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Pana LX5 will be announced on July 21

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Two things on the LX5 launch that appear interesting.
1) the change in controls away from the joystick to GF1 handling. Sounds Good
2) the new step zoom which will take the user from 24 mm to 28, 35, 70, 90mm automatically in steps. This was a great Ricoh feature.

Here are the official details. This camera looks very promising. The samples look good and reading between the lines the person reading the preview thought it was going to be hard to get your hands on.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1007/10072110panasonicdmclx5.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1007/10072112lx5gallery.asp
Looking good so far - from the samples they look pretty impressive up to ISO 800, ISo 1600 not so great anymore.
 
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PeterLeyssens

Guest
Hi Rawfa,

The LX3 was a world apart better than the LX2.
I'm not saying it wasn't. I'm saying the reactions were bad because people expected miracles. It seems to me that we're experiencing the same thing now.


I had high hopes for the LX5. I´m looking forward to a good jeans pocket camera but I´ve been spoiled by the quality of cameras such as the EP1 and the GF1 and have prooven that it won´t take long to fit an even better sensor into an even smaller body.
Sure, and the M9 did the same: an FF sensor in a body of an M camera. People said it couldn't be done. But I don't think it's realistic to expect it now. Somebody on another forum pointed out that we all expect a lot more in a camera: continuous shooting, AF, advanced light metering, video, ... Trying to fit all that with a large sensor in a body the size of a cigarette pack is much harder than designing a box around a film format like Oscar Barnack did. Not to take anything away from his effort, because he defined the UI of all cameras until digital came along, but the technological advances were much more limited than what we're facing here.


At the moment I´ll just wait for the rumored compact micro 4/3.
Well, that rumour has been debunked in the meantime: there was confusion between the LX5 and some new µ43 bodies. Mixing both, you get a fixed lens µ43 body. While Panasonic may plan a large sensor fixed lens camera, it won't be µ43 (because there's no lens mount) and my guess is that it'll be a lot larger if it were to have an LX5 equivalent lens of 12-45/f2.0-3.3. No jeans pockets there, either !


Peter.
 

Rawfa

Active member
I´ve been reading more about the LX5 and there are some interesting points regarding it´s sensor. I might have spoken too promptly. Lets wait and see...I might just have to get some jeans with larger pockets ;)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
From all what I could see so far (dpreview, Panasonic site) the images look pretty cool up till ISO 800. The camera looks small enough to be an always with me cam and the operations seem to have significantly improved, as the LCD. No need for the EVF for me.

As a owner of all the DLUX models I know the earlier models and was actually already pretty happy with all of them.

So I ordered one at my local dealer, so I will be number 1 or 2 here in Vienna :)

If I like it (which I am pretty sure) I will hand it over to one of my kids and go for the Leica version ;)
 

Rawfa

Active member
From all what I could see so far (dpreview, Panasonic site) the images look pretty cool up till ISO 800. The camera looks small enough to be an always with me cam and the operations seem to have significantly improved, as the LCD. No need for the EVF for me.

As a owner of all the DLUX models I know the earlier models and was actually already pretty happy with all of them.

So I ordered one at my local dealer, so I will be number 1 or 2 here in Vienna :)

If I like it (which I am pretty sure) I will hand it over to one of my kids and go for the Leica version ;)
Man, I wish I was one of your kids hahahah.
BTW, Vienna was one of my favorite trips! I really loved the City.
 
Still waiting for the equivalent of a digital Contax T3, Olympus XA or Ricoh GR (sorry the GRDs just aren't there in terms of sensor quality - great interface though). The beauty of a fixed focal length is that manufacturers wouldn't need to screw around with EVFs, just give us a nice optical viewfinder with an electronic overlay of exposure data and a high res LCD for review.

I vacillate between hope and despair that this camera will ever be produced.
 

jonoslack

Active member
At the moment I´ll just wait for the rumored compact micro 4/3.
I think Peter is right about this one - confusion between two models together with a big wish that somehow the impossible was here. I don't think the body size is a problem (look at the NEX) it's that fast small zoom to go with it that's likely to be the difficulty.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
The body size is much better for putting into any pocket than any current m43 offers as soon as you attach the standard zoom to them. Anyway I found I never put any of these small cameras into any of my pockets - maybe my Jeans are too tight :D
 

m3photo

New member
Re: s90

I think the only really good jeans pocket camera is probably the S90.
I've seen a specs comparison between these two and apart from the lens reach and the fact that the s90's sensor is a tiny bit larger there's not much in it. Having an s90 myself there's nothing in the LX5 to prompt a switch save the viewfinder option and I've got a G1 for that.
 

fordfanjpn

Member
I just bought an NEX5, so I need another camera like I need another, well ... camera! But I'm afraid I'll end up getting an LX5. The LX3 has been my favorite camera since I got it, and still is, so it's new brother is a no brainer for me.

Bill
 

Rick Waldroup

New member
From what I understand, you can lock the zoom positions at different focal lengths, right?

If so, is there any type of "snap" mode on the camera like on the Ricoh GRD"s? I am interested in this as a street shooter but I would like a snap mode for minimal shutter lag. Does anyone know if the LX5 offers anything like this? Thanks, Rick.
 

Terry

New member
From what I understand, you can lock the zoom positions at different focal lengths, right?

If so, is there any type of "snap" mode on the camera like on the Ricoh GRD"s? I am interested in this as a street shooter but I would like a snap mode for minimal shutter lag. Does anyone know if the LX5 offers anything like this? Thanks, Rick.
I read about the step zoom but haven't seen anything about snap focus. Weird thing on the step zoom that I read said 28, 35, 70, 90....not sure if the missing 50 is a typo or a real skip.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
The LX5 looks good to me, for what it is (not what some crazy fantasy might want it to be ... ;-).

But I was looking at the Panasonic FZ100 model announcement. That's quite interesting. About the same form factor as the G1. Panasonic has done a great job with the FZ series so far. I've sold quite a bit of work I made with a JPEG only, 4M pixel FZ10. It's a handy sized camera with a lot of capabilities ... hmm.
 
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PeterLeyssens

Guest
Hi Terry,

I read about the step zoom but haven't seen anything about snap focus. Weird thing on the step zoom that I read said 28, 35, 70, 90....not sure if the missing 50 is a typo or a real skip.
Also, the 24 at the wide end is missing. But about the 50mm equivalents: when I look at the current new wave of pancakes, I find them funnily lacking in just about any offering. The only camera that comes with one fixed focal length lens that is 50mm is the Ricoh GXR. Olympus has a 35mm, Panasonic a 40mm, the Samsung is close with about 45mm, but nobody really gets out the trusted old 50mm. It must be a passing thing: I went without my 50mm for a few years only to rediscover it and now I'm using nothing but a 50mm on my film cameras.

I remember it was rumoured that Panasonic would make a 25mm that would be faster than f1.4, which would be great.


Peter.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Also, the 24 at the wide end is missing. But about the 50mm equivalents: when I look at the current new wave of pancakes, I find them funnily lacking in just about any offering. The only camera that comes with one fixed focal length lens that is 50mm is the Ricoh GXR. Olympus has a 35mm, Panasonic a 40mm, the Samsung is close with about 45mm, but nobody really gets out the trusted old 50mm. It must be a passing thing: I went without my 50mm for a few years only to rediscover it and now I'm using nothing but a 50mm on my film cameras.

I remember it was rumoured that Panasonic would make a 25mm that would be faster than f1.4, which would be great.
I presume you are talking in 35mm Equivalent Focal Length Speak since thre is no "Olympus 35mm" or "Panasonic 40mm" for Micro-FourThirds.

Olympus has the very nice, compact ZD 25mm f/2.8 for the FourThirds DSLRs, which also works a treat on the Micro-FourThirds bodies. Panasonic sells the Summilux-D 25mm f/1.4 ASPH for the DSLRs, which is a super fine performer, and works extremely well on the Micro-FourThirds bodies (albeit it's large).

I guess in 35mm Equivalent Focal Length Speak those are 50mm lenses, but since the formats are different proportions they're only "approximately 50mm lenses".

Yes, rumor has it that Panasonic is going to introduce a new Summilux-DG 25mm f/1.4 ASPH for the Micro-FourThirds format. Faster than f/1.4 ... likely not, as the mount design for FourThirds and Micro-FourThirds was designed to accommodate a maximum f/1.4 aperture.
 

m3photo

New member
Re: 50mm rediscovery

It must be a passing thing: I went without my 50mm for a few years only to rediscover it and now I'm using nothing but a 50mm on my film cameras.

I remember it was rumoured that Panasonic would make a 25mm that would be faster than f1.4, which would be great.
It's full-circle for me too. Like many, I started out with a 50mm f/1.4 on my first camera and have always kept one. Now, this focal length is the one I use most once again. Even on my s90 it's preset to open up to 50mm when I switch it on.
Will definitely buy the 25mm f/1.4 Panasonic for M4/3 when available. The 20mm f/1.7 hasn't appealed to me so far.
 
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PeterLeyssens

Guest
Hi Godfrey,

I presume you are talking in 35mm Equivalent Focal Length Speak since thre is no "Olympus 35mm" or "Panasonic 40mm" for Micro-FourThirds.
Obviously.


I guess in 35mm Equivalent Focal Length Speak those are 50mm lenses, but since the formats are different proportions they're only "approximately 50mm lenses".
Sure, but I didn't mention them because I forgot them. I was thinking about the mirrorless systems. You can use them, but the 25/f2.8 pancake doubles in size when mounting it on an adapter ring that then goes onto the µ43 body.


Yes, rumor has it that Panasonic is going to introduce a new Summilux-DG 25mm f/1.4 ASPH for the Micro-FourThirds format. Faster than f/1.4 ... likely not, as the mount design for FourThirds and Micro-FourThirds was designed to accommodate a maximum f/1.4 aperture.
I think that limitation was taken out of µ43, but I'm not sure. The requirement to have the light coming out of the lens nearly perpendicular to the sensor has also been toned down, IIRC. I also think that I read the rumours sites too frequently !


Peter.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Hi Godfrey,

I presume you are talking in 35mm Equivalent Focal Length Speak since thre is no "Olympus 35mm" or "Panasonic 40mm" for Micro-FourThirds.
Obviously.
I prefer to think of focal lengths as being attributes of the lens. It's less confusing. A normal lens focal length is dependent upon the format, translating everything through the perspective of a 35mm format is very often a major confusion point.


Sure, but I didn't mention them because I forgot them. I was thinking about the mirrorless systems. You can use them, but the 25/f2.8 pancake doubles in size when mounting it on an adapter ring that then goes onto the µ43 body.
It's still small and light weight even then. The ZD 25mm f/2.8 makes an excellent normal lens for the Micro-Fourthirds cameras.

I think that limitation was taken out of µ43, but I'm not sure. The requirement to have the light coming out of the lens nearly perpendicular to the sensor has also been toned down, IIRC. I also think that I read the rumours sites too frequently !
Micro-FourThirds and FourThirds sensor size is the same. If you draw a conic section starting with the image circle required to cover the sensor, with the included interior angle fixed by the FourThirds lens mount diameter at 38.5mm register distance, you'll find the smaller lens mount diameter of Micro-FourThirds fits at exactly 19.8mm on that conic section. QED, the same mount design for an f/1.4 lens speed is in place. You can fit faster lenses on either, but there is a limit to the benefit that can be gained from doing so.

The "requirement" for ray trace perpendicularity at the plane of the sensor hasn't relaxed at all. It was never a requirement, per se, it was a theoretical ideal and it still is. However, modern sensors have shallower photosite wells than sensors that were bleeding edge at the time that the FourThirds design ideas were being formulated. This fact, and the combined effects of FAR more in-camera processing power, more sophisticated image correction algorithms, lens correction metadata injected by the lens to aid corrections on a lens by lens basis, etc etc, have all combined to make Olympus and Panasonic a little more relaxed about ray trace perpendicularity ... With modern sensors and the corrections to the image data that can be applied nowadays easily, the effect is that the sensor can tolerate a couple more degrees of deviation from perpendicularity, allowing lens designers more latitude to produce smaller, simpler lens designs that perform as well. The shorter mount register helps a lot too.

Yes, everyone on these forums read the rumor sites too much. I don't hate them, but I find them mostly a source of misinformation inspiring endless pointless nattering on the discussion boards.
 
S

Specularist

Guest
I'm curious to see how the LX5 will handle high ISO. On another forum, somebody mentioned that R+B would be read twice and G would be made twice as sensitive.
Do you remember where you read this, Peter? The double-read method sounds very interesting.
 
S

Specularist

Guest
I've read widely about the LX5, but still haven't been able to find any mention of the speculated double-read method mentioned above. Neither have I been able to find full-resolution product photos, or the full-res versions of the marketing images (lens cutaway, etc.) used by all the usual sites such as DPReview and Imaging Resource (which they were presumably given on CD-ROM at the Swedish press event).

The lens diagram at this page still shows the old LX3 lens rather than the LX5 lens. I even dropped them a note about that a while ago, but Panasonic is amazingly amateurish when it comes to marketing materials, user manuals, etc. You'd think with Samsung snapping at their heels they'd try to differentiate themselves from Samsung's shambolic attempts at a website.

Nevertheless, I've pre-ordered this camera on the basis that my LX3 is my most important camera (if also my cheapest!), and the LX5 should be a useful improvement on it.
 
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