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Thread: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Talking GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Been a little discussion about the merits of one over the other in the San Juan thread. I just received my GRD2 yesterday and have a GX100 arriving in a few days, having traded my D-Lux3. (FTR, to my eye in reviewing my initial GRD2 images at least, I feel the D-Lux 3 still offers an edge in overall image quality, however the GRD/GX have more intuitive control layouts and offer higher ISO, both considerations for me in a pocket camera.) Anyway, I thought it might be fun to open up a thread where we can discuss the merits of one versus the other versus both working together, or heck versus any other comparable camera...

    I know the first reaction might be who really needs more than one small camera, but the reality is several of us own several of these tiny wonders in addition to larger cameras.

    I'm taking both out this weekend as my only cameras (!) on a family trip to Lake Tahoe and will hopefully get a few images from each camera that are worthy of posting here.

    So let the fun begin!
    Jack
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Sounds good to me i want to get one of them so love to hear folks thoughts
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Jack,
    I will watch for your results avidly, I am still very tempted by the GX100, esp since their prices have fallen a bit.
    I have taken my GRD as my only camera on trips; it is quite freeing and I never felt constrained by its limitations even with just the native lens.

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    wbrandsma
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Excellent Jack! Congrats with your new purchases. I think both cameras make a great pair. And the price of the GX100 in particular is very tempting at the moment.

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Wow, how nice to have both! I would love to get just ONE! Can't wait to see your results, Jack.
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    I have a DLux3 and am (still) pondering a GRD2. If I only could have one I'd probably opt for the zoom. While I love a good prime (and tend to have a 35mm ltd macro most of the time on my Pentax K20d), for a walkabout there are times that I need the lens to do the legwork that I can't. So if I had to have one between the GX100 and GRD2, I'd have to vote GX100.

    But, I'm figuring on keeping the DLux3 and adding the GRD2. The reasoning being that the GRD2 gives me a different native aspect ratio, better/closer macro, no lens cap (more pocketable), and a different look. Only through use will I be able to tell if the fixed lens is a blessing or a curse. While I know what I like with my dslr I find that "pocket" is different, and my eye is different, so I'll have to play with it to see.

    It'll be interesting to see what you come up with. Maybe I should just break down and call Tony at Popflash...

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    I have a DLux3 and am (still) pondering a GRD2. If I only could have one I'd probably opt for the zoom. While I love a good prime (and tend to have a 35mm ltd macro most of the time on my Pentax K20d), for a walkabout there are times that I need the lens to do the legwork that I can't. So if I had to have one between the GX100 and GRD2, I'd have to vote GX100.

    But, I'm figuring on keeping the DLux3 and adding the GRD2. The reasoning being that the GRD2 gives me a different native aspect ratio, better/closer macro, no lens cap (more pocketable), and a different look. Only through use will I be able to tell if the fixed lens is a blessing or a curse. While I know what I like with my dslr I find that "pocket" is different, and my eye is different, so I'll have to play with it to see.

    It'll be interesting to see what you come up with. Maybe I should just break down and call Tony at Popflash...
    When I shoot the M8 in the city I usually go out with just camera and the one lens. What that is all you have, you make it work. When I picked up and started using the GRD2, I just didn't miss the zoom....at all. It will be interesting when you do get a GRD/GX to see your reaction the the user interface. I have the D-lux3 and thought it was pretty good

    All that being said, next time I see Jack I will have to swipe his GX100 for a test drive.

    Finally, there are a couple of used GRD2's at Popflash

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    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Will you carry both all the time or sometimes just one? With both to hand it would be interesting to see how often you use the flexibility of the zoom lens, with just the GRD2 it would be interesting to see if you ever feel restricted.

    Looking forward to hearing and seeing the results.

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Hi Jack,

    I too would be interested in seeing your images and reading your opinions.

    Have a nice weekend with your family.

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Will you carry both all the time or sometimes just one? With both to hand it would be interesting to see how often you use the flexibility of the zoom lens, with just the GRD2 it would be interesting to see if you ever feel restricted.

    Looking forward to hearing and seeing the results.
    Exactly the idea behind this thread -- with both at hand, which will I grab? It's also why I traded off my D-Lux to get the GX, so the UI would be similarly attractive in both cameras. (The D-Lux is fine by itself, but not similar to the Ricoh control layout -- and I knew I'd never use the little Leica again with the GRD handy.) With my shooting style, I suspect he GRD will get preference since I like the simplicity of fixed focals and the 28 FOV to begin with, but we'll see...

    PS: I actually found a little P&S case yesterday that had a divider and would hold both cameras and a spare battery, but I couldn't bring myself to buy it and actually carry them that way.

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    This will be interesting. So I guess we have to wait till Monday for the verdict after the field test.

    Vid

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    When I shoot the M8 in the city I usually go out with just camera and the one lens. What that is all you have, you make it work. When I picked up and started using the GRD2, I just didn't miss the zoom....at all. It will be interesting when you do get a GRD/GX to see your reaction the the user interface. I have the D-lux3 and thought it was pretty good
    When I go out with my dslr usually only take the lens that is on it, and lately it has been either 35mm or 77mm ltd primes.

    All this peer pressure forced me to order a GRD2 from Tony. Who knows, maybe it'll show up tomorrow or Saturday.

    I blame you all...

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Hi Jack, I'm very much looking forward to your thoughts on this comparison. Regards, Amin

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Hi Jack
    I'll be really interested in your impressions. Have a great time!

    My GX100 came into it's own last night - we went to see Canadian singer Feist at the Royal Albert Hall last night (3 hour drive), I had the M8, nocti and 75 'cron packed away . . . .but I forgot to turn the M8 off, and the bag must have been pressing . . . no spare battery . . . . damn!

    So these were with the GX100

    here's the hall . . . . I told that guy to keep still!


    this is the band - the lighting was pretty subdued


    sometimes it's tough to sleep after the long drive - sitting in bed and fiddling with the camera:

    (chandelier from Murano, cobwebs from Suffolk )
    . . . . and yes, we do have a bath in our bedroom.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quick update. GX100 just arrived. All in all, very similar UI to the GRD, but not exactly identical, especially settings options, but close. First thing I notice is the incredibly long write time for a single RAW, totally locking the camera up until done. With the GRD, you get two before it needs to write. Next, you cannot set the GX100 to a square format raw as you can the GRD, only a square jpeg. But the rest seems pretty darn similar, and it's similar enough all over I'm convinced I did the right thing to make the trade, superior image quality of the D-Lux3 not withstanding.

    I'll try and do some quick IQ and ISO comparisons tomorrow and get some examples up.

    And FWIW: I'll go out on a limb prior to the actual tests and say that as it stands, if I could only keep one it would be the GRD2. So let's see if I have to eat those words in the upcoming few days

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    PS: Jono, those concert hall images look pretty darn good to me!
    Jack
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Quick update. GX100 just arrived. All in all, very similar UI to the GRD, but not exactly identical, especially settings options, but close. First thing I notice is the incredibly long write time for a single RAW, totally locking the camera up until done. With the GRD, you get two before it needs to write. Next, you cannot set the GX100 to a square format raw as you can the GRD, only a square jpeg. But the rest seems pretty darn similar, and it's similar enough all over I'm convinced I did the right thing to make the trade, superior image quality of the D-Lux3 not withstanding.

    I'll try and do some quick IQ and ISO comparisons tomorrow and get some examples up.

    And FWIW: I'll go out on a limb prior to the actual tests and say that as it stands, if I could only keep one it would be the GRD2. So let's see if I have to eat those words in the upcoming few days

    Cheers,
    I'd also be interested in your opinion - I too have both. I don't want to prejudice you with my thoughts, but I'd suggest that both have a tendency to overexpose, and that -0.3 to -0.7 compensation helps. And I think that the jpgs turn skies a sort of cyan colour, rather than blue - when comparing the dngs and the jpgs.

    Have fun!
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Bigger , smaller what . Damn I almost hit a button today and did not know which one so i cut my finger off just to play it safe. i like the idea of a zoom but long time to write bugs me.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    i like the idea of a zoom but long time to write bugs me.
    Patience, so they say, is a virtue, and virtue is a grace...
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Patience, so they say, is a virtue, and virtue is a grace...
    Hmm yes . . . and long write times are a piss off!
    But - although the GX100 isn't that quick, it's less than half the time of the original GRD (better with a fast card as well).

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    virtue is a grace...
    And grace is a little girl who...
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Jack
    I'll be really interested in your impressions. Have a great time!

    My GX100 came into it's own last night - we went to see Canadian singer Feist at the Royal Albert Hall last night (3 hour drive), I had the M8, nocti and 75 'cron packed away . . . .but I forgot to turn the M8 off, and the bag must have been pressing . . . no spare battery . . . . damn!

    So these were with the GX100

    here's the hall . . . . I told that guy to keep still!


    this is the band - the lighting was pretty subdued


    sometimes it's tough to sleep after the long drive - sitting in bed and fiddling with the camera:

    (chandelier from Murano, cobwebs from Suffolk )
    . . . . and yes, we do have a bath in our bedroom.

    Nice concert shots Jono
    And, as you saw, small is nice sometimes, at least as a Backup

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    But the rest seems pretty darn similar, and it's similar enough all over I'm convinced I did the right thing to make the trade, superior image quality of the D-Lux3 not withstanding.
    So you think the IQ on the DLux3 is better than the Ricohs?

    My GRD2 should show up in a day or so. I'll shoot it back to back with my DLux3.

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    So you think the IQ on the DLux3 is better than the Ricohs?

    My GRD2 should show up in a day or so. I'll shoot it back to back with my DLux3.
    It's just my initial impression that the D-Lux3 IQ is (was) better -- meaning I see what to my eye looks like a bit more DR, a bit better color straight out of the camera and perhaps a bit more detail rendered in the final images. However I don't want to go on record saying that since I traded my D-Lux3 for the GX100 and don't have the two to compare directly. It would be great if you shot a few comparatives and posted them to see if my impressions are correct.
    Jack
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    When I go out with my dslr usually only take the lens that is on it, and lately it has been either 35mm or 77mm ltd primes.

    All this peer pressure forced me to order a GRD2 from Tony. Who knows, maybe it'll show up tomorrow or Saturday.

    I blame you all...
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    It's just my initial impression that the D-Lux3 IQ is (was) better -- meaning I see what to my eye looks like a bit more DR, a bit better color straight out of the camera and perhaps a bit more detail rendered in the final images. However I don't want to go on record saying that since I traded my D-Lux3 for the GX100 and don't have the two to compare directly. It would be great if you shot a few comparatives and posted them to see if my impressions are correct.
    Hi Jack
    I shot with both the D-Lux3 and the GX100 for some time - I think I agree with you, the D-lux just about takes it . . . . but for convenience and useability, the Ricoh certainly seems far ahead.

    Now all they need to do is to produce something like the Gx with a much bigger sensor.

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    I had them both for a time. Both nice little cameras. GRD2 is easier to pocket and quicker to get a shot with - no lens cap. I think the AF is a bit faster with the GX100 in low light, if I remember right. Image quality is close, but I like the GRD2 better. I don't much care for zooms,(except for that silly Nikkor 17-35 that's been calling to me for a few years and that Zuiko 11-22 -haven't caved in yet) so I kept the GRD2, but I made some good images with the GX and if there was no such thing as a GRD2, then I think I would have a GX100.

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Okay, here are some ISO comps. Poor I admit, but I waited until it was dark.

    First image is the full frame shot (GRD2) at ISO 400 for reference:



    Here are a set of hand-held versions all taken with as close to same settings I could get, strait out of ACR with no adjustments, no added NR and no added sharpening. Lenses both at 28mm, NR OFF, f4. The "sharp" ISO 1600 images were only 1/6th sec shutter speed, 800 1/3 and 400 2/3 sec, hence the blur... Top row is the GX, bottom is the GRD, left is ISO 1600, center is 800 and right is 400. This is a screenshot of 50% crops all lined up in CS3. Interestingly, I did have camera stabilization on in the GX; the GRD2 doesn't offer it and yet shows less movement in the images. Weird:



    I think the story is pretty obvious, but ISO 1600 is usable (barely) with the GRD2, but not at all with the GX100. ISO 800 is also much cleaner on the GRD2, while ISO 800 on the GX100 is almost equal to the GRD2 at 1600. 400 is pretty good on both -- the shutter speeds were very slow, but the noise is visible in the shadows and while the GRD2 is better, the two are pretty comparable IMO for all practical shooting purposes, especially in a P&S.

    Other points of note:

    1) The GRD2 has a much better and more accurate color straight out of the camera.

    2) The GRD2 displays a more accurate LCD image.

    3) And the biggie, the GRD2 writes its full-sized raw in about half the time the GX100 does...

    Color and exposure comps tomorrow during daylight at ISO 100.
    Jack
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    TESTING RESULTS
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    LOVE YA GUY ....... You are soooo Whacked
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Interesting I missed this last night. Cooperative doggie!

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
    LOVE YA GUY ....... You are soooo Whacked
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    Best compliment in a long time . Thanks Helen
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    The RAW write time is about 5.5 sec. on the GX100 and about 2.25 sec. on the GRD2, is that correct?

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Charles,
    The GRD has a bit of a buffer and you can get two consecutive shots off before you hit the wait time. The write time after two shots is not problem. I've only had a couple of instances when I was waiting on the camera.

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Hi Charlie:

    Yes, that's about right, but as Terry says, you can have two images in the buffer on the GRD2 and only one on the GX100.

    Terry: Yep -- my Lab, when tired, barely moves

    Cheers,
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    OK, thanks. My point & shoot, the Oly C8080 (not quite pocket-sized) has a 13 sec. write time, so timing is everything. I don't remember how many you can shoot off before the buffer fills.

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Here is a size comparison since that was mentioned earlier too. Note I snapped this under my print viewing station at the office this morning and not under my lights, so apologies for the quality and the seam First thing I'll point out in addition to the obvious size difference, is the wrist strap mounting locations. On the GX100 you have a loop slot on each side of the camera at the top. On the GRD2 you have those as well as one at the bottom right looking from behind -- as I have it mounted here. A small point, but with the wrist strap mounted low right, it is totally out of the way of your fingers and camera controls when actually carrying and using the camera -- nice little touch Richo!



    PS: I have the finder for the GX100 but didn't bother mounting it. IMO it makes the camera enough larger to push it out of the realm of P&S size...


    Cheers,
    Jack
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Here is a DR torture test, shooting from shadows towards bright blue sky.


    First here is the GX100 version. Lens at 50mm setting, the way I'd carry if shooting with it and the GRD2's 28. Both cameras were set to full raw, normal color, spot AF, AWB, AE - Auto, no exposure comp on camera. I had to pull this GX100 shot back -.65 on exposure in raw to match overall exposure of GRD2 next. I think the GX100 does need about -2/3 permanently dialed in on EV since it tends toward over-exposure:



    Here is the GRD2 shot, strait out of the camera, AWB, AE and no exposure comp:



    As is obvious, the GRD2 holds more DR as it holds the bright sky; has far superior color in the sky -- GRD2 is true blue where GX100 is heavy cyan lean in the blues and magenta lean to the gray asphalt; and the GRD2 clearly has better auto exposure -- in fact GRD2 is spot on for this image situation while GX100 needs a -2/3 EV added to camera. In a real situation, I would have to mess with WB on the GX100 image to get it right, but would be able to use the GRD2 file as-shot.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    ACR or Lightroom conversion?

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    These are all ACR conversions, but FTR LR uses the same parameters if you keep both programs updated.

    Okay, couldn't live with the color above, so made some default setting changes to the GX100; I set EV to -.7 and WB to "Outdoors" (yes, that's what it's called on the GX100). Now the base color coming out of the file is quite good, at least in a n outdoor situation, and auto exposure is much better. Here is a follow-up shot taken this time at the 28mm lens setting from slightly forward of where I was before. However it is now about an hour later and smoke from a nearby brush fire has blown in and added significant haze. All in all, this is far more "true" to the scene than the above AWB/0 EV version and totally acceptable to me:

    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Torture test 2. Someone needs to pick it up a notch
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    My business partner is so subtle!

    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Hell i may just a used one. LOL

    BTW partner nice testing , you know i COMPLETELY trust your opinion.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    LOLOL! Yep, I know

    Here is a quick grab at lunch with the GRD2 in snap-focus and square mode. It was DARK in this restaurant. Hand-held, ISO 400, 1/18th sec wide open at f2.4, first one as shot -- color and lighting are dead-on for that room:



    Here I pushed the shadows way up and converted to B&W in ACR -- why we shoot raw:



    And here is about how I'd process this for a final. An impressive amount of ability to push these files around. Most impressive for a P&S:



    Oh, and the look is because the waiter had just told him they were out of the dish he wanted
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    That is our famous Jim Collum. I think he needs a espresso. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Perhaps he just needs a GRD2!

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    Senior Member ShiroKuro's Avatar
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    GO GREEN !!!!

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    I'm captivated by Jim's less than pleased expression in contrast with his "happy" penguins.

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShiroKuro View Post
    GO GREEN !!!!
    Charley
    are you possibly biased
    w/a grd1 & 2

    and YEA !!! GO GREEN GO

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    Re: GRD2 v GX100, shootout or an ideal pair?

    Quote Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
    Charley
    are you possibly biased
    w/a grd1 & 2

    and YEA !!! GO GREEN GO
    Second that.

    But seriously, for me the crispness of the prime comes through in most of these comparisons. The GRDII definitely really hits a sweet spot with the combination of lens and sensor.

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