colour and your decision to use it

[cam]

i asked this question of Mitch in another thread, but it kind of got lost....

i'm curious to know his response and others as well. this kind of goes out of the territory of simply small sensor cameras, but most people will have at least one of those for slice of life people shots, usually taken on the street, which is within the context i'm asking this question. yes, people -- not landscapes.

despite my preference for b/w photographs, i've found myself looking at the possibility of using colour more since i purchased the DP1. does the DP1 have better colours than the GRDII? not necessarily, but the cleaner images make the colour more acceptable whereas it's very difficult for me to get a good grain in colour on the GRDII if i'm shooting high ISO.

we all have our preferences. fine. we're not going to all agree on what is better for people shots. fine. sometimes it is just personal preference, other times it is image specific or a mood one is trying to convey.

what i am interested in is what influence does the actual camera you're using affect your decision to use colour or process to black and white? is it always image specific or does the tool play a part?

 

[Lili]

Cam,
For me at least, the image plays a far greater part then the camera does in my decision whether or not to use color.
The camera determines more for me what I try to get rather than how I try to capture it.

 

[DavidE]

Cam,

I'm finding that -- because the DP1 has so much detail and color information -- I have more latitude to experiment with the processing. With color, I can make it more surreal or even hyper-real without losing the integrity of image. With B&W, I can shift the tones to a greater extent than I would with a small sensor camera. In that sense, the camera can make a difference, though when shooting -- at least for me -- the experience needs to be intuitive, not cluttered with later possibilities.

Here's a DP1 image I quickly altered in Lightroom. The first one is close to what came out of the camera.

 

[Joan]

Interesting topic. Wish i could weigh in ... but must confess that I haven't learned to 'see' in B&W yet, nor been very successful with conversions. :-( I am awed by the work you all do and WANT so much to be able to do B&W. I am such a color-oriented person that I fear I'll never get it.

Look forward to reading this thread and seeing more examples. Thanks for posting, Cam.

Joan

 

[cam]

thank you for all for responding. i've just been wondering about it all and don't really have anyone to discuss it with it... i really hope more people chime in. it intrigues me.

i am the opposite of you, Joan. whilst i have a very keen sense of colour and am often attracted by it for a capture, i tend to see black and white when i shoot. it helps me define lines and light and the geometry of things. it may have to do with working for years as a graphic designer, working for people who were too cheap to pay for colour adverts and the like :ROTFL:

if you really do want to try b/w, there are several actions and wonderful plug-ins that will ease your learning curve. not that there's anything wrong with colour at all.

the ability to shoot RAW on pretty much all of our cameras, obviously, allows us to make the decision afterwards, Lili, which is great. you never know what you missed when you took your shot in the first place.

David is feeling the same way as i am about the DP1 which is what started me thinking. i'm finding i really am more attracted to the colours. thank you for the examples, David. show off! did they really have to be that OOF? :ROTFL:

btw, any night shots from the strip? this is the first NAB i've missed in (gasp) two decades and i miss the lights!

 

[DavidE]

Cam, sorry you missed NAB (unless you wanted to).

On this particular evening at NAB, the light show in the sky was as interesting as the lights on the strip.

One of the NAB attendees saw me with the DP1 pointed up at the sky. He yelled out, "Hope you have a wide-angle lens." I yelled back, "I do -- it's a 28mm."

 

[cam]

Cam, sorry you missed NAB (unless you wanted to).

On this particular evening at NAB, the light show in the sky was as interesting as the lights on the strip.

One of the NAB attendees saw me with the DP1 pointed up at the sky. He yelled out, "Hope you have a wide-angle lens." I yelled back, "I do -- it's a 28mm."

excuse my initial response which was quite foul: **** me! whoa! i know that skyline, know that view. i've seen those clouds -- but you got it!!! jealous, jealous, jealous! i am sorry i missed it. missed many of my friends and the chance to visit Red Rocks if only to dream of climbing. sigh. you're right -- that's better than the strip at night any day!

 

[Maggie O]

I've come to see color as a compositional element in my photographs- it is the harmony to the melody of a picture's geometry. Black and White photography is Bach, color photography is Mozart and really big color prints are Beethoven. Or, for the rock and rollers out there, B&W is Sun Records, color is The Beatles and big color prints are The Who in 1974.

Oh, and I often wind up doing B&W because the color noise in a photo is all dookie. This happens more with the D-Lux 3 than the M8, but that really doesn't seem to affect the ratio between the two cameras.

 

[Lili]

Cam,
Your point about RAW and the choices it offers afterwards is very well taken.
My excurison with the Fuji last weekend when I took that shot of the Chrome and the Pontiac were all done RAW.
It was my first real experience with post process and I LOVED it.
So Much Control.
:thumbs:
The Fuji writes RAW in just under 5 seconds using a type H XP card, so the DP-1 write time would be no huge stress for me.
Sadly the GRD RAW write times are no so much fun
If they made a Sigma with a 40 or 50mm EFL I would have one now!
As it stands, the EFL thing is one reason I still very much am torn between the DP-1 and E420 with the pancake lens...

 

[TRSmith]

I sincerely wish I knew what I was seeing regardless of whether it's B&W or color. It's a puzzlement to me why I point and shoot at the things I do. I can honestly say that I don't remember ever thinking to myself prior to pushing the shutter release that "oo, this will be great in black and white". I have however, been hypnotized by the color of something, be it the subject or the light itself.

Some of this has been a recent development in the sense that back in the bronze age when I shot film, you actually had to choose before you started a shooting session whether it was to be B&W or color. Digital is always color (forgetting the B&W setting on some cameras). So now, B&W is something done in post. Often via trial and error. Occasionally, I'll actually premeditate the processing and recognize when a shot will work better in B&W. But more often it is one of many experiments, and usually one of the last things I'll try on an image that I am desperately trying to make into something worthy.

As I've maybe bored you with in the past, I've spent thousands of hours in a black and white print darkroom when I was employed as a custom printer. Old habits are hard to break and my MO back then was always to first make a print as natural looking as possible. But with all the software available now, not only is THAT easier to do, but additional "effects" are almost limitless in their variety and ease.

Graphic designers often start a project by defining shapes and spaces in black and white, and only after that starts to feel right, will introduce the element of color. So I agree that seeing past the color and looking at how the elements combine to fill the frame is worthwhile. But I'm not sure that a lot or any of this gets processed in my head when I lift the camera to eye. Or maybe it does and it is on a more subconscious level.

So, there you have it. A rambling brain dump after eating half a bag of Worther's Original Caramels. (Which are a really nice caramel color by the way.)

 

[Lili]

You know, on reflection, I realize that there is one camera that does influence me to use B&W.
My GRD.
Since it does JPEG's so very well and can do them 'natively' in B&W and alows full control over sharpness, exposure and contrast.
Given the time, I will take several images with variations in each, reviewing them on the LCD.
With experience, this process works quite well.

 

[nei1]

Lili,I think you and I are in similar boats,Im going to wait awhile to see what lens is bolted on to the dp2;if it exists at all.Have you seen work by Martin Parr?He uses colour as part of the construction of the image,its almost like a colour black and white photograph,if that makes any sense.

 

[Lili]

Lili,I think you and I are in similar boats,Im going to wait awhile to see what lens is bolted on to the dp2;if it exists at all.Have you seen work by Martin Parr?He uses colour as part of the construction of the image,its almost like a colour black and white photograph,if that makes any sense.

Have you a link to his work?
Edit; found them

 

[nei1]

http://www.martinparr.com/index1.html or better try here
http://www.stephendaitergallery.com/dynamic/exhibit_display.asp?ArtistID=39&ExhibitID=4
summer in the uk shows best what I mean,here. http://www.stephendaitergallery.com/dynamic/exhibit_display.asp?ArtistID=39&ExhibitID=67#

 

[helenhill]

I tend to see the Picture /Composition first
be it the Subject Matter or just the whole Visual Vibe
I never really think in terms of Colour OR B&W until I see the Captured Image
and then decide from there
however seeing so much FANTASTIC B&W work on this site
its opened my eyes to experiment more in that direction
Mind you when I shot film I only shot B&W

With RE: to the GRD 2 I love Color: just tweak saturation /contrast/exposure (still learning pp)

RE: TO DP1- When I get the DP1 I would be most INSPIRED to shoot in B&W (which is on backorder /unless I change my mind in the shop & get the Oly 420) I would be most inspired to shoot IN B&W particularly after seeing Madame Cam's two shots/ ' Kitchen Blues Dishwashing' & ''The Lovers'
Though Will,David & Brian's DP1 color work does blow me away. OH YES,I forgot RAW,RAW,RAW.....
Best! helen

 

[cam]

i love the way this thread is going so i haven't want to butt in BUT Neil's link reminded me of something i wanted to share. i saw this guy's exhibition at Bon Marché in december and would have completely forgotten about it had a friend in town not seen this photographer's work elsewhere. his name is Harry Gruyaert and his work is simply stunning.

his work really needs to be seen large to really get the full impact, but still: http://www.magnumad.com/#at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=0&p=0&a=4 he has managed to marry a b/w feel to his images (complete with high contrast and pushed ISO for an out of this world grain) with colour that almost seems hand-painted.... they are photographs and paintings all at the same time. i've been playing around with ways to achieve this in PPand may have come close, but i still haven't taken an image to do it justice...

 

[helenhill]

ABSOLUTELY LOVE​

Gryaert's ....Work

 

[Brian Mosley]

Hi cam, that's an interesting effect...

I tend to decide on B&W during PP, depending entirely on the subject, and quality of colour.

Here are a couple from the weekend, where we had rubbish weather... quite overcast - so I went to B&W.

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[wbrandsma]

My B&W work is not in any sense camera related. There is a strong personal reason for me. I have experimented with colour recently to see whether I like(d) it, or at least gave a look, and mood that I would like. But I constantly was in doubt if my pictures should be more or less saturated, if the colours were right for me.
But because there are personal reasons for me, and time can heal, things might change.

And thanks Cam for that link to the work of Harry Gruyaert. Very fascinating, and beautiful.

 

[Bob]

Yes,
I just chuck a roll of TMax into my MP or maybe Tri-X when I feel particularly gritty.
-bob