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Thread: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

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    Senior Member kweide's Avatar
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    Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Interessting but is it true ??? Or just a well made fake ??

    http://earthrisephotography.wordpres.../09/ricoh-gxr/
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    even if a fake, it's a great idea!

    thanks.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    If you Google 'Ricoh GXR' you'll get lots of results -- and Wouter has this video on his blog.

    Which? is a UK consumer testing organisation -- I don't think this is fake.
    Slįinte

    Robert.

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    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    think its an interesting idea... but kinda doomed - too proprietary - i cant imagine 3rd parties producing devices for this.... can't imagine Ricoh getting enough traction in the market to justify producing many additional modules

    It is too expensive - plus I don't actually see the advantage it offers - what they seem to be offering is a module that is a GX200 and a module with a 1.5 crop CCD and fixed 50mm lens

    why not just sell a GX200 and a model with the 1.5 crop sensor.

    Just my thoughts

    K

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    i still think this is kind of cool...

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    It's interesting and innovative, but I'm not sure it's practical. If each new lens (if they are made available) comes with its own sensor then count me out. My GRD3 is good enough.

    The flexibility of the component concept is great, and would allow for growth and easier upgrades, but it's not componentized enough. The sensor and lens should be separate for this to really work.

    But still, I will wait for more clarity on this new camera with great interest.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    If you think about it

    For a long zoom to stay small you need a small sensor
    For a pancake lens you can keep it small with a fast lens

    This allows you to optimize the sensor size with the intended use and still have one camera

    Don't know about pricing...but it could be a very interesting concept for someone who really values space and can handle a smaller sensor for outdoor landscapes with lots of pixels and a long zoom but wants high quality fast lens with shallow DOF for their low light work.

    I'm intrigued.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Me too. Pretty interesting idea here
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Changing or upgrading sensors has been bandied about for a number of years. This looks like the first foray into that possibility--a bit of, it appears, thinking outside the box. I don't know how practical it is--and I don't expect I'm interested at this point, but I'll certainly follow it.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Having to buy a new sensor with each lens?
    sounds like they're going to have to cheapskate on both the processor and the sensor to stop it being unreasonably expensive.

    I was hoping for something exciting with pentax primes and an APS-C sensor. Sounds like just another gimmick to me.

    erm . .. am I being grumpy?

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    erm . .. am I being grumpy?
    you are!

    the other grump is my living room.

    a pox on both of you!

    (you know i'm saying this with all affection)

    i love that a company is being daring
    Last edited by cam; 9th November 2009 at 12:30.

  12. #12
    D upton-Hackett.
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    As much as i like Ricoh this is different and going way out on a limb i wish them the best if it's true.

    On a personal note it's more to carry so not really compact and very expensive.
    It makes one wonder what Sigma next compact will be, now that will be interesting!

    Derek.

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    Senior Member pollobarca's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Well, I saw the idea of selling different sensors for different jobs a couple of years ago.
    I was thinking more in terms of different image qualities. Not matching them to the lens
    optical qualities. But this is really great! When you think about it the sensors must be pretty cheap anyway now. Not too clear on the different movie qualities, but I dont care much for video. Be Nice to see a shfting sensor to make a "shift lens".
    About 1600 gbp for 2 lenses, body with flash. Pretty much matches the ep2.
    I suppose the EVF will be another 200. Looks as solid as a brick. Not cheap but I always think what film used to cost and this is roughly 120 rolls of 35mm film developed and printed. A bargain by comparison sir!
    Now to convince my good lady that the family needs a new camera....

    Been thinking , the man in the video says "new bodies" so Architects bodies, police bodies (speed traps etc)
    underwater bodies, lenses on cables or with wireless attachments. There's a lot of flexibility here.
    Last edited by pollobarca; 9th November 2009 at 12:53.
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    Subscriber Member Jonathon Delacour's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    think its an interesting idea... but kinda doomed - too proprietary - i cant imagine 3rd parties producing devices for this.... can't imagine Ricoh getting enough traction in the market to justify producing many additional modules

    It is too expensive - plus I don't actually see the advantage it offers - what they seem to be offering is a module that is a GX200 and a module with a 1.5 crop CCD and fixed 50mm lens

    why not just sell a GX200 and a model with the 1.5 crop sensor.

    Just my thoughts

    K
    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Having to buy a new sensor with each lens?
    sounds like they're going to have to cheapskate on both the processor and the sensor to stop it being unreasonably expensive.

    I was hoping for something exciting with pentax primes and an APS-C sensor. Sounds like just another gimmick to me.

    erm . .. am I being grumpy?
    Not grumpy at all. Simply realistic. As Kevin said, too proprietary and too expensive. My previous high hopes have been dashed.

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    you are!

    the other grump is my living room.

    a pox on both of you! i love that a company is being daring
    Then a pox on me too, I guess.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    See nothing here to make me want to switch from my X1 order or my GR-DIII.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Delacour View Post
    Then a pox on me too, I guess.
    i don't know you well enough to be so rude to you

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    See nothing here to make me want to switch from my X1 order or my GR-DIII.
    i disagree, at least on the X1 front. i see much more of what i'm looking for here, though i'll obviously not for sure until i see the images.

    perhaps i am in the minority, but i'm intrigued.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Interesting that quite a few people will buy the DP1 and DP2 or have said they would buy a 40mm equivalent GRD to go with the 28mm version. For those people this idea is great.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Interesting concept. Lets see if there is any improvement over existing systems before we draw any conclusions. I hope that the pricing for the lenses is not prohibitively expensive considering the sensor, and associated electronics built into each lens.

    As usual, we should wait for some comprehensive tests.

    Martin

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    Senior Member pollobarca's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Which have pulled the video! Bet someone got his end kicked for this..
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  20. #20
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    I am intrigued, but agree with Kevin that this is too much a closed system. I wouldn't be surprised if the zoom lens comes with the GRDIII CCD sensor, while the 50 macro lens comes with an APS-C sized CMOS sensor. And I had serious hopes for faster prime lenses. Maybe more to come later, but the success of this systems fully depends on Ricoh's commitment and selling numbers. Very tricky in my opinion when you consider that they sell most cameras in Japan and still are less available anywhere else.

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    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Could it form a new standard perhaps, with other manufacturers joining in?
    I would be over the moon to get a foveon sensor in one of the lenses!
    Last edited by Will; 9th November 2009 at 14:22.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Very kewl
    It all depends on sensor size and price, and ultimately image quality. It might be a dead end, but a fun dead end. Kudos to Ricoh for their courage.

    It's interesting to see that nobody else have come up with a competitor to m4/3 yet, until this. That might mean that m4/3 is a hard nut to crunch for Canikon et al., and that thinking "out of the box" is in fact the easiest way around the challenge.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Of course somebody saved the movie. Here it is:

    http://dslr-links.blogspot.com/2009/...xr-camera.html

    It looks like Ricoh have done their homework. This is a rather intriguing camera, and if it's solidly built, it's rather interesting for travel, particularly if they come up with telephoto and wide option without too much delay.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This is a rather intriguing camera, and if it's solidly built, it's rather interesting for travel, particularly if they come up with telephoto and wide option without too much delay.
    we've been wondering what that rather long tube is on the table in the video... it looks like an extra-long version of the 40mm converter for the GRD/GRDII. perhaps a teleconverter for the 50mm?

    (nothing like starting rumours )

    they will have to have a wide angle at some point -- Ricoh is known for their 28mm -- but i'm don't think they want to step on sales of the GRDIII at this point.

    maybe after Christmas?

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    Subscriber Member Jonathon Delacour's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Interesting that quite a few people will buy the DP1 and DP2 or have said they would buy a 40mm equivalent GRD to go with the 28mm version. For those people this idea is great.
    But, from what we've seen so far, Ricoh doesn't appear to be offering this. Here's hoping because, dead-end system or not, I would buy a 40mm-e lens coupled with an APS-C sensor in an instant, even if the camera was somewhat larger than a GRD.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    you are!

    the other grump is my living room.

    a pox on both of you!

    (you know i'm saying this with all affection)

    i love that a company is being daring
    Well, I'll drink to that (hic). Perhaps there's more to it than meets the eye. . . . or perhaps there isn't

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, I'll drink to that (hic). Perhaps there's more to it than meets the eye. . . . or perhaps there isn't
    hell, i'll drink to anything -- CHEERS!

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Delacour View Post
    But, from what we've seen so far, Ricoh doesn't appear to be offering this. Here's hoping because, dead-end system or not, I would buy a 40mm-e lens coupled with an APS-C sensor in an instant, even if the camera was somewhat larger than a GRD.
    i was hoping for the 40mm as well. i've grown kind of fond of it as i've glued the conversion lens to my GRD... i was really hoping Ricoh would stick with it.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Interesting. And as sensor technology will continue to improve, in a few years there will be tons of obsolete Ricoh lenses around............

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    50mm does seem odd (for Ricoh) since the GRD converters were 21 and 40. The m4/3 pancakes are 35 and 40mm.

    Do we know the aperture of the supposed 50mm?

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    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    The new ricoh may be clever and intriguing.. but I am at a loss to see where this fits in the market.

    Its a solution looking for a problem

    If i want a small camera with a zoom on a small sensor there are endless options available today including some from Ricoh

    If I want a larger sensor and compact size then there are solutions from olympus, panasonic, sigma and even leica

    Sigma and leica have gone the fixed lens route, while the micro 4/3 offers the interchangeable lens... and the ability to mine 50 years of lens manufacture to add a variety of focal lengths as well as enjoying compact modern zoom and moderate wide angle lenses.

    This new ricoh once again proves that there is no shortcut at this point with current technology to the ideal of the compact digital camera that offers all of what was offered by old film cameras. The M9 is perhaps the only one that has solved this ... but at a considerable price.

    we are not going to get 1.4 lenses... because the mass market doesn't need them... they have given us more ISO instead... I reckon most sub f2 lenses made in the past - with the possible exception of leica and zeiss were made for bragging rights and to make the SLR viewfinder brighter. The whole concept of bokeh was not something that i can't recall being actively discussed until a couple of years ago.

    Much as i love for ricoh to succeed with this i don't see it happening. Its too expensive for the mass market and delivers too little for the enthusiast

    just my thoughts... your mileage may vary

    K

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewteee View Post
    50mm does seem odd (for Ricoh) since the GRD converters were 21 and 40. The m4/3 pancakes are 35 and 40mm.

    Do we know the aperture of the supposed 50mm?
    rumoured to be f/2.5.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    The new ricoh may be clever and intriguing.. but I am at a loss to see where this fits in the market.

    Its a solution looking for a problem

    and that's a ransom looking for a hostage!

    On the other hand, I agree with you completely . . . why would you?

    Just this guy you know

  34. #34
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    I wonder if they might come out with a sensor pack lens mount?

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    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    I have no idea if this will be a boom or bust for Ricoh, but it seems like a very interesting concept to me. I hope it turns out well!
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    will

    again... where is the advantage?... one of the selling points seems to be the sealed/dust free aspect. I am pretty sure there will be other 1.5 crop sensor small body solutions in the near future

    K

  37. #37
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Looks very cool. I think it's way too early to say much more than:

    >Very kewl
    >It all depends on sensor size and price, and ultimately image quality. It >might be a dead end, but a fun dead end. Kudos to Ricoh for their courage.

    People will put aside all kinds of seemingly logical arguments that come up in threads like this one if the system does 1 or 2 things excellently, rather many things ok. And this is without doubt a very original idea that can give rise to all kinds of interesting possibilities - all based on the already prefect UI.

    Seems like a computer design concept, possibly ahead of its time for digital cameras. But for the moment it will be the first camera on the market that allows one to interchange *sensors* of different dimensions.

    Definitely very intrigued.

  38. #38
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    I understand RED. I don't understand this.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    ...The whole concept of bokeh was not something that i can't recall being actively discussed until a couple of years ago...
    Not according to the Wikipedia entry on bokeh:
    The English spelling bokeh was popularized in 1997 in Photo Techniques magazine, when Mike Johnston, the editor at the time, commissioned three papers on the topic for the March/April 1997 issue; he altered the spelling to suggest the correct pronunciation to English speakers, saying "it is properly pronounced with bo as in bone and ke as in Kenneth, with equal stress on either syllable". Bokeh replaced the previous spelling boke that had been in use at least since 1996, when Merklinger had also suggested "or Bokeh if you prefer."
    One of the articles that Mike Johnston commissioned (and published in 1997) is available online at Luminous Landscape: Understanding Boke by Harold M. Merklinger.

    Mike Johnston's spelling ("bokeh") is a much better match to the Japanese pronunciation than "boke" (as in "Coke") but the first syllable is not pronounced "bo" as in "bone"; rather -- because the "bo" sound in Japanese is short and sharp -- it's pronounced like the "bo" in "box".

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    DP Review has a preview now available.

    Should I post a link in small sensor cameras, or somewhere else -- or both?
    Slįinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    think its an interesting idea... but kinda doomed - too proprietary - i cant imagine 3rd parties producing devices for this.... can't imagine Ricoh getting enough traction in the market to justify producing many additional modules

    It is too expensive - plus I don't actually see the advantage it offers - what they seem to be offering is a module that is a GX200 and a module with a 1.5 crop CCD and fixed 50mm lens

    why not just sell a GX200 and a model with the 1.5 crop sensor.

    Just my thoughts

    K
    Doomed is the word.

    DOA.

  42. #42
    Senior Member pollobarca's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I wonder if they might come out with a sensor pack lens mount?
    Will, thats where it will win. Buy a compact and a lens mount (with sensor and perhaps additional circuitry) for your "legacy" lenses or 4/3 or whatever.

    Underwater case with built in lens and sensor ( i can just sea&sea jumping at this) and all you do is slot in the body. Nikonos replacement.

    Rigging up loads of lens's and sensors with wireless and you can do some interesting things on one body.Stereo lens's, panoramas .

    A kite with built in lens ( kite aerial photography).

    the mount can be anything, all you need is a receiver cartridge on the body.
    Flexibility is the big thing here.( flexible wallets too)

    Finally some manufacturer is using digital to make new cameras, not keep on with the old.
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  43. #43
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    There are some samples on Ricoh's english site here
    http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gxr/sampleimage.html

    I would think any bokeh critic would have to be pretty happy with this sample.. http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gxr/img/sample_02.jpg

  44. #44
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    I would think any bokeh critic would have to be pretty happy with this sample.. http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gxr/img/sample_02.jpg[/QUOTE]

    I had a play with that image and it looks very promising to me.

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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    along with the 50mm looking quite nice, there is this:

    The camera system is in itself interesting enough, but the potential for add-on elements and more developments make GXR very exciting. There is no lens mount obviously, but on questioning Mr Kazunobu Saiki, general manager for Ricoh's global camera division, seemed to acknowledge that a sensor unit fitted with a mount receptive to M and L rangefinder lenses would be a positive addition to the system. Those with good memories will recall that Ricoh had the 28mm f/2.8 and 21mm f/3.5 lenses from its film GR series of compact cameras launched as limited-edition screw-thread L models many years ago. I don't suppose the possibility of making its new system directly attractive to Leica and Voigtländer users has passed the company by. Neither Saiki nor Katagiri would be drawn on when this type of unit might become available, but in previous talks Saiki has agreed that an important element in the success of the Micro Four Thirds system is its ability to tap into existing lens systems via adapters. This type of strategy ensures a new system does not require a complete reinvestment for photographer to take it up.
    There will be more lens/sensor units released in the second quarter of 2010.

  46. #46
    Senior Member pollobarca's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Well it takes the wide angle adapter (using a new tube HA-3 more expense...) and has IS in the 24-72 lens. This looks like a very good alternative option to Panasonic and Olympus cameras. The GF1 flash- will it work with the GX100?
    BTW the lens's are called "camera unit".
    Definitely this camera system is on my list.
    "I ruined my health by drinking to everyone else's." Brendan Behan
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    Subscriber Member Jonathon Delacour's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    There are some samples on Ricoh's english site here
    http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gxr/sampleimage.html

    I would think any bokeh critic would have to be pretty happy with this sample.. http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gxr/img/sample_02.jpg
    Absolutely! That's Rokkor 58/1.2 quality bokeh.

    sample 5... http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gxr/img/sample_05.jpg suggests that the 50mm-e lens not only has excellent bokeh, it's sharp as well.

    I just wish Ricoh hadn't chosen this unnecessarily expensive "lens+sensor unit" approach. The 50mm-e samples indicate that they can build a relatively small APS-C sensor compact with interchangeable lenses that yields excellent quality images.

    Here's hoping they do offer a sensor pack lens mount. That plus a 25mm Pen F lens might be a sweet combination. I'd written this camera off when I first saw the specs but now I'm not so sure.

  48. #48
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    If you think of how many cameras go (to) quickly down the drain because the sensors are running out of date so fast, then the whole idea of changing sensors so easy is a great idea. But please let us be able to use our old lenses.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    What would have been really cool is if the sensor and lens were each, independently, interchangable.

    Swap sensors - high resolution vs fast fps, etc.

    Swap lenses, independent of sensor.

    At some point, I'd like to see that type of concept from someone other than RED, at a more consumer price point.
    Mike Hatam
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    Re: Ricoh GXR, did you see this ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hatam View Post
    What would have been really cool is if the sensor and lens were each, independently, interchangable.

    Swap sensors - high resolution vs fast fps, etc.

    Swap lenses, independent of sensor.

    At some point, I'd like to see that type of concept from someone other than RED, at a more consumer price point.
    the Ricoh system makes this possible... whether they do it or not, well, that's another story.

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