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Thread: surreptitious shooting

  1. #51
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Per,

    Many thanks for clarifying your post.

    No offense taken.

    I have been thinking about why I showed the man the picture I had taken, which I wouldn't always do. Was it because I was pleased with the image and wanted to show it off, or maybe I wanted to make sure no onlookers thought I was being underhand? Probably a bit of both.

  2. #52
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    As regards Week's...manifesto.
    Hmmm...there were a few useful points in it.
    He is entitled certainly to his views on equipment and usage thereof; what works for him is what it is; his opinion
    But on the whole I take anyone or anything that's defined by what it is NOT to be suspect.
    One item there rather alarmed me, on the level of the up-skirt-shooting-creature in Per's post. Weeks says he spent 40 minutes following an individual, on the street, at night.
    I think that goes well beyond Street-Shooting and far, far, far into Stalkerazzi territory.
    Last edited by Lili; 30th March 2008 at 06:03.

  3. #53
    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    I might be simplistic in my view, but if I saw this guy do this, I'd kick his ***. It clearly crosses the line.
    Mike

    website under construction

  4. #54
    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    As regards Week's Manifesto One item there rather alarmed me, Weeks says he spent 40 minutes following an individual, on the street, at night.
    I think that goes well beyond Street-Shooting and far, far, far into Stalkerazzi territory.
    Quite so; how would any of us feel if we were being followed like this by a stranger? Indeed, how would we feel generally about being the subject of the photograph - on the wrong side of the lens, as it were? Intrustion of your personal space? Something like the idea that the camera steals part of your spirit? Worse from close up, or being spied upon from across the street with a tele lens?

    I don't think I have ever been the subject; but I would feel uncomfortable about it, and I would feel even less comfortable than Jono actually doing it.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Quite so; how would any of us feel if we were being followed like this by a stranger? Indeed, how would we feel generally about being the subject of the photograph - on the wrong side of the lens, as it were? Intrustion of your personal space? Something like the idea that the camera steals part of your spirit? Worse from close up, or being spied upon from across the street with a tele lens?

    I don't think I have ever been the subject; but I would feel uncomfortable about it, and I would feel even less comfortable than Jono actually doing it.
    Personally, it's very much on a case by case basis. Some people I'd be fine with shooting me at a lot of times nad places, whereas other people I would feel more or less offended. For instance a relative of mine ticks me off just about each time with his completely insensitive lock on target splat bang flash in your face approach. Not amused, and I'm sure he's got one where my expressions clearly reads as such: delete or get a shin kicked.

    And a sincere question on that very note: for what good reason would anyone post a picture of a person wearing that expression on his/her face? Public place, public face; fair and square, but then be sensible enough about what to save and what to delete. Posting it on the web is in my opinion an excercise in line crossing; soul killing if you will.

  6. #56
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Weeks has one blurry shot of a buxom bartender/waitress.
    Bars are private property that allow the public in.
    As such they can and often do restrict camera use.
    She appears to be in a Gentlemens Club.
    In such places they tend to be even more sensitive to the privacy of their customers.
    Weeks is very lucky not to have had his a** handed to him.
    One of his statements summarizes his view on this saying don't shoot where it is not allowed, "at least not openly".
    More Stalker-talk
    I have been the target of an up-skirt-shooter.
    I looked down while at a Bar (not a GC) and saw his face and camera right below me, not quite so close as Per's example ( he was lying on his back between my legs having dropped his keys a pretext)
    He got a Top-Shelf Magarita bath; oops I spilled it. I missed his camera.
    He was then 'removed' from the bar.

  7. #57
    bartlebooth
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    One other point I'd like to add to this discussion is that street photography is more than just random snaps of strangers living their lives in an urban environment. Just because someone happens to look 'interesting' doesn't necessarily mean a quick snap of them makes an interesting photo. I admire good street photographers (espec. Joel Meyerowitz and of course HCB) but go back and look at their work and you'll see what I mean. There is a 'punctum' in all their shots, they are not just random potshots or 'atmosphere'. I think the ease, economy and instant feedback of digital has led to an explosion of shots 'in the style of street photography' but without the wit and intelligence that made this style so enjoyable in the first place.

  8. #58
    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by bartlebooth View Post
    One other point I'd like to add to this discussion is that street photography is more than just random snaps of strangers living their lives in an urban environment. Just because someone happens to look 'interesting' doesn't necessarily mean a quick snap of them makes an interesting photo. I admire good street photographers (espec. Joel Meyerowitz and of course HCB) but go back and look at their work and you'll see what I mean. There is a 'punctum' in all their shots, they are not just random potshots or 'atmosphere'. I think the ease, economy and instant feedback of digital has led to an explosion of shots 'in the style of street photography' but without the wit and intelligence that made this style so enjoyable in the first place.

    Thank you bartlebooth for articulating my sentiments exactly.

    I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't a book deal waiting for someone who manages to strap one of those infrared-triggered-capture-the-deer-in-the-woods-at-night boxes to a lamp post and collect hundreds of photos of the humans that walk past it. <sarcasm>If you use this idea, please remember to mention me in the Acknowledgements of your book</sarcasm>

  9. #59
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    Ahem
    That guy needs a kick from a spike heel
    Hard
    grrrrrrrrr
    Stuff like this should never happen period. This is a respect for your fellow human being, Period. It has nothing to do with photography but being a pervert.


    I agree i would have seriously kicked his *** on the spot and would gladly be arrested for doing it. Sorry i have a lot of respect for women and no one needs to be treated like this. Chivalry should never die.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  10. #60
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't a book deal waiting for someone who manages to strap one of those infrared-triggered-capture-the-deer-in-the-woods-at-night boxes to a lamp post and collect hundreds of photos of the humans that walk past it. <sarcasm>If you use this idea, please remember to mention me in the Acknowledgements of your book</sarcasm>
    I think you just described any street corner in the UK. It'd have to be a book of CCTV stills, but they'd have plenty to choose from, that's for sure.

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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Re: bartlebooth and TRSmith,

    You should have seen this cam-slinger, or maybe you have: Tucked in under a sloped backward berrett, strategically positioned in the corner of a Chinese take-away; zooming his DLSR, firing away, chimping; repeat, non-stop. A firm flash on every beat.

    I'd say he must have overcome most of his shyness by now, ready to hit the streets and start pushing the make-some-art button.

  12. #62
    bartlebooth
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    Thank you bartlebooth for articulating my sentiments exactly.

    I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't a book deal waiting for someone who manages to strap one of those infrared-triggered-capture-the-deer-in-the-woods-at-night boxes to a lamp post and collect hundreds of photos of the humans that walk past it. <sarcasm>If you use this idea, please remember to mention me in the Acknowledgements of your book</sarcasm>
    Ha, that's a good one! I think you just jump-started the career of an art student somewhere..

  13. #63
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by bartlebooth View Post
    One other point I'd like to add to this discussion is that street photography is more than just random snaps of strangers living their lives in an urban environment. Just because someone happens to look 'interesting' doesn't necessarily mean a quick snap of them makes an interesting photo. I admire good street photographers (espec. Joel Meyerowitz and of course HCB) but go back and look at their work and you'll see what I mean. There is a 'punctum' in all their shots, they are not just random potshots or 'atmosphere'. I think the ease, economy and instant feedback of digital has led to an explosion of shots 'in the style of street photography' but without the wit and intelligence that made this style so enjoyable in the first place.
    Digital photography has led to an explosion of shots in all the styles of photography, it doesn't mean there isn't a lot of good stuff being done now. I think that there is an enormous amount of talent out there that would have never seen the light of day before digital imagery made exploration of creativity so accessible to the masses. I think it is wonderful what has happened in recent years. Agreed there is a lot of mediocrity out there, but there is also a lot of outstanding creativity as well, often with very basic cameras. My son belongs to the teenage photographers forum on flickr and some of the image sets on it are astonishingly good.

  14. #64
    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by thomasl.se View Post
    Re: bartlebooth and TRSmith,

    You should have seen this cam-slinger, or maybe you have: Tucked in under a sloped backward berrett, strategically positioned in the corner of a Chinese take-away; zooming his DLSR, firing away, chimping; repeat, non-stop. A firm flash on every beat.

    I'd say he must have overcome most of his shyness by now, ready to hit the streets and start pushing the make-some-art button.
    All this needs is a little music and that's hip-hop platinum!

  15. #65
    bartlebooth
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I think that there is an enormous amount of talent out there that would have never seen the light of day before digital imagery made exploration of creativity so accessible to the masses.

    I wonder if this is true. Before digital there were plenty of inexpensive film cameras that talented individuals could use to explore their creativity. It wasn't a cost issue, it just required a little more work. No doubt digital makes taking pictures easier, I think the jury's still out whether it has made people better photographers.

  16. #66
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by bartlebooth View Post
    I wonder if this is true. Before digital there were plenty of inexpensive film cameras that talented individuals could use to explore their creativity. It wasn't a cost issue, it just required a little more work. No doubt digital makes taking pictures easier, I think the jury's still out whether it has made people better photographers.
    Perhaps not just the digital cameras, but certainly I think web sites such as flickr are doing a lot to bring out the talent that has always been there but has not always been expressed.

  17. #67
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by thomasl.se View Post
    Re: bartlebooth and TRSmith,

    You should have seen this cam-slinger, or maybe you have: Tucked in under a sloped backward berrett, strategically positioned in the corner of a Chinese take-away; zooming his DLSR, firing away, chimping; repeat, non-stop. A firm flash on every beat.

    I'd say he must have overcome most of his shyness by now, ready to hit the streets and start pushing the make-some-art button.
    That image is terrifyingly funny.
    Sad, but I have seen it.
    ^_^

  18. #68
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Alland View Post
    Opinionated? That's an understatement! The whole piece is twaddle, written in one-line paragraphs by someone who seems functionally illiterate — as they say, writing reflects your capacity for thinking. There's not an original thought in the whole piece — and the photographs are all derivate as well, although a few of them are of some interest. A lot of them have grim, "bad bokeh" and would benefit having been taken with a small sensor camera with huge depth of field. The whole wretched piece is full of cliches from the 1950s — not really worth spending time writing about it more. I guess you can see that I'm not too fond of it. <grin>
    I thought maybe it was just me

    Actually, reading the "forewards" and seeing the work of the other photographers was worth the price of admission. In fact I thought that was "the book", but sadly, the raging dogmatic diatribe (rdd ™) followed. I guess I'm going to have to sell all my digital stuff and buy an MP and Summicron so I can be a "real" street photographer

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Two articles worth Reading: On a Happier Note.......ReidReviews.com
    Sean Reids
    "PHOTOGRAPHING STRANGERS" & "STREET PHOTOGRAPHY /part one"

  20. #70
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    the raging dogmatic diatribe (rdd ™)

  21. #71
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    the whole "democratization" of media and art by digital technologies is a whole 'nother topic, about which I have argued passionately and generated an RDD or three. After years of being on the bleeding edge of digital media, social software and other disruptive technologies, I have come to the conclusion that the amount of talent in the world is a constant...the tools just allow some to more easily discover and nurture it, and for others to engage it. A caveat is that as visual/digital literacy increases, so does the bar for content. Differentiation is the challenge, especially as the tools seem to be becoming less unique (like car designs).

    This is another thread though...suffice it to say we live in amazing times.

  22. #72
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    time for a photo. I love the look on her face


  23. #73
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    So no love for Chris Weeks ; )


    I saw an interesting scene the other day at the beach...... A policeman ,two college kids ,and three chinese..... (two men and a woman interpreter).

    The two college kids accusing the chinese man of taking photographs of little girls ..... the Hawaiian cop, the white college kids and the guy from mainland china with his interpreter hashing it all out ... meanwhile the rest of the people on the beach hear bits and pieces ....which gets more distorted as people tell others what is happening .."the guys taking pictures of little girls" ..blah blah blah... it has turned into quite a scene ..... the mob mentality kicks in..... I think it is all so interesting ... and start photographing ...... and to be honest I was pissed at the 2 college kids so I focus my attention on them .... taking photographs only to be an intrusion and to piss off the photographic phobic college boy.... it worked ... The cop now wanted to talk to me and told me I had to wait... college kid wants to know why I am photographing ....

    A big waste of time ..... The college kid is now shaking the hand of the chinese guy ..situation seems to be a big misunderstanding and no problem .... no lynching from the palm trees today ....... done ....

    I walk over to a group of local people who are going on and on about it ... I try and explain another way of seeing it and that it may have been the college boys that where mistaken ..... stranger in a strange land ...
    LOL I get physically attacked by some women for defending these guys and for photographing the situation ..... They may hang someone after all me !

    My take ... This guy from mainland China has never been anywhere like Waikiki Beach. Everything looks so interesting ..... that american kid is so cute ... takes picture .

  24. #74
    Senior Member pollobarca's Avatar
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    People should wear Burkas or not go out if they have problems being in public.
    If you are out in public then inevitably you will be photographed.Trying taking a picture in a public place without getting people in the way.From a composition pov i try to hang on until I find people in interesting positions or occupying empty space when photographing monuments etc.i'm not very good at this but i do keep trying.A beach without people is pretty boring really.
    I saw a calculation that said people are imaged by surveillance about 50 times a day.May be so in big cities.
    Anyway the mass hysteria about dirty old men (thats what they were called by my mum when I was five) AKA paedophiles is way out of hand. Parents need to educate their children , not just expect repression from authority , to protect them. Kids are cute to photograph and that seems perfectly normal to me.
    They have now become dangerous to photograph too, with no benefit with regard to decreasing child abuse.

    being sneaky in photography is not a good idea though.
    My two pennies worth.

    brgds
    paul

    Quote Originally Posted by ShiroKuro View Post
    So no love for Chris Weeks ; )


    I saw an interesting scene the other day at the beach...... A policeman ,two college kids ,and three chinese..... (two men and a woman interpreter).

    The two college kids accusing the chinese man of taking photographs of little girls ..... the Hawaiian cop, the white college kids and the guy from mainland china with his interpreter hashing it all out ... meanwhile the rest of the people on the beach hear bits and pieces ....which gets more distorted as people tell others what is happening .."the guys taking pictures of little girls" ..blah blah blah... it has turned into quite a scene ..... the mob mentality kicks in..... I think it is all so interesting ... and start photographing ...... and to be honest I was pissed at the 2 college kids so I focus my attention on them .... taking photographs only to be an intrusion and to piss off the photographic phobic college boy.... it worked ... The cop now wanted to talk to me and told me I had to wait... college kid wants to know why I am photographing ....

    A big waste of time ..... The college kid is now shaking the hand of the chinese guy ..situation seems to be a big misunderstanding and no problem .... no lynching from the palm trees today ....... done ....

    I walk over to a group of local people who are going on and on about it ... I try and explain another way of seeing it and that it may have been the college boys that where mistaken ..... stranger in a strange land ...
    LOL I get physically attacked by some women for defending these guys and for photographing the situation ..... They may hang someone after all me !

    My take ... This guy from mainland China has never been anywhere like Waikiki Beach. Everything looks so interesting ..... that american kid is so cute ... takes picture .

  25. #75
    Senior Member ShiroKuro's Avatar
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    Re: surreptitious shooting

    Here are 2 pics to go with my above post just ....

    good points pollobarca......
    Last edited by ShiroKuro; 30th October 2009 at 06:54.

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