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Thread: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    Folks,

    know I am in the right (or wrong) forum here. I am following the DP2s threads since quite a time (also the general DPxyz threads) and must say I am really amazed by the IQ results. I would really like to give it a try with a DP2s, but have some concerns:

    1) I own already too many cameras, DSLR (Nikon), MF (Hasselblad), small cameras like EP2 and several Digilux 2, 3 etc.

    2) Will the IQ be really better than the EP2?

    3) How difficult are the Sigma RAWs to develop - is Adobe Camera Raw supporting these files? What are post processing SW - I think I will not like the Sigma SW.

    4) What are the weak sides of this camera - be honest please!

    5) What if I really like the Foveon results, I will maybe then also go for a SD15 - I really fear!

    6) Will there be a FF Foveon sensor and DSLR in some reasonable time?

    Thanks for your feedback!

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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Folks,

    know I am in the right (or wrong) forum here. I am following the DP2s threads since quite a time (also the general DPxyz threads) and must say I am really amazed by the IQ results. I would really like to give it a try with a DP2s, but have some concerns:

    1) I own already too many cameras, DSLR (Nikon), MF (Hasselblad), small cameras like EP2 and several Digilux 2, 3 etc.

    2) Will the IQ be really better than the EP2?

    3) How difficult are the Sigma RAWs to develop - is Adobe Camera Raw supporting these files? What are post processing SW - I think I will not like the Sigma SW.

    4) What are the weak sides of this camera - be honest please!

    5) What if I really like the Foveon results, I will maybe then also go for a SD15 - I really fear!

    6) Will there be a FF Foveon sensor and DSLR in some reasonable time?

    Thanks for your feedback!
    I've sold my DP2 recently and whilst it's not exactly the same, the DP2s only has faster autofocusing and power save mode. Now to answer your questions:

    DP2s vs EP2 image quality. Depends what you shoot. In daylight the DP2s will put out better looking, sharper images, perhaps with better dynamic range too. In low light it will struggle and Oly will perform better. I guess Oly might be a tad faster to operate too.

    Sigma software in my opinion is the one to use with Sigma files. It's very easy to use, and the latest verion (downloadable) includes noise reduction too. It has all that you need, and if you want to do serious retouching afterwards, you can always do that in Photoshop or any other photo reouching software.

    The weaknesses inlude slow-ish operation and autofocus. No eyefinder, LCD resolution could be higher. The Olympus should feel more solid in your hands, although I have no problems with the Sigma build quality either. Another drawback is that you can't change lenses on the Sigma compacts. You can however add a close-up lens. There's no video recording, well there is actually, but I don't call it proper video as the resolution is about the same as that of a mobile phone's. And finally this camera requires patience to get the very most of it. But once you master it, the image quality will reward you.

    I'm sure you will like the Foveon quality, especially if you don't shoot in low light alot. It does render ok in lowlight but really suffers from desaturation. If you like black and white photography this shouldn't be a big problem as once converted to B&W, even ISO1600 (and up) looks great. Very film-like too.

    I can't tell that for sure, but I would guess that there won't be a FF Sigma.

    Anyway, you may actually want to wait a little until you can buy the SD15. It's a big camera and is quite simmilar to the DP2s in terms of image quality, but you could play with different lenses, and benefit from a proper eyefinder too.

    Have you checked sample images of the Sigma yet? There are plenty online.

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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    nothing to add, except i like the form of it (if you add the franic grip, essential). people tell me it doesn't look like a digital camera. i like that. you can check out the ones i've been taking this weekend and decide for yourself. the lens and the sensor fit each other perfectly. a big plus

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    I have a DP2 and I won't talk you out of it. Conversely I won't tell you to buy one either but I will say that the Sigma can produce results that is quite unique when given the right conditions. Someone else said it but the DPx is a bit of a Goldilocks camera - it has to be just right - the light that is.

    I tend to leave the Sigma at home if I need high ISO - above 400, even more like ISO 200 or 100 is needed, most of your other cameras will do a better job at above 400 ISO IMHO. I have seen a buddy get great night shots with a tripod and slow ISO. For me I love the DPx for window lit portraits.

    See here for my example of a BW portrait -- http://ricohforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3309



    Sure , there is some noise in the seat but I find it hard to ignore the face and its rendering. Could you do this with another camera? probably but I like the look.

    This page and site from Carl Rytterfalk is worth a visit - http://www.rytterfalk.com/2009/04/20...ll-size-shots/
    Last edited by Tim; 17th May 2010 at 20:12.

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    Senior Member otumay's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    Tim, this is one of the best DP shots I've come across! Excellent shot and pp.
    Best,
    Osman

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    Quote Originally Posted by otumay View Post
    Tim, this is one of the best DP shots I've come across! Excellent shot and pp.
    Best,
    Osman
    Osman,

    Thanks for the kind words. Your images are also testament to how the DPx can produce some magic, your image here shows excellent cloud details and is a good example of the DR range the DPx can manage..

    I love the subject and your capture.

    Image by Osman (Not Tim - hope you dont mind me linking your image here - as an example!)

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    You cannot get that in your face 3d look from any other camera other and sigma's dp1, dp2 and their dslrs. I've never seen anything like it even from pro cameras...BUT it's too slow, too expensive, bad at high iso, it doesn't have the best manual controls, you cannot change the lenses. If this camera was like 300 bucks I'd probably have a dp1 and a dp2, but for the money they are asking you can buy the new Sony NEX3 (or NEX5 for a hundred bucks more), have a zoom a prime 24mm f2.8, with a sensor that will give you great dynamic range and high iso that is usable up to 3200. I have just pre oredered a NEX5 from Monza with both lenses and I'm sure I'll end up buying the adapter to use sony legacy lenses. But make no mistake, if sigma ever launches a micro 4/3 type camera with a foveon sensor I'm buying it and never letting it go.

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    Senior Member otumay's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    Thank you Tim, much appreciated.

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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    they're view cameras in disguise. you have to look at them that way. (osman's pic the perfect example). i'm getting to hate carrying anything bigger unless i have to impess people!

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    Thanks all for your inputs!

    I have tried a DP2 over the past days and although I think it is a fine camera, I cannot really get friend with it. It produces stunning results, but I think only with the Sigma SW. I tried also Adobe Camera RAW wit PS CS4 and I was disappointed by the colors resulting out of this.

    I am sure this is my fault, but I am not willing to play around with too many SW packages (already using C1 Pro, Phocus, Aperture and PS CS4 - this needs to be enough.

    Thanks anyway for your feedback.

  11. #11
    nevillemartin11
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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    I have used both camera. I have noticed that DP1 is unusual camera. I have also tried DP2 camera. I have seen that There is only different between them that DP2 has more flexible 41mm equivalent focal length than DP1. So I liked it dude.

  12. #12
    Pascal
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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    1) I own already too many cameras, DSLR (Nikon), MF (Hasselblad), small cameras like EP2 and several Digilux 2, 3 etc.
    Each system caters to a different platform and specific use.
    I was bitten by the Sigma Foveon bug when I picked up a DP1 for a decent price. While the DP1 is horrible as a camera to use, the images this little P&S could handle just got me very interested in the DP2s - they are two very different cameras.
    I use Nikon FX for my SLR kit, the Micro 4/3rds system for a compact interchangable lens system kit (huge difference in size and weight compared to my Nikon kit), had an S90 for a P&S, Contax G2 system for RF, and a little Contax T that has served me well for 25 years. Had an LX3 and had been thru the Canon G series before the S90.
    Ever since I got my hands on the DP1 and more recently a DP2s, my Nikon and Panasonic/Olympus camera's have not been used much.


    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    2) Will the IQ be really better than the EP2?
    I use the GH1+14-140 and EP2+7-14mm. It's almost like comparing apples to oranges. The EP2 offers very nice typical Olympus colors and the Olympus/panasonic lenses are very good - sharp, contrasty, and compact. The 7-14mm f4.0 is my absolute favorite. However, foveon has a little bit different flavor to offer and while both are quite good in their own way, I prefer the look for the DP2s files. Shooting at ISO 800 or ISO 1600 (B&W or color), you can actually get a bit more detail from the foveon sensor than you can from the M4/3rds sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    3) How difficult are the Sigma RAWs to develop - is Adobe Camera Raw supporting these files? What are post processing SW - I think I will not like the Sigma SW.
    I have been using Sigma Photo Pro and while this software is extremely limiting compared to CS5 or even Bibble, it does a good job with the X3F files and is quite simple to use. You can always post process more once you are done with the X3F in SPP. ACR and Lightroom (I think) support X3F files, but when SPP does such a good job, why bother with other software.


    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    4) What are the weak sides of this camera - be honest please!
    AF is good and the lens is impressive, but overall it is a slow camera compared to say the Canon S90. It is no match for the AF speed of the GH1 with panasonic lenses and is not even worth comparing to an SLR in terms of AF speed or overall operation.
    This is the camera you want if you have time to think and get the shot you have in mind. Not suitable for moving subjects unless you are into shooting snails or maybe a wounded rodent that has a limp. Absolutely impressive for outdoor daylight use and portraits if your subjects can stand still. Did I say the lens is absolutely amazing - right from f2.8. While one can't compare a 28mm f4.0 lens to a 41mm f2.8 lens due to the different focal lengths, if you had to choose one based on the better lens, without a doubt the DP2s has one of the best lenses used on a P&S.
    I am looking forward to trying out the time lapse feature the DP2s offers.
    Metering is quite accurate, but as with most digital camera's, the WB settings need some tweaking from time to time. I have not had issues with the magenta or green casts that have been mentioned in the forums from time to time. I only shoot RAW and maybe the cast issue is a JPG deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    5) What if I really like the Foveon results, I will maybe then also go for a SD15 - I really fear!
    As always best to wait a while to let the early adopters help sigma get the kinks out of any new camera. But damn, it seems like a pretty decent camera.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    6) Will there be a FF Foveon sensor and DSLR in some reasonable time?
    Welcome to the "Lets all hold hands and pray for a full frame foveon" club.



    Here are some snapshots from the DP1 and DP2s - mostly street graffiti - the level of detail in the full size images is stunning.

  13. #13
    Pascal
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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    A few more snapsots

  14. #14
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking of buying a DP2s - talk me out of it

    There is something very special about the IQ... I keep meaning to get my DP1 out and get to grips with it again.

    Sigma DP1
    1/200s f/6.3 at 16.6mm iso100


    Sigma DP1
    1/160s f/8.0 at 16.6mm iso100


    Sigma DP1
    1/40s f/8.0 at 16.6mm iso100


    Cheers

    Brian

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