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Thread: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

  1. #1
    Mitch Alland
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    GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Using SNAP focus mode and MULTI exposure metering mode I've run into very bad shutter lag because of the metering. Today I was in a market where it was generally fairly dark, with splotches of very bright light coming in; in other words, a contrasty environment. Trying to shoot I couldn't predict when the shutter would trip. This has happened to me several times, but I have not noticed a pattern and find it unpredictable. Has anyone else run into this, and is there a solution?

    ŚMitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  2. #2
    wbrandsma
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Hi Mitch
    Have you also had this with the GRD and GX100? I must admit I hardly use the snap mode, but had no problems so far with my GX100.
    (Thankx for the link on dpreview)

  3. #3
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    No, Wouter I have not had this with either the GRD or the GX100.

    ŚMitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    i've had this as well and it is *very* annoying (it's nice to know i'm not the only one). i haven't quite figured it out yet, but got a temporary respite by using spot metering. then again, some of my pics were way off because of this.

    hopefully this can be resolved with an update. it seems like it should since neither the GRD or the GX100 has this issue.

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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Hi Guys,

    I also had this a couple of times when using snap focus and normal metering. I switched to spot focussing and metering and no more problems.

    I now use my GRD on AV f5.6, spot focus and metering and all seems fine and produces the results I want.

    I am a little concerned that this has transitioned across to the GRD2 but I am sure it is something we can all work around and those short Raw write times and better image quality overshadow this for me (Mitch, I know you have used snap focus for a long time so hope you can find a suitable workaround).

    This is going to be a good constructive site that appears to be well monitored by quality photographers interested in their art and the people who join the site to discuss it - great, thanks and long may it continue.

  6. #6
    wbrandsma
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by iansky View Post
    This is going to be a good constructive site that appears to be well monitored by quality photographers interested in their art and the people who join the site to discuss it - great, thanks and long may it continue.
    I fully agree with you iansky.

  7. #7
    Walt
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Mitch-

    I have not had anything like this on my cameras, either of the II's. I'm wondering if it's the snap setting. You can accomplish the same thing by using "manual focus" and setting the pointer to just below the "3" (and you can have that position come up automatically in either of the "MY" settings). I am wondering if the snap setting is aperture dependent and once the light is read the camera is confirming or setting the snap distance for the aperture or if, just in general, the snap position is confirmed each time you fire the shutter. Incidentally, I also use aperture priority mode, so the aperture is generally fixed outdoors at 4.0 or so.

    Shutter lag is completely unacceptable for our kind of work and I couldn't tolerate that.

    Walt

  8. #8
    Walt
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Mitch-

    I was out all day today shooting with the II, exteriors and interiors, about 300 frames. I did not have a single instance of the delay you describe. I was shooting at ISO 200 and 800, all with aperture priority, manual focusing and matrix (or whatever it is called) metering. I had not a single instance of a shutter lag. I did, two or three times, have the RAW buffer fill, but this was rare. I do find the reliability of the metering in this matrix mode to be unusually accurate and consistent--very, very few misexposures.

    I did notice that with the aperture at 4.5, the shutter speed will run up to the maximum (for this aperture) of 1/1410 and the camera will then just overexpose. Since I am using a finder, there is no warning about this. So this is something to watch.

    Walt

  9. #9
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Yes, Walt, I'll have to try manual focusing instead of SNAPO, as someone above suggested.

    ŚMitch/Huahin
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  10. #10
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Hi Mitch,

    And the other option, of course, is to just go to manual exposure so the camera has no exposure work to do. I usually use these cameras in manual focus, manual exposure mode.

    Cheers,

    Sean

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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    And the other option, of course, is to just go to manual exposure so the camera has no exposure work to do. I usually use these cameras in manual focus, manual exposure mode.
    it's impossible to set manual exposure if you're on the street, moving fast. one minute you've got bright sun, the next you're shooting in shadows. i know setting exposure is quick on this camera, but not enough to capture the moment...

    for now i've got it set on Spot metering, for better or for worse.

    off to read how to set MF as i seem to be inept today. it would actually be nice to be able to set it to focus closer than snap for those close encounters. i've had one too many reverse-bokeh shots...

  12. #12
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    it's impossible to set manual exposure if you're on the street, moving fast. one minute you've got bright sun, the next you're shooting in shadows. i know setting exposure is quick on this camera, but not enough to capture the moment...

    for now i've got it set on Spot metering, for better or for worse.

    off to read how to set MF as i seem to be inept today. it would actually be nice to be able to set it to focus closer than snap for those close encounters. i've had one too many reverse-bokeh shots...
    Impossible? You're joking, right? Much of the best small format camera photography ever made was done before auto-exposure was introduced. Leica's rangefinder cameras didn't even have meters for a long time and didn't have auto exposure until the most recent model. I've been photographing people in public places for over 25 years using manual exposure. How do you think Winogrand, Frank, Levitt, Koudelka, Kertesz, HCB, etc., etc. all did this?

    Your second point, perhaps unintentional, about the ergonomics is interesting. The Ricoh cameras have the best exposure controls I've seen in a SSC other than the Leica D2. But manual focus/manual exposure work is exactly where I find them to be painfully slower than my M8 or R-D1. This could change. They are good but they could be even better tools for photographers who want very fast access to shutter speed, focus, aperture and ISO.

    One advantage most of the photographers I mentioned above had (or still have in the case of those who are still working) is that they were not/are not fussing with LCD menus to change key settings.

    Cheers,

    Sean
    Last edited by Sean_Reid; 9th December 2007 at 07:52.

  13. #13
    sammysbar
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Mitch-

    I had not a single instance of a shutter lag.

    Walt
    Hi Walt and everyone. Having been redirected thru 2 sites to get here(hope this is the correct contunuation of the thread) and since "total shooting time" is paramount for me, I thought I'd venture a post.

    I've been following Mitch's work for quite some time; and,while I thought I would wait for everyone's final conclusions on the GR-Dll, your comment about "not a single instance of shuttter lag" has me questioning a preliminay conclusion of maybe just getting a film rangefinder until more powerful processor's become available. I do remember reading somewhere that in snap mode on an earlier Ricoh (maybe the GR-D) the processing time was .28 of a second and that's not acceptable for me.
    Some people consider .28 of a second no problem, so if anyone has done any testing even just a gut feel it would be very helpful.

    Thanks Sammy

  14. #14
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Gut feeling... if manually focused and exposure set manually, the Ricohs and the D-Lux cameras can respond almost instantly. That said, none of them is quite as fast, yet, as a film RF or a DRF. But with a little practice, a lot of photographers seem to be able to get the better SSCs to trip the shutter at the desired moment.

    Cheers,

    Sean

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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    Impossible? You're joking, right? Much of the best small format camera photography ever made was done before auto-exposure was introduced. Leica's rangefinder cameras didn't even have meters for a long time and didn't have auto exposure until the most recent model. I've been photographing people in public places for over 25 years using manual exposure. How do you think Winogrand, Frank, Levitt, Koudelka, Kertesz, HCB, etc., etc. all did this?

    Your second point, perhaps unintentional, about the ergonomics is interesting. The Ricoh cameras have the best exposure controls I've seen in a SSC other than the Leica D2. But manual focus/manual exposure work is exactly where I find them to be painfully slower than my M8 or R-D1. This could change. They are good but they could be even better tools for photographers who want very fast access to shutter speed, focus, aperture and ISO.
    i wasn't joking. i should have added that it was for ME. i am very new to this and have none of your expertise. i am aware of what great photographers are capable of. i'm also aware of what i'm capable of. i am learning more each day. exposure is still one of my crosses to bear, so much that i put my GRDII back into JPEG so i could set the bracket until i get a handle on it. it is definitely way more sensitive in that way than the original was.

  16. #16
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    i wasn't joking. i should have added that it was for ME. i am very new to this and have none of your expertise. i am aware of what great photographers are capable of. i'm also aware of what i'm capable of. i am learning more each day. exposure is still one of my crosses to bear, so much that i put my GRDII back into JPEG so i could set the bracket until i get a handle on it. it is definitely way more sensitive in that way than the original was.
    If you want to, you can practice with manual exposure and you'll find that you'll get much faster over time. One way to learn, if you want to, is to stick with either a certain shutter speed or aperture for a couple hours (and a set ISO) and guess at the other exposure setting you need to make. Then look at the histogram and see how far off you were. As you do that more and more, and refine your accuracy, you may find that you can start to see about where your exposure needs to be, just as photographers have done over a hundred years now. Its all practice. Sometimes, it helps to start in aperture or shutter priority mode and watch what the camera is doing. I often use the camera's settings as my starting point.

    Automatic features in cameras can be nice to have but sometimes its even better not to have them or use them.

    Cheers,

    Sean

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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    thank you, Sean. will do. i've been assigning myself tasks each day, but that was one i dreaded. i'll have to use aperture priority as the GRD doesn't have shutter priority (which i personally would prefer). tomorrow, unto the breach.

  18. #18
    Walt
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    Gut feeling... if manually focused and exposure set manually, the Ricohs and the D-Lux cameras can respond almost instantly. That said, none of them is quite as fast, yet, as a film RF or a DRF. But with a little practice, a lot of photographers seem to be able to get the better SSCs to trip the shutter at the desired moment.

    Cheers,

    Sean
    Sean and Cam,

    I would also say "instantly," but not quite as instantly as the M8, whatever that means. It is instantly enough in my experience and certainly nothing like what I think Mitch describes. I would add that I generally use the aperture priority because I find it very facilitating in my work to not think about exposure, unless the light is very consistent and then manual exposure becomes easier. I am finding the aperture priority with matrix very accurate, consistent and fast on this camera. By contrast, the M8 metering requires much more attention and the convenient EC rocker switch of the Ricoh would be doing a lot more to earn its keep on the Leica. (I'm thinking of prying the little switch off the Ricoh and gluing it onto the M8. Do people think that would work?)

    My objection to manual exposure with the GRD is the necessity of holding the camera away from the face to see the meter scale, although you could learn to twirl the two wheels with the camera at your face. Ricoh has dropped the selectable wheel rotation direction on the GRD I, which is too bad because the aperture control is now like a Nikon rather than a Leica. If I'm just going to eyeball exposure, which I did for decades with the film M's, then I'm going to have a lot of misexposure because these cameras do not have the latitude of Tri-X.

    The manual focusing, of course, is a must for shutter response. As a matter of fact, if the scale indicator is to be believed, the auto focus on this camera appears to be *completely* useless on both my samples of the camera. If "autofocus" on this camera means setting the scale to a hyperfocal position, perhaps something is working, but I don't think so. Fortunately, even wide open, precise focusing is not necessary because of the DOF of this little lens.

    The shot below is from the II yesterday, ISO 200 at 5.6 and 1/2000. I would have been better to go to ISO 100. Lens diffraction here was clearly visible during PP.

    Walt

  19. #19
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Hi Walt,

    That might partly explain why you prefer the ergonomics of the GR 2 and I prefer those of the M8. I still work in manual exposure mode much of the time so I am constantly tweaking aperture and shutter speed (hence, the beauty of an aperture ring and shutter speed dial). I definitely do not like needing to check an LCD screen to focus, set aperture and set shutter speed (though the Ricohs do better than most).

    As for the latitude, I often feel more comfortable with my own exposure choices than with those made by either the M8 or the Ricohs. Its certainly possible to work as you and I did with film cameras, especially since we now have histograms available as needed.

    Best,

    Sean

  20. #20
    Walt
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    Hi Walt,

    That might partly explain why you prefer the ergonomics of the GR 2 and I prefer those of the M8. I still work in manual exposure mode much of the time so I am constantly tweaking aperture and shutter speed (hence, the beauty of an aperture ring and shutter speed dial). I definitely do not like needing to check an LCD screen to focus, set aperture and set shutter speed (though the Ricohs do better than most).

    As for the latitude, I often feel more comfortable with my own exposure choices than with those made by either the M8 or the Ricohs. Its certainly possible to work as you and I did with film cameras, especially since we now have histograms available as needed.

    Best,

    Sean
    Sean-

    Yes, I like the aperture priority in the Ricoh, because the exposure seems so consistently well calculated. (I do almost always use an EC of -0.7 at ISO 200 and -0.3 at ISO 800). In my 300 shots yesterday and another 200 today, I have two frames misexposed. The aperture priority in the M8 is not as useful because it has an odd pattern and does not expose consistently. Anything very light or dark along the midline of the frame can throw it way off. Thus I would most like to use the M8 metering for manual exposure, but I think it is badly setup in not seeing the shutter speed in the finder and in not seeing how far off you are until within a stop of the "correct" reading, at which point the arrows start twitching back and forth. Ditto for taking a reading in aperture priority (which allows you to see the shutter speed in the finder) and then locking something in with the shutter dial. You have to remove the camera from your eye, just as with the Ricoh in manual, unless you want to count 11 clicks or something on the shutter dial. So my preference would be for good auto exposure or good ergonomics for manual exposure, and I can't see that the M8 accomplishes either of these. Among the four possibilities (auto or manual in each of the two cameras), the Ricoh in auto seems the sleekest and fastest. Whatever they're doing with their "matrix," they're doing it surprisingly well.

    Is there other input about Mitch's original question, the shutter lag?

    Walt

  21. #21
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Hi Walt,

    Different strokes...I actually find the M8's metering to be quite good and it gives me faster access to exposure controls than any other digital cameras I've used. Some day we will meet up and put both cameras in an exposure change race <G>. In any case, I'm happy that the GR II is working out so well for you.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  22. #22
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    I'll second what Sean said about the M8. It really is the camera I've been looking for, for quite a while.

  23. #23
    Walt
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Sean and Maggie-

    Well I haven't thrown my two M8s in the garbage yet, but I don't get your relationships to this camera and can't imagine how I ever could. I couldn't even sell these two cameras in good conscience unless it was to someone who really, really, really knew what he was getting into. And it would be a total "as is" deal. This is from a guy who used a pair of M4s from 1967 to 1998 and thought they were fine and never gave them a thought. After one of my M4s was stolen, I got a "replacement" M4-2 and after a year and a half of trying to get Leica Canada to make the camera working reliably, I did actually throw it in the garbage and bought a used M4. Some things in life are not worth the aggravation at any cost.

    Just reviewing an image on the Ricoh screen and not having it jump back and forth is a breath of fresh air, forget actually shooting with the camera.

    Walt

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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    My M8 has been quite good to me- maybe that's because I got one in August of this year, with the then-current firmware. I've had one lockup and I hardly ever chimp, so the "crazy wheel" never bothered me much. FWIW, I don't see "crazy wheel" since the last firmware update. Mine, knock wood, just seems to work and fits my way of shooting.

    I like rangefinders and my M8 makes gorgeous files. Heck, I'm still thrilled that I don't have to wait to finish a roll of film to shoot either indoors or out!

    If I had a camera as balky as the two you've got, I may very well be singing a very different tune.

  25. #25
    asabet
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Using snap mode on the GX100, I also have a shutter lag due to metering. It isn't excessive, but it's longer than I would like. I sometimes address it by using a half press to set the metering and holding it that way until the moment presents itself. At other times, I shoot in manual mode, but for mixed lighting I find that the half press method is quicker and more reliable.

  26. #26
    Walt
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    Using snap mode on the GX100, I also have a shutter lag due to metering. It isn't excessive, but it's longer than I would like. I sometimes address it by using a half press to set the metering and holding it that way until the moment presents itself. At other times, I shoot in manual mode, but for mixed lighting I find that the half press method is quicker and more reliable.
    I normally use the half press if I have any time at all before a shot, not so much to lock the exposure, but to make the release smoother and faster--faster just because there's less distance to travel. So maybe this is why I never notice a delay.

    But do you see this in manual focus too? When you say "manual mode" I assume you are referring to aperture and shutter settings. I'm wondering if the aperture priority metering can take that much time. Is not the aperture and shutter in this camera one set of blades that open to a certain size aperture for a certain period of time? If that is true, there should be no delay in actuating the blades, just the exposure determination time. Does anyone know how this works?

    Walt

  27. #27
    Walt
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    My M8 has been quite good to me- maybe that's because I got one in August of this year, with the then-current firmware. I've had one lockup and I hardly ever chimp, so the "crazy wheel" never bothered me much. FWIW, I don't see "crazy wheel" since the last firmware update. Mine, knock wood, just seems to work and fits my way of shooting.

    I like rangefinders and my M8 makes gorgeous files. Heck, I'm still thrilled that I don't have to wait to finish a roll of film to shoot either indoors or out!

    If I had a camera as balky as the two you've got, I may very well be singing a very different tune.
    Maggie-

    I'm curious if you come from film M's and if your rangefinder experience is 35mm or larger format rangefinders. If I were coming from a 6x7 rangefinder I'd probably find the M8 more svelte. I'm sure that part of my dissatisfaction with this camera is the inevitable expectation that it function like an M film camera. I am aware that digital cameras are more complex, but there are certain things that I expect to carry over from the film cameras--the accurate frame lines, smooth shutter release, etc. My only other experience with "35mm" digital cameras are with the small Canon SLRs and, though I don't like SLRs, I found these cameras seamless and refined in their operation. I may not have liked what they were, but they were what they were with a certain excellence and consistency. So this is another set of expectations that I come to the M8 with. The Ricoh is like the Canons in this regard--it seems a refined, well-executed, mature design albeit with some details I'd like to see done differently.

    Walt

  28. #28
    asabet
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I normally use the half press if I have any time at all before a shot, not so much to lock the exposure, but to make the release smoother and faster--faster just because there's less distance to travel. So maybe this is why I never notice a delay.
    That would explain it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    But do you see this in manual focus too? When you say "manual mode" I assume you are referring to aperture and shutter settings. I'm wondering if the aperture priority metering can take that much time. Is not the aperture and shutter in this camera one set of blades that open to a certain size aperture for a certain period of time? If that is true, there should be no delay in actuating the blades, just the exposure determination time. Does anyone know how this works?

    Walt
    Walt, I haven't used manual focus very much. Either setting the exposure manually or using a half press addresses the lag when using snap focus, so I assume the lag is due to exposure determination.

  29. #29
    sammysbar
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Thank your Sean, Asebet and Walt for your responses. I would have answered sooner but had to read the entire “Continuation” thread first. Your answers were right on the mark for me.
    Walt, regarding your question about manual mode and aperture priority - I do not have the answer nor do I think you will find the answer directly in the following links; however, these links might be helpful.
    The first link: is a recent New York Times article entitled, ‘Seizing the Moment.’ You will have to register, but it’s free and no spam. The second link is the CIPA draft of definitions.(see Draft E-1 No. 43, Shutter release time lag and No., 44 Shooting time lag.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/te...gewanted=print

    CIPA Specifications Guideline for Digital Cameras: Email: Digital ...
    Latest News Reviews / Previews Camera Database Timeline Buying Guide Sample Galleries Discussion Forums Learn / Glossary Feedback Newsletter Links RSS Feeds ...
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/article...raftspecsguide - 7k - Cached - Similar pages


    Thanks again. I hope this information is new and helpful- the CIPA link is something I found on another website so it’s probably well known, the NYT’s link is something that’s automatically emailed and maybe not everyone has seen it. Sammy.

  30. #30
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Sean and Maggie-

    Well I haven't thrown my two M8s in the garbage yet, but I don't get your relationships to this camera and can't imagine how I ever could. I couldn't even sell these two cameras in good conscience unless it was to someone who really, really, really knew what he was getting into. And it would be a total "as is" deal. This is from a guy who used a pair of M4s from 1967 to 1998 and thought they were fine and never gave them a thought. After one of my M4s was stolen, I got a "replacement" M4-2 and after a year and a half of trying to get Leica Canada to make the camera working reliably, I did actually throw it in the garbage and bought a used M4. Some things in life are not worth the aggravation at any cost.

    Just reviewing an image on the Ricoh screen and not having it jump back and forth is a breath of fresh air, forget actually shooting with the camera.

    Walt
    Hi Walt,

    I imagine this particular conversation could go on forever. Clearly, the M8 suits some people better than others and, beyond that, there's really little that can be generalized. I get weary of reading the M8 constantly criticized but, fortunately, here the discussion is mostly going to be about other cameras.

    Perhaps the concerns about the M8 could be discussed in the M8 forum here?

    I should be able to start testing the GR II in earnest in a couple of weeks and I'll try to look at the lag questions.

    Cheers,

    Sean
    Last edited by Sean_Reid; 10th December 2007 at 07:26.

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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Walt, I used to shoot a Nikon F3, and an Olympus OM-2 (only at work, as a staff writer/photographer, we had to use the paper's equipment) for most of my work, but also had a Canon GIII QL (my first 35mm camera) and an Olympus XA. There was a period where I really didn't do much shooting, save some GIII and SX-70 work (I got burnt out) and the Polaroid eventually got replaced by a couple of Canon digital Elphs, which eventually got replaced by my D-Lux 3.

    So, what you've got with me is someone who remembers shooting with an F3, but who got used to digital point-and shoots and then stepped up to the small sensor Leica and then, wanting a digital camera that felt like a "real camera" got an M8. If Nikon had a "digital F3," I probably would have gone with it. I like manual controls and a shutter with zero lag. The M8 is really the only game in town and it's like an even better version of my GIII.

    Speaking of medium format, I've got a 645 lying in a closet...I wonder if C1 makes a back for it? Ooops! We can carry this conversation on in other threads. Sorry Sean.

  32. #32
    Walt
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    That would explain it.



    Walt, I haven't used manual focus very much. Either setting the exposure manually or using a half press addresses the lag when using snap focus, so I assume the lag is due to exposure determination.
    Amin-

    On your last point, unless the snap focus is a hyperfocal distance, and thus dependent on aperture. I'm not sure how it works. In that case, you would have to have a reading before focus could be set. I wasn't clear on that reasoning and if snap is just a particular distance then it's obviously not that.

    Walt

  33. #33
    Walt
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    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    Using snap mode on the GX100, I also have a shutter lag due to metering. It isn't excessive, but it's longer than I would like. I sometimes address it by using a half press to set the metering and holding it that way until the moment presents itself. At other times, I shoot in manual mode, but for mixed lighting I find that the half press method is quicker and more reliable.
    Amin,

    I've been out photographing this morning and deliberately not going to the first stop but using a single push all the way through. I still have no delay at all. I do, incidentally, have the shutter sound turned on so that I can hear it, and it is this sound that I am largely using to determine firing, though I do not see off-timing when I look at the images either. So, I'm not sure what's going on, but the snap setting is the one operational difference I see here. If it is a fixed position, then it offers nothing over manual exposure and if it's a hyperfocal one (and changing with aperture), it's probably going to have a delay. Can you try manual focus just for your experience on this?

    Walt

  34. #34
    Walt
    Guest

    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Walt, I used to shoot a Nikon F3, and an Olympus OM-2 (only at work, as a staff writer/photographer, we had to use the paper's equipment) for most of my work, but also had a Canon GIII QL (my first 35mm camera) and an Olympus XA. There was a period where I really didn't do much shooting, save some GIII and SX-70 work (I got burnt out) and the Polaroid eventually got replaced by a couple of Canon digital Elphs, which eventually got replaced by my D-Lux 3.

    So, what you've got with me is someone who remembers shooting with an F3, but who got used to digital point-and shoots and then stepped up to the small sensor Leica and then, wanting a digital camera that felt like a "real camera" got an M8. If Nikon had a "digital F3," I probably would have gone with it. I like manual controls and a shutter with zero lag. The M8 is really the only game in town and it's like an even better version of my GIII.

    Speaking of medium format, I've got a 645 lying in a closet...I wonder if C1 makes a back for it? Ooops! We can carry this conversation on in other threads. Sorry Sean.
    Maggie-

    Yes, that's a different background with cameras and a different expectation in many ways. What we have in common is that I also expected the M8 to be "a real digital camera," by which I had a Leica M in mind, I now realize. I'm finding the GR-D a real camera and I suspect that that is hard for many people simply because of its size and, yes, also a few of the compromises that are dictated by that size (particularly the menu driven contols that would be better done with physical controls). Image wise it's at least as real as any film Leica loaded with Tri-X or, at ISO 200 or lower, Plus-X. I would not be at all be surprised if Ricoh, a customer-centric company apparently, is considering something more like a real camera based on the GRD concept. I can't wait.

    Best,
    Walt

  35. #35
    sammysbar
    Guest

    Re: GR-D II exposure metering lag?

    Re: manual focus using hyperfocal and aperture priority:

    Could it be the same time as the time reported for a half to full press lag (using external viewfinder)? For the GR-D according to dpreview that is: .03.
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ricohgrd/page4.asp

    Unfortunately, I have no idea if this is correct, simply assuming manual focus overrides the AF time. (Full press lag (using Snap AF) amounts to .2.Thus AF in this mode amounts to .17) Anybody really know for sure?

    Based on Walt’s experience with the GR-DII as reported above, assuming I understand his preliminary conclusions, the time for manual focus using hyperfocal very well may have been improved.

    While waiting for the reviews anybody know if this formula for determining total shooting time in manual focus is correct for the Ricoh and might it work for other cameras as well? Thanks again. Sammy

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