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Thread: Ooops I did it again

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    Ooops I did it again

    I quietly bought a GRD2 on the buy/sell of this forum. It arrived on Thursday just in time to take it on a trip to Las Vegas where I ended up with no time at all to take any real pictures.

    The camera itself is very impressive. I read the manual on the flight to Las Vegas and set up the menu items, function key and then I also have a My1 and My2 set up. I'm not telling people anything that is new but will agree that this is the best control layout for a compact camera that I have ever used (although for different reasons the Digilux 2 - much larger is my favorite).

    Here are my settings.....all comments and suggestions welcome.

    Adjustment wheel - ISO, WB, B&W etc, size (aspect ratio)

    Function button - AF/snap focus


    My1 is for landscapes and I will test that out later in the week in San Juan.
    Focus = infinity
    ISO 80
    Aperture priority starting at f4.5
    Daylight WB
    -.7 EV
    Full sized RAW 4:3
    Center weighted metering

    My2 is for street but I am trying out street shooting - not sure if these are optimal
    Focus = snap
    Auto ISO max 1600
    Aperture priority starting at f4.5 (may change it to 2.4)
    AWB
    -.7 EV
    center weighted metering
    RAW 1:1 (an experiment for me)

    Oh, image quality....no comments yet as I really didn't get a chance to shoot. So, here are some dreaded words the "test shots"....

    NO real PP on these...just resize and some contrast boost to the first.

    On the plane reading the manual and testing settings
    Attachment 4143

    Finally after landing - lunchtime
    Attachment 4144

    My only free time of the weekend
    Attachment 4145

    So,
    More from San Juan.
    Last edited by Terry; 12th May 2008 at 19:49.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    FANTASTIQUE Terry
    You are now 'Officially A Ricoh Girl'

    Love all three shots / in particular......... the last/ the red is magic

    Are you leaving today ? Have FUUUNNN in Puerto Rico!!!

    Best, H

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Thanks Helen,
    Between you and Cam I had lots of tips on setup. My trip to San Juan is a bit short. I have meetings tomorrow that I couldn't change so I don't arrive on the island until late tomorrow night...sigh. Hopefully, I will have something worthy to post from the trip.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Congratulations on buying the best camera. Forget about the M8, this is the real deal.

    I must say that I've found the MY settings to be of no use to me. It's so easy to change things on the fly, and whatever is set in the MY setting, is, well, set, and you may want something slightly different. I wonder what the experience of other people is with this.

    The other big plus is the manual focus, which is much better than on the GRDI, because of the distance indicator, and which I now use more often than snap.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Cool stuff Terrry,
    I bet you are gonna love the convenience and draw of 'lil'Ricoh'

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Wow Terry, you are too good to yourself. Enjoy!

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    Congratulations on buying the best camera. Forget about the M8, this is the real deal.

    I must say that I've found the MY settings to be of no use to me. It's so easy to change things on the fly, and whatever is set in the MY setting, is, well, set, and you may want something slightly different. I wonder what the experience of other people is with this.

    The other big plus is the manual focus, which is much better than on the GRDI, because of the distance indicator, and which I now use more often than snap.
    the my settings are only a starting point and you still have access to make all the changes you want. What it does is allow me to make 6-7 changes in settings in one move of the dial, which is even faster.
    Last edited by Terry; 13th May 2008 at 08:26.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    Wow Terry, you are too good to yourself. Enjoy!
    That is a bit of a problem. However, I will be selling some things quite soon. This was always a camera that intrigued me but not enough to go buy a new one. We shall see how it goes.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Terry, Your going to love it as a "on the fly" camera, however it is a small sensor and you'll have to deal with noise, either use it or deal with it in PP. Its a great companion to the M8 but no way a equal.
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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    congrats, Terry! i know you'll have a blast with it. definitely try some looser shots on the LCD as well. it's a different beast than the M8 and absolutely lovely! it does so many things and so well at that that it spoils you...

    i am looking forward to many experimental shots of froufrou drinks in San Juan

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Just to make one thing clear. I forgot to put a smiley next to my M8 comment. Just a quick look at the M8 forum, and it's clear the clarity, richness of color, just image quality in every way, shouldn't be compared with the GRDs. I think it can't be compared with the vast majority of SLR images - presumably because the average lens used on the M8 is superior to the average lens used on an SLRs.

    I was possibly trying to con somebody into donating an M8 to me.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by mwalker View Post
    Terry, Your going to love it as a "on the fly" camera, however it is a small sensor and you'll have to deal with noise, either use it or deal with it in PP. Its a great companion to the M8 but no way a equal.
    Yeah, the forget about the M8 comment from above made me laugh. When I go out in NYC I just take M8 and one lens anyway, so no hassles on size changing lenses etc.

    The difference in the files is clearly visible even on the LCD. There is no possible way that this would displace the M8 in my bag.
    So, we shall see how it does in San Juan.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    Just to make one thing clear. I forgot to put a smiley next to my M8 comment. Just a quick look at the M8 forum, and it's clear the clarity, richness of color, just image quality in every way, shouldn't be compared with the GRDs. I think it can't be compared with the vast majority of SLR images - presumably because the average lens used on the M8 is superior to the average lens used on an SLRs.

    I was possibly trying to con somebody into donating an M8 to me.
    I saw this after my reply. I will say a smile would have helped. There really is no comparing. Also, my D300 does well at ISO 3200 (better than GRD2 at 800 for sure. So, it will be interesting to see how I use it. I don't mind noise per se but skin tones have to render OK for me in a B&W conversion and it may take some time to get that right.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    the my settings are only a starting point and you still have access to make all the changes you want. What it does is allow me to make 6-7 changes in settings in one move of the dial, which is even faster.
    You are absolutely right, and I'm sure it can be useful depending on how you shoot. But for me it is one of the GRDII features that were not in GRDI that I thought would be great, but ended up never using. Probably, I don't shoot in a way that 6-7 changes are ever necessary, and like to keep the changes linear.

    In fact, lately I've often found myself using the camera with everything on manual.

    Here are the settings:

    The scroll button:

    Focus: spot AF/manual is the most common setting change I make.
    ISO: Obvious.
    Metering: Very often change from spot to weighted.
    JPEG quality: This is just to change the display from color to B&W, which I like to do. However, I never ever use the jpgs. The IQ compared to a raw conversion is much much worse.

    Fn button: AE lock. The easiest way to get the exposure to what you want, without going to full manual.
    Last edited by sizifo; 13th May 2008 at 09:35.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Terry,
    You beat me to it. After trying Helen's GRD I was very impressed with how quick on the draw it is.
    One saving grace is that there are no lenses to buy for it compared with the new point and shoot, the D3, that I just picked up.
    -bob

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Congratulations Terry
    I hope you enjoy - I've got it's little (big) brother the GX100.

    Now then - all you need to do is to change that half-cocked D300 for a D3 and you'll be doing just fine

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Now then - all you need to do is to change that half-cocked D300 for a D3 and you'll be doing just fine
    I thought she was going to grab Guy's ZD when he upgrades this week - or is Bob going to get it first!

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Congratulations Terry
    I hope you enjoy - I've got it's little (big) brother the GX100.

    Now then - all you need to do is to change that half-cocked D300 for a D3 and you'll be doing just fine
    Jono, while technically it may be a better camera, I haven't reconciled myself to carrying it around. I had the D300 plus 24-70 for 3 hours and that seemed like plenty to me. I know you are trying your best to wear me down....

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    I thought she was going to grab Guy's ZD when he upgrades this week - or is Bob going to get it first!
    One thing I can positively guarantee is that I am NOT getting a MF setup. Guy and I have even discussed that it really doesn't make any sense for me and what I shoot (not to mention my level of competence).

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Terry,
    You beat me to it. After trying Helen's GRD I was very impressed with how quick on the draw it is.
    One saving grace is that there are no lenses to buy for it compared with the new point and shoot, the D3, that I just picked up.
    -bob
    Bob,
    I am bringing it with me and we can play with it together. Once you see what you are getting from the D3 and your M8's you are not going to be overly pleased. However, it will be fun to see how it does out on the street.

    Somebody really needs to combine a large sensor with the GRD2 controls. I don't say DP1 because I'm not yet convinced on Foveon - except for B&W.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I saw this after my reply. I will say a smile would have helped. There really is no comparing. Also, my D300 does well at ISO 3200 (better than GRD2 at 800 for sure. So, it will be interesting to see how I use it. I don't mind noise per se but skin tones have to render OK for me in a B&W conversion and it may take some time to get that right.
    Mitch got it right but he had secrets. I wish he was still around.

    oh Terry, that cheese burger shot makes me hungry.
    Last edited by mwalker; 13th May 2008 at 19:50.
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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Bob,
    I am bringing it with me and we can play with it together. Once you see what you are getting from the D3 and your M8's you are not going to be overly pleased. However, it will be fun to see how it does out on the street.
    it's a totally different beast, and not really fair to compare it at all to the big boys... that said, what it does -- it does brilliantly, and is THE street camera! i seriously love bokeh and all that, but when you're shooting blindly from the hip, you never know exactly what you're going for until the moment is upon you. this is where the GRDII (and, i must say, the small sensor) shines.

    the only thing i really really miss is shutter priority. i know it can be done in full manual but i don't always have the time to shoot that way.

    i am having a blast with my R-D1, but it will never replace my GRDII for shots on the street. period. i already kind of knew that, but my time in NYC solidified that fact... it's a different way of shooting, but once you're able to make it yours, it's priceless!

    eta: those actions i told you about do beautiful b/w conversions, especially for skin tones.
    Last edited by cam; 14th May 2008 at 00:26. Reason: to add

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    it's a totally different beast, and not really fair to compare it at all to the big boys... that said, what it does -- it does brilliantly, and is THE street camera! i seriously love bokeh and all that, but when you're shooting blindly from the hip, you never know exactly what you're going for until the moment is upon you. this is where the GRDII (and, i must say, the small sensor) shines.

    the only thing i really really miss is shutter priority. i know it can be done in full manual but i don't always have the time to shoot that way.

    i am having a blast with my R-D1, but it will never replace my GRDII for shots on the street. period. i already kind of knew that, but my time in NYC solidified that fact... it's a different way of shooting, but once you're able to make it yours, it's priceless!

    eta: those actions i told you about do beautiful b/w conversions, especially for skin tones.
    Cam,
    It is more a sense of pullng up the file and saying s**t how do I work with this file. There just is more you have to deal with and reorient your workflow a bit. So, not comparing per se but just thinking about workflow.

    The actions are quite interesting to me. I just wish they were for Lightroom!

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by mwalker View Post
    Mitch got it right but he had secrets. I wish he was still around.

    oh Terry, that cheese burger shot makes me hungry.
    Agree (with the first bit, not hungry right now).

    Also many of the photos in Mitch's series were shot with a film Leica. And wheras I was not serious about comparing the quality of GRD output with that of the M8, it certainly isn't far fetched to compare it with the film Leicas.

    But in any case, comparing image quality is not the all important thing, because image quality is not all important. For me it is the character of the GRDs that I fell in love with. Ended up replacing my Nikon D80, which I used once in a blue moon, with the GRDI, and later GRDII, which I carry around all the time.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    There is one more thing I wanted to say.

    I use the GRD II 90% for B&W, even though I'm happy with my B&W conversion most of the time. This partially has to do with the fact that the color on the small sensors is a very problematic thing. Comparing, say with certain D80 shots, there is just no contest. Some of the color shots could not be taken with the GRDs in a thousand years. There is just too little color gradation to make it work as a believable reproduction of the richness of color in real life. Now, the GRDI gave appeal to color photos via a very special oversaturated look. The GRDII jpegs are c**p, and I've not been able to reproduce the color look of the original GRD in raw conversion.

    The sharpness of the lens is phenomenal, and I guess this is the reason why the shots are loosely speaking comparable to the film leicas, as I mentioned earlier. And, in my opinion, are easily better in this respect than the D80 with the kit lens.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Ah yes. Meant to say "NOT happy with my B&W conversion". Sorry.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Terry, LightZone plays very well with small-sensor files, especially in B&W. Mitch and I both use it.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    There is one more thing I wanted to say.

    I use the GRD II 90% for B&W, even though I'm happy with my B&W conversion most of the time. This partially has to do with the fact that the color on the small sensors is a very problematic thing. Comparing, say with certain D80 shots, there is just no contest. Some of the color shots could not be taken with the GRDs in a thousand years. There is just too little color gradation to make it work as a believable reproduction of the richness of color in real life. Now, the GRDI gave appeal to color photos via a very special oversaturated look. The GRDII jpegs are c**p, and I've not been able to reproduce the color look of the original GRD in raw conversion.

    The sharpness of the lens is phenomenal, and I guess this is the reason why the shots are loosely speaking comparable to the film leicas, as I mentioned earlier. And, in my opinion, are easily better in this respect than the D80 with the kit lens.

    I hear you about JPEGS in GRD
    As regards color; I find some of the best color work with the GRD comes from playing with strong and large areas of bright color.
    Almost Surreal instead of Real.
    Crayon instead of Watercolor if you will.
    However, I really feel what the GRD First Gen does best
    is B&W jpegs.
    Love the creamy, sparkling tonal range it can produce.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by mwalker View Post
    Mitch got it right but he had secrets. I wish he was still around.

    .
    what happened to Mitch? Did I miss something (damn this pesky work...)?

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    There were a couple of contentious threads about his art and street photography in general, I think he got bored and left. I don't know where he went from here. I have conversed with him some via email but I miss his input to this forum.
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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    what happened to Mitch? Did I miss something (damn this pesky work...)?
    He seemed to be globetrotting - work getting in the way of fun, perhaps?
    Sláinte

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    All his images posted on Flickr lately have been from Namibia, presumably he is busy there and will re emerge here when he is back? All his new images posted are landscapes and wildlife shots with the D300, and are really good of course.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    I've emailed with him since then, he's been back from there for couple of weeks now.
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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    I hear you about JPEGS in GRD
    As regards color; I find some of the best color work with the GRD comes from playing with strong and large areas of bright color.
    Almost Surreal instead of Real.
    Crayon instead of Watercolor if you will.
    However, I really feel what the GRD First Gen does best
    is B&W jpegs.
    Love the creamy, sparkling tonal range it can produce.
    Very nicely put, and I agree completely with the first part (I've never used the B&W in camera conversion on the GRDI, so don't know). In fact, a good proof of this point is in the 4 park photos I posted in the London thread. The first is taken with a Nikon D80, and the richness of color tones is superior to the other shots, which are with a GRD. This is clear even on the small jpegs. And I think if the GRD photos were shot with the nikon, they would look better, since the grd doesn't add much esthetic value in the way it erases the color info for these photos. But often it does, especially in the situations you describe.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Just an example of a shot that I think works only because of the crazy GRD colors.

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    Re: Ooops I did it again

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    Just an example of a shot that I think works only because of the crazy GRD colors.

    sizifio, exactly what I meant
    The GRD of both generations can produce lovely, subtle color, but not so well as larger sensors.
    But they glory in intensity; a different palette indeed!

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