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Thread: New Sigma DP1

  1. #1
    Senior Member DavidE's Avatar
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    New Sigma DP1

    Got my hands on a Sigma DP1 today. (I know, it isn't really a small sensor camera -- just a small-size camera.)

    Isn't your first image supposed to be a cat or dog photo? This is what happens when you ask a dog to say "cheese."


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    Re: New Sigma DP1


    What a great photo - more so if it really is the first, but you've done a grand job.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    LOL, great shot David

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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    That looks fabulous! Fun doggie, too!!!

    Man, I may have to get me a DP-1.

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    So.......love to know what are your first impressions of the DP1 ?
    Cheers! helen
    Last edited by helenhill; 25th March 2008 at 17:20.

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    Senior Member DavidE's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    It was actually the 19th photo, so technically it's one of the first.

    Melvin -- the dog -- was nibbling on the grass. As he nibbled, he would raise his head to chew. I grabbed some shots in the hope that one might turn out OK.

    The DPI is quite slow when shooting RAW. Currently there's no RAW support except with Signa's software, so I used it to export a TIFF file.

  7. #7
    Senior Member DavidE's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Helen,

    I mostly like the images it produces. They seem to have a slight reddish cast (probably a white balance issue, though I wasn't having a lot of luck correcting it with the limited toolset in the Sigma software). Not as well constructed or nearly as manual-mode friendly as my GRD2. What I really want is for Ricoh to release a big sensor GRD.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    That is a great shot. Looks like the dog is about to chew your leg off though.

    I swear this is turning into a pet forum. You guy's crack me up

    Okay i rarely do this but here is Drake. Not shot with a Sigma but from one of those dark side camera's with a 105 macro wide open. Not his best pose but he was feeling pretty lonely seeing all these pet shots
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  9. #9
    bartlebooth
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Hi, this is my first post on this forum - I've been reading it for a while but felt the need to weigh in on this since the DP1 is so new. In my opinion, Sigma has leapfrogged the competition with this camera - the images it produces are simply stunning. Incredible detail and sharpness at 100% crop, extremely wide dynamic range (almost no blown highlights in one week of shooting in bright daylight), and beautiful colors that contribute to a much more film-like look. This is definitely the compact I've been waiting for as a carry everywhere camera (I also shoot with film Leicas and M8 and like how the DP1 can be set for a very 'rangefinder-like' style of shooting). Previously I've used a GRD and then GRD II for this (both of which are excellent cameras) but the DP1 image quality is, in my opinion, in another league.

    Steve

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kornucopia/
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    Senior Member DavidE's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by bartlebooth View Post
    Incredible detail and sharpness at 100% crop, extremely wide dynamic range (almost no blown highlights in one week of shooting in bright daylight), and beautiful colors that contribute to a much more film-like look.
    Have you seen a slight reddish tint with your DP1 photos? I was able to get some shots off only in the late afternoon (the camera just arrived). I'm hoping the reddish tint is a result of the late hour and not a defective camera.

    I'm finding the RAW DP1 photos hold up very well to processing. There's a lot of information embedded in those files.

  11. #11
    bartlebooth
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    David, I haven't noticed any reddish cast (also haven't heard it mentioned at all over on the Sigma forum) so maybe it just was the time of day. I agree with you about the RAW files, there is alot of info retained, especially in the highlights. You know, I never payed much attention to Foveon technology before because I knew I didn't want to go the DSLR route but I'm quickly becoming a convert.

  12. #12
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Can DP-1 files only be processed with Sigma software? No Aperture, no Lightroom, no ACR, etc...?

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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    David, that dog cracks me up. There's something kind of Stephen King about it. Cool shot.

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    Senior Member DavidE's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Can DP-1 files only be processed with Sigma software? No Aperture, no Lightroom, no ACR, etc...?
    Maggie,

    It usually takes a few months for the software companies to add a new RAW format. Each camera's RAW format is different enough that support has to be added for each camera. The DP1 format isn't quite the same as the SD14. And the Canon 40D format isn't quite the same as the previous 30D. There always seems to be a lag.

    Adobe's DNG RAW format was an attempt to have a common, open standard. Without a standard like DNG, there's a chance some RAW formats may not be supported in the future. That could be a concern for a camera that doesn't sell well or a manufacturer that goes out of business.

  15. #15
    wbrandsma
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Wonderful first photo with the DP1! I hope you enjoy your new camera more than the dog being caught on camera?

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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidE View Post
    Maggie,

    It usually takes a few months for the software companies to add a new RAW format. Each camera's RAW format is different enough that support has to be added for each camera. The DP1 format isn't quite the same as the SD14. And the Canon 40D format isn't quite the same as the previous 30D. There always seems to be a lag.

    Adobe's DNG RAW format was an attempt to have a common, open standard. Without a standard like DNG, there's a chance some RAW formats may not be supported in the future. That could be a concern for a camera that doesn't sell well or a manufacturer that goes out of business.
    More succinctly, and to answer my question; "yes."

    I'm aware of the time lag between camera introduction and the adoption of RAW files by software vendors. Perhaps I should have added a "yet" to the end of my original question, so you wouldn't have had to type the obvious. I can see where my imprecision of language would lead you to believe that I am an ignoramus. My apologies.

  17. #17
    Senior Member DavidE's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    I can see where my imprecision of language would lead you to believe that I am an ignoramus. My apologies.
    No apologies needed. I should have remembered that most posters here -- including yourself -- would know this already. That's what I like about this place. I just have to remember not to fall into one-size-fits-all, generic talking mode.

  18. #18
    Senior Member DavidE's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    David, that dog cracks me up. There's something kind of Stephen King about it. Cool shot.
    Though you wouldn't know it from the picture, he's a gentle little dog. Maybe he was tapping into his inner Rottweiler.

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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Great shot David. Makes me miss my dog.

    I'm curious to see more shots from this camera. Of course I will have to wait until the dog stops mauling your leg.





    jeff

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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    More succinctly, and to answer my question; "yes."

    I'm aware of the time lag between camera introduction and the adoption of RAW files by software vendors. Perhaps I should have added a "yet" to the end of my original question, so you wouldn't have had to type the obvious. I can see where my imprecision of language would lead you to believe that I am an ignoramus. My apologies.
    Maggie,
    I don't know if the foveon sensor will actually force the you to always use Sigma software. I haven't followed the SD14 closely enough but I thought it was different enough that it isn't just a simple time delay for LR, ACR etc. to add the processing.

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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    The Foveon sensor produces three signals, each containing different mixtures of R, G, and B. The amount of admixture expected is known, at least informally. David Coffin's DCRAW package can separate them, so third party software which uses DCRAW under the covers can handle a Foveon sensor. Bigger companies, such as Adobe and Phase One, which write clean room code, or for reasons of quality will only support cameras that they have written their own filters for, are slower to support Sigma's cameras.

    scott

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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Terry (and Maggie)

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Maggie,
    I don't know if the foveon sensor will actually force the you to always use Sigma software. I haven't followed the SD14 closely enough but I thought it was different enough that it isn't just a simple time delay for LR, ACR etc. to add the processing.
    I think this is probably the biggest gotcha with Fovean - Apple don't support any Fovean cameras (and I wouldn't bet money that they will either). If you can convert to DNG, then that would be okay as a storage media (which Aperture and Lightroom would then read). The idea of having a nice little carry around pocket camera and having to use Sigma software to convert to .TIFF files does not fill me with enthusiasm!

    Just this guy you know

  23. #23
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    David; you stated the camera is not as well made as the GRD series and the controls are not so good.
    Could you elaborate a bit?
    How do the controls compare to say a Finepix F30?

  24. #24
    Senior Member DavidE's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Lili,

    I've been spoiled by the GRD2, which I think is an exceptionally well-constructed camera. I also love that I can set up most of the buttons and dials for manual settings.

    The DPI feels solid (not fragile), but it doesn't sit as well in my hand. There's no raised grip in the front, as there is with the GRD2. There's no MY1 and MY2 equivalent. There's no Adj button I can press to quickly adjust my four favorite settings. I have to go into the menus to change the ISO (unless I'm missing something -- I haven't had a chance to read through the manual). Both my GRD2 and 40D let me access the ISO from outside the menus. I'm gonna miss that.

    The controls on the back are raised more than the controls on the GRD2. The DP1 controls are probably just as strong, but it gives the impression (along with the boxlike shape and clunky grip), that the DP1 resembles a solidly built $400 point-and-shoot rather than a solidly built $800 DSLR.

    I'm not familiar with the controls on the Finepix F30, so I couldn't compare the two cameras.

    I shouldn't have stated (or implied) that it is poorly constructed -- only that in comparison to the exceptional GRD2, Sigma missed an opportunity to match the excellent image quality with an equally well-designed camera body and interface.

    It's a question of less-than-optimal design rather than falls-apart-if-you-drop-it construction.
    Last edited by DavidE; 26th March 2008 at 07:14.

  25. #25
    bartlebooth
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    I would say build quality of the DP1 is similar to Ricoh, they are both metal bodies that feel solid in the hand, no wobbly parts,etc. I would agree Ricoh's ergonomics are slightly better with a better grip and I do miss the adj lever on the back. However, this is offset by the manual focus wheel (with distance markings right on it) which is a big improvement over using up and down arrows to change focus. Also I find changing exposure on Sigma slightly easier than with GRD especially when using the optical VF (all exposure settings displayed at first press). So to me, in usability etc. its a mixed bag, each camera has advantages in some areas but both are very competent. But in IQ, I will say again the DP1 RAW files are simply amazing, as good as those I get from my M8, which is pretty incredible for such a compact camera.

  26. #26
    Senior Member DavidE's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by bartlebooth View Post
    in IQ, I will say again the DP1 RAW files are simply amazing, as good as those I get from my M8, which is pretty incredible for such a compact camera.
    I've never shot with an M8 (I did hold one at PMA last month). I can say from just the 20 or so shots I've taken so far with the DP1, the image quality is as good as my 40D equipped with Canon's 50mm f1.4 prime lens.

    It was interesting to read your experiences with the controls, since you've had it for a week. Are you gripping it front-and-back on the areas with the raised dots? That doesn't feel very secure with my right hand. Have you found a better way to hold it?

  27. #27
    bartlebooth
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    yeah, I grip it with my right hand but also out of habit use my left hand to steady it (hold the bottom left if using OVF or top & bottom left if using lcd).I agree just using one hand is a bit awkward because of the button placement.

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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    David and Bartlebooth,
    Thanks so much for detailed information.
    How are the JPEGs?
    I am a complete NOOB to PP

  29. #29
    Senior Member DavidE's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    So far I've only shot RAW. There isn't the option, as there is with the GRD2, to shoot both RAW and JPG at the same time. Maybe they'll add that through firmware.

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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidE View Post
    So far I've only shot RAW. There isn't the option, as there is with the GRD2, to shoot both RAW and JPG at the same time. Maybe they'll add that through firmware.
    HI David
    Do you know, can you use the Adobe DNG converter to convert the RAW files to DNG?

    Just this guy you know

  31. #31
    SimonL
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI David
    Do you know, can you use the Adobe DNG converter to convert the RAW files to DNG?
    The Sigma has a Foveon file format initially. The software that comes with the camera is the only one that will currently convert it.

    Adobe took about 2 months to introduce an ACR version for the Sigma SD14.

    I seem to remember that the Sigma software is rather better for 'import' sharpening rather than ACR.

    HTH

  32. #32
    Senior Member DavidE's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Jono,

    I just downloaded and installed the current version (3.5). It loads the DP1's .X3F files, but gives an error when you try to convert them.

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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Simon, David
    Thanks for that - I understand about the file structure - just wasn't sure how long it would take Adobe to get their act together.

    I'm rather in favour of converting RAW files from less common formats to DNG for storage as it's even possible that they'll be readable in a few years time!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonL View Post
    I seem to remember that the Sigma software is rather better for 'import' sharpening rather than ACR.

    HTH
    Was that a while ago? The current ACR capture or import sharpening is very good IMO and fairly straightforward to get the best out of. The only time I go to PK for capture sharpening is when I want a healthy dose of noise reduction on the file.

    Thomas

  35. #35
    asabet
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    RAW files from the SD14, which has the same sensor as the DP1, are supported by ACR/Lightroom, Raw Developer (Mac only), and Sigma Photo Pro. I suspect that the DP1 files will work with at least these in time. Given that the DP1 will likely outsell all Sigma DSLRs put together, I think we are likely to see broader support for its RAW files. Apple has been very slow to add support for new cameras in Aperture, but I think it is likely that they too will support the DP1 if it sells well enough.

  36. #36
    Senior Member DavidE's Avatar
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    Re: New Sigma DP1

    In case anyone is interested, here's a link to the DP1 user manual: http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english...alogue/use.htm. A little light reading before bedtime?

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