samples!
    here are the Ricoh samples. i was amazed at how much i could do with the last image (woman in the mirror) when playing around with b/w conversion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    cam, I think I must be completely spoiled by the E-P1 + 20mm f1.7 combination I'm using. Perhaps the images could be sharpened up and the colour improved quite a bit. dpreview samples are rarely flattering to any camera imho.

    There's also the Ricoh user interface to consider - I've never had a Ricoh, but the UI seems to be a massive hit for those who use it?
    Brian,

    you know i rarely do colour, so that isn't an issue for me (plus, it's always been one of Oly's best qualities). they do sharpen up beautifully, btw, and i was obviously just playing with the JPEGs.

    i love love love Ricoh's UI and thinks it's one of the best (the Epson R-D1 being my all time fave). whilst you have many initial options, it's very easy to set it and forget it, making for smooth shooting without a lot of menu hunting (which i have seen a lot of on the E-P1).

    i admit i'm biased by using their cameras for a few years, but they really have spoiled me.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    [QUOTE=cam;153904]i disagree with you completely there. the 50mm is stunning. beats the X1, IMO. /QUOTE]

    Very exciting times, and these samples look excellent.

    That X1 lens still looks amazing to me, despite what everybody seems to be saying.

    Having said that. I'd get the ricoh +50mm without sparing a second thought.
    Last edited by sizifo; 10th November 2009 at 05:20.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    What is also so intriguing about this system is not necessarily what it is today (but that is looking pretty sweet) but also what it can be. For instance there is nothing in the spec to say that the lens and cartridge have to be fixed and sealed. For instance there is now a rumor that there will be a m4/3 sensor cartridge with a lens mount (not sealed) to swap lenses or an m mount cartridge for rangefinder lenses. To have options with one very good user interface is indeed an interesting concept.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    If we forget the 50mm macro for a moment, the 24–70 zoom on the smaller sensor might be an improvement over the LX3, a camera I have liked but which is a bit small for my hands.

    Everyone loved the UI of the GR series, so from that POV, and from the POV of pocketability, the 24–70 unit looks very good to me.

    And as someone who uses a number of UIs (presently, the D700, S90, and G1) I definitely like the idea of being able to use one that works really well, can be set up how I like, and can have different lens and sensor characteristics by changing the lens/sensor combo.

    And if the idea takes off, then 40/sensor X and other combinations become more likely. I like it.

    +1 for Terry's comment, too (we must have been posting at the same time!)

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    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    What is also so intriguing about this system is not necessarily what it is today (but that is looking pretty sweet) but also what it can be. For instance there is nothing in the spec to say that the lens and cartridge have to be fixed and sealed. For instance there is now a rumor that there will be a m4/3 sensor cartridge with a lens mount (not sealed) to swap lenses or an m mount cartridge for rangefinder lenses. To have options with one very good user interface is indeed an interesting concept.
    It would all then make perfect sense. Almost has to happen.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    terry

    the issue is that people don't buy something for what it may or may not do sometime in the future. They buy it for what it does now

    If Ricoh dont sell enough of the Version 1 there never will be a version 2.

    Personally if they had one or two additional modules available at launch then maybe I might have a little more faith in the ability of this system get up and running.

    Oh yeah and also half the price of the body... way way over priced for a battery a lcd, some buttons and a bit of processing.

    Obviously it looks like it takes a nice picture... but so do many other cameras

    K

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    I just read about it. What an BRILLIANT concept! Sorta like Hasselblads and other medium format cameras that have a self contained shutter with the lens, but this includes the sensor as well. There are several really intriguing things about this concept.

    One, since the lenses/sensor units are sealed there's little worry about the dust issue. And if the optics of their previous cameras are any indication the lenses will be TOP NOTCH.

    Two, Ricoh has finally, EFFECTIVELY addressed what I've always felt was the weakest aspect in the whole digital age and that is when you bought a camera (or system) you were committed to a sensor and its resolution. (In the film era when you bought a camera like an M6 for example and could keep the equipment or at least the body while Kodak and Fuji and Agfa duked it out in the film department.)

    Thus when the sensor is improved (like the M8) you don't have to toss out legacy equipment when a better sensor came along. Although the costs for each lens/sensor won't be cheap (so far $860 for the 50mm unit).

    I have always yearned for a system where you could buy a camera body and be able to change or improve the sensor (unlike ridiculously exorbitant medium format systems) and Ricoh appears to have finally made that possible. So far a fast 50mm f2.5 with an APSC sized sensor. And a zippy f2.5 zoom with a smaller sensor. (As DPReview put it you trade compactness for quality but you have the option for both.)

    I also like the rugged magnesium body. And a CHOICE of EVF or optical finders. And the 920 kilodot LCD is no slouch either.

    With Ricoh having made ENORMOUS strides in the noise control on their previous small sensor cameras the use of their algorithms on the APS-C size sensor will also be worth looking into as yet a new formidable challenge to mirrorbox-less mFT and APS-C cameras like the GF1, EP-1 and 2, DP-2, X1 and whatever Sony is supposed to announce in a week.

    I'd been considering getting a the GF1 but have concluded since I'd want the EVF anyway I might as well stick with my G1 and the 20mm f1.7 pancake as the unit will be relatively non-descript and compact.

    But THIS concept opens up a whole new ball game. And I'm going to line up to check out this camera.

    Peter
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    It would all then make perfect sense. Almost has to happen.
    there's a wish thread over at DPR about having the Foveon sensor/lens in one of the cartridges... now wouldn't that be grand?

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    What is also so intriguing about this system is not necessarily what it is today (but that is looking pretty sweet) but also what it can be. For instance there is nothing in the spec to say that the lens and cartridge have to be fixed and sealed. For instance there is now a rumor that there will be a m4/3 sensor cartridge with a lens mount (not sealed) to swap lenses or an m mount cartridge for rangefinder lenses. To have options with one very good user interface is indeed an interesting concept.
    Precisely.

    Getting more excited by this by the minute.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    terry

    the issue is that people don't buy something for what it may or may not do sometime in the future. They buy it for what it does now

    If Ricoh dont sell enough of the Version 1 there never will be a version 2.

    Personally if they had one or two additional modules available at launch then maybe I might have a little more faith in the ability of this system get up and running.

    Oh yeah and also half the price of the body... way way over priced for a battery a lcd, some buttons and a bit of processing.

    Obviously it looks like it takes a nice picture... but so do many other cameras

    K
    I completely understand your point of view and it has a lot of validity. For me, this year the tide has turned. I am not a big camera fan. I have my hulking full frame camera that produces beautiful images. However, at heart I really like small compact cameras and for a while we've been going down the path of pink rhinestone versions. I applaud the effort for creativity and innovation.
    To think that this was going to come cheap (not exactly a hallmark of the GR series) was a mistake. What I hope is that perhaps it can be an "open" standard for others to make a cartridge for the camera. Then you would have some interesting products and competition. Yes, all this is nice but you are right you need enough money to get past version 1 into version 2.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    more photo of the GXR...

    http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/n...10_327768.html


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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    [QUOTE=TEBnewyork;153946What I hope is that perhaps it can be an "open" standard for others to make a cartridge for the camera. Then you would have some interesting products and competition. Yes, all this is nice but you are right you need enough money to get past version 1 into version 2.[/QUOTE]

    Totally agree. Which is why I am so excited at the potential that has been revealed here.

    Cheers

    Peter
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by MHC View Post
    thank you for the link!

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Speaking of image quality, not looking too good... even allowing for dpreview's approach to sample photography.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Now that I've looked at the DPR samples on my 24" iMac, I can see why you had the initial reaction you did, Brian. The 50 lens module still looks sweet, but I am not so sure about the 24-72 zoom. Funny though, I do really like the Ricoh colors, they seem very realistic to me.
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    They could also release a second back with a swivel lcd.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    I should have added that I have owned and sold the LX3, GF1, DP-1 and 2... wasn't it Guy who coined the term "gear slut"?

    Point is that all of these had their strengths, all have different interfaces, and different weaknesses—some due to sensor size, some due to focal length limitations. I have no intention of abandoning the pair of D700s that pay the bills (the idea of a 24mm TS lens on the Ricoh body made me smile) but to be able to settle on one pocket-go-every camera is really attractive.

    For me, the 24–72 EFOV zoom is close to perfect (24–90 would be perfect!). The S90 is with me in the Caymans while I get into C1Pro (I have lots of time between workshops here).

    Very interesting times.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Joan View Post
    Now that I've looked at the DPR samples on my 24" iMac, I can see why you had the initial reaction you did, Brian. The 50 lens module still looks sweet, but I am not so sure about the 24-72 zoom. Funny though, I do really like the Ricoh colors, they seem very realistic to me.
    the Zoom is still small sensor (a la GRDIII). the 50 is all i've been seriously looking at.

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    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Hi Cam,

    So, the sensor in the zoom module is still that tiny? I didn't realize that. I got the idea that it was smaller than the one in the 50 module (but not that small) but that does explain the difference between the quality of the samples.

    I really think this has some serious potential, not that I would be able to afford it any time soon (which is probably a good thing )


    Edit: Now that I really stop and think about it, I guess it would HAVE to be that small, considering the size of the lens. Duh!
    Last edited by Joan; 10th November 2009 at 07:11.
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    And as usual the spanish site quesabesde already has a hands on preview up (loads of comparison pictures + video).

    http://www.quesabesde.com/noticias/r...nalisis,1_5814
    Last edited by sizifo; 10th November 2009 at 07:05.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    It sure moved from speculation to the real thing quickly LOL. Very interesting. I've read all available, looked at the Japanese special site--and agree, its a very cool creation. The thing that would veto the original offering for me is the tiny sensor in the 24-72 module. I'm interested in seeing where it goes because the concept is really a different approach for a small cam.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Yep, Diane ... I can't honestly see paying that big a premium to revert back to a small sensor zoom, but OTOH, that darned 50 is fabulous! It sure will be fun to watch this as it grows up.
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hatam View Post
    What would have been really cool is if the sensor and lens were each, independently, interchangable.

    Swap sensors - high resolution vs fast fps, etc.

    Swap lenses, independent of sensor.

    At some point, I'd like to see that type of concept from someone other than RED, at a more consumer price point.
    +1

    Making the sensors and lenses independently swappable would make much more sense. So far, we have a zoom lens married to a P&S sized sensor, and a rather large 50mm attached to an APS-C sensor. Neither look all that appealing to me (i like the 50, but it seems to bulky.)

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    i think they came out with that small sensor zoom to satisfy users who were waiting for the GX300 -- which is not likely to happen. the sensor is slightly bigger than the GX200, but... well, if zoom is your thing, i can see this not being that tempting.

    still, i imagine they will have a zoom with a larger sensor available at a later date -- that's the beauty of this system.

    my interest is in the 50mm (it looks to be most things i hoped the X1 would be).

    however, say at a later date i am off to travel and would really like a zoom for vacation pics. i already have the body and VF for a lens i really love. all i need to buy is a slip-in zoom and voila! talk about space savings -- and, yes, eventually monetarily as well.

    there have been times (again, it only seems to be holidays) where i actually did desire a zoom -- but not enough to go out and buy a new camera... a new cartridge, though? hmmm. i possibly would have...

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    For me, (with my wretched bad back and aversion to weight) a zoom is simply the most practical thing. I have a very small budget for photography, so I get the most bang for my buck with it. So, right now, all I have for my G1 is the 14-140 and the 20. Love the results from the 20, but couldn't live with only that. When my ship comes in (read: win the lotto) I will have the M9 and several choice lenses! LOL
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    I think that the hypothetical idea of a sensor module with a Leica M lens mount could well be a much better solution than the current m4/3 cameras, if the sensor has offset micro-lenses like the M8/9 sensors.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Having read far to many posts on various forums and had time to ponder I'm beginning to think Ricoh have been very clever in marketing and PR terms if nothing else. They have basically launched a 50mm e prime large sensor compact onto the market (forget the 24-70, that is just a GX200 increment) and gained huge publicity for it. Without the interchangeable modular system everyone would have been very happy but thought it a little boring. The only really big mistake I think is not to have launched it solely as a kit with the 50mm e to start with. The body and add ons should have followed shortly after with the body being priced very low.
    Then comes the really good bit. As we all know Ricoh is is the only camera manufacturer who really does listen to is customers and makes the improvements that they ask for on a regular incremental basis. It is their unique place in the market. They have just launched a system which allows them endless possibilities to rapidly respond to our wishes. Brilliant!

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    Thumbs up Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Joan View Post
    For me, I have a very small budget for photography, so I get the most bang for my buck with it.When my ship comes in (read: win the lotto) I will have the M9 and several choice lenses! LOL
    I concur with Joan who has just described my contented forever camera/lens kit.

  38. #88
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Hi,

    I had the problem that I dislike my DSLR for all reasons that make a DSLR a DSLR: bulky, noisy, hard to use autofocus and practically speaking, nearly only zooms available. So I got myself an LX3 and I'm loving it to bits.

    What the GXR does, is get rid of several of my problems while keeping the same UI. I can have a camera that is nearly a GX200 and use it as a pocketable camera (slightly bigger than the LX3). Or, when doing serious portrait work, I can swap out the zoom for the 50mm equiv and do my thing, keeping the same user interface. And frankly, the samples of the 50mm look incredible. It's a shame it's not at least an f2.0, because the f2.5's DOF will be equivalent to a 50/f3.5 on a film camera, which means you'd better have the background rather far away. But it is very promising and who knows what other combos they'll come up with.

    As for the Leica or other lens mount modules: Simon Joinston on DPReview already said that Ricoh has shown very little interest in that. I know the first rumours were that they might be interested, but Simon clearly said that's not what they heard. As for me, a mount module could be a nice toy, but not really what I need. I like the camera as it is and I'm looking forward to what comes next !


    Peter.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by D upton-Hackett. View Post
    I concur with Joan who has just described my contented forever camera/lens kit.
    Derek, I fear there is no such thing.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Derek, I fear there is no such thing.
    You maybe right but one can dream......

    Derek.

  41. #91
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    More samples. These look rather good in my book.

    http://www.dcfever.com/cameras/samples.php

  42. #92
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Looking at those I think I may be selling a couple of my Canon lenses in the very near future.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    they are pretty damned stunning...

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    More samples. These look rather good in my book.

    http://www.dcfever.com/cameras/samples.php
    they have a similar look and feel to the new GRD3, which is really great!

  45. #95
    Senior Member dhsimmonds's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Jorgen,

    These are absolutely stunning! Compare these with the Leica X1 at many more bucks and a fixed lens into the bargain! A skilled photographer too...would like to see some of his images taken with the smaller sensor/ 24-70 combo.

    Thanks for posting.....my D-Lux-4 might not be around for much longer!
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com

  46. #96
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Someone has posted some test images on Flickr. They look pretty bad for some reason. Looking at her other images her style does seem to be to over expose a bit so maybe it is because of that? There is no EXIF data on them though so I'm not convinced that they are genuine.

    http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=gxr&w=26809685%40N04

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    there *is* Exif data if you click on more properties.

    they are obviously JPEGs, straight out of the camera, no tweaking (versus the images put up on the Ricoh site). she's obviously adjusting to the new camera... (that said, many of her images do look over exposed...)

  48. #98
    Senior Member pollobarca's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    I think she will get used to the camera.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nakisuke/4105380567/

    is the last one.

    Some more here, this lady seems to have a bit more control on the camera

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/eries/

    Some units that look interesting including " Fiber scope unit" . Professional uses of this system will
    be what makes it work money wise. Good news for the photographer.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/mawari/4105516966/
    Last edited by pollobarca; 18th November 2009 at 03:06.
    "I ruined my health by drinking to everyone else's." Brendan Behan
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pollobarca/

  49. #99
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    One thing this demonstrates is the importance of marketing. If these were the first available images, the GRX would be getting a rough ride here. The first images from the X1 from dpreview, with blown highlights and one example of bad bokeh, caused the camera to get dissed to oblivion. I imagine the perception of the X1 would be quite different if leica published some images first, or if the first exposure was via sein reid or luminous landscape rather than dpreview.

    I think you can make a judgment form these technically bad images, if you manage to concentrate no the properly exposed area, take in they are jpegs etc. (though this can be difficult).

  50. #100
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    there *is* Exif data if you click on more properties.

    they are obviously JPEGs, straight out of the camera, no tweaking (versus the images put up on the Ricoh site). she's obviously adjusting to the new camera... (that said, many of her images do look over exposed...)
    That's interesting. The more properties option wasn't available to m earlier.

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