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Thread: Noise Galore

  1. #1
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    Noise Galore

    I was wondering what people may think of this experiment with GRDII noise. This is from a very underexposed photo which I almost discarded, not a lot of pp. I liked it, chroma noise and all.
    Last edited by sizifo; 1st September 2008 at 10:58.

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    Re: Noise Galore

    And a cleaner versions.

  3. #3
    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    Looks like Tatoo Art / Fun!!
    WILD Sizifo.... You're A Noise Junkie
    What are you under the Influence of ?

    I think it would be COOL for the beginning shot of a Film
    Best- h

  4. #4
    ntrolls
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    Re: Noise Galore

    Definitely interesting. I know it is somewhat contradictory, but I'd love to see a bit brighter version of this technique.

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Quote Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
    Looks like Tatoo Art / Fun!!
    WILD Sizifo.... You're A Noise Junkie
    What are you under the Influence of ?
    Thanks. I think it's the detergent from doing my washing.

    ntrolls.

    It's not a technique, just what was captured by the sensor, dodged to make it a bit brighter. The ghosts of electricity in the underexposed grd. The only thing I can do is make the face and legs even brighter, but there isn't much more in the photo. Well, there's a bit more in the surroundings, Ill have to think about it.

    I'll post the photo which this comes from later; it was shot in blazing sunlight.

    Here is a brighter version.

  6. #6
    VladimirV
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    Re: Noise Galore

    I quite like it, looks surreal and like a painting.
    Have you tried it in b&w?

  7. #7
    ntrolls
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    Re: Noise Galore

    What I meant was that it would be really interesting if you can obtain the same noise effect without underexposing the whole dark areas - which is of course contradictory by definition. Interesting nonetheless - I think I will try to reproduce the same thing

  8. #8
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    Thanks. I think it's the detergent from doing my washing.

    ntrolls.

    It's not a technique, just what was captured by the sensor, dodged to make it a bit brighter. The ghosts of electricity in the underexposed grd. The only thing I can do is make the face and legs even brighter, but there isn't much more in the photo. Well, there's a bit more in the surroundings, Ill have to think about it.

    I'll post the photo which this comes from later; it was shot in blazing sunlight.

    Here is a brighter version.


    Wasn't sure what I thought of it till this version but this one I really like. It reminds me of a painting by one of the old masters, Rembrandt perhaps, before the restorers got involved and spoiled it!

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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    Well, ok. To be honest, I'm not crazy about this. BUT, what comes through for me is the way even this badly exposed image reveals how powerful simple gesture can be in telling a story. The angle of her foot and the position of her hands and arms. His face and eyes. There's a tension there. Unfortunately, because of the lack of detail, it's impossible to know if she's propositioning him or asking him to bring the car around.

    As always, I bring my own preconceptions and prejudices to every party. Unfortunately.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Will's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    And there was me thinking it was two women chatting over a coffee.

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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    And there was me thinking it was two women chatting over a coffee.
    You could be right!

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Thanks a lot for the replies. I will reveal the identities of the actors bit by bit...

    TRSmith, I wouldn't say I'm crazy about this effect, but I like it. It's like you can see the electrons dancing on the sensor, giving you the bare minimum. And it's amazing how few pixels we need to discern a facial expression. Although the initial impression is: "turn on the light".

    The person on the right is a man, but with a rather peculiar boyish face.

    Also, TRsmith, here is something else that came to mind. I was wondering what your philosophy is, given that you very often talk about a photograph as if it should tell a story. This is something I don't really believe. Recently I've found this video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl4f-QFCUek, about Winogrand, and he expresses an interesting view around 1:32, which I can't help but agree with.

    So, let me first reveal nothing at all. This is the original photo - not exactly a keeper. I only took a second look at it because I knew there were very interesting looking people in the darkness, even though i completely f...d up the exposure.

    Vid

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirV View Post
    I quite like it, looks surreal and like a painting.
    Have you tried it in b&w?
    Yes. It doesn't work for me.

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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    You may have helped me discover something about myself since you seem to have picked up a theme in my comments about photographs telling a story. I'll have to think about that. Maybe I do (?!)

    I have seen that video, and I agree with his assessment of what a picture can and can't do. However, it is at least a part of my own nature (as I said in the last line of my post about bringing my own preconceptions.... etc.) to look at a picture and fill in my own story. Especially when people are involved. I wonder how interesting the shot would have been if the glowing pixels in the gloom revealed the outline of a bicycle instead of a woman's leg?

    Certainly there are images of people that are simply shapes and color or light and dark. But most people-pictures inspire a little story in my head. I can't help it. It's destined to be different than anyone else's story. And that's different than saying "every picture must tell a story".

    It's possible the shape and form in this example is butting up against my own understanding of what a "good exposure" is and then tangling with my own penchant for making up a story. Like I said, that's on me.

    So there's no need for you to justify that you like it or prove to me that it's worthy. You took it, you own it. But I see it and, in the sort of reverse of that process, own my own reactions to it.

    In any case, it's all good. I didn't mean to come off sounding preachy or critical.


    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    Thanks a lot for the replies. I will reveal the identities of the actors bit by bit...


    Also, TRsmith, here is something else that came to mind. I was wondering what your philosophy is, given that you very often talk about a photograph as if it should tell a story. This is something I don't really believe. Recently I've found this video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl4f-QFCUek, about Winogrand, and he expresses an interesting view around 1:32, which I can't help but agree with.

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    Re: Noise Galore

    TRSmith, you've always had some of the most interesting and insightful things to say about what I've posted, so please keep doing it, whether I sound defensive or not.

    It seems an almost impossible task to produce a single original photograph, and completely impossible to come up with an original style. For now I'm just trying to experiment and do things my own way, without listening to others too much. Initially! Then when somebody tells you otherwise it's much easier to appreciate their opinion. And there's nothing wrong with keeping the original impulse in mind, if it was worth anything.

    That's my five minutes of philosophy.

    Here's a photo that reveals some identities. The guy with the hat and the lady on the right are in the grainy photo.

    Incidentally, I've had some serious problems in reducing the flare. This is by far the best version I've managed so far. Any tips?

    If this looks a bit different than my other B&W conversions, it's because I've tried to use some of the ideas in Wouter's tutorial. Plus, some dodge&burn, & local contrast, which is all completely new to me.

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    I wonder how interesting the shot would have been if the glowing pixels in the gloom revealed the outline of a bicycle instead of a woman's leg?
    I imagine it would be a lot less likely to work, since the human forms are so much more imprinted in our brains. I mean, we are able to recognize different expressions from so little, or, in case of guys, imagine parts of the female anatomy .

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post

    It seems an almost impossible task to produce a single original photograph, and
    completely impossible to come up with an original style.
    Roger that. Wonogrand said something to the effect of trying to avoid taking the same photographs over and over. That's what makes it fun, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    Incidentally, I've had some serious problems in reducing the flare. This is by far the best version I've managed so far. Any tips?
    If you're working in photoshop, you might try making a copy of the layer, do a curve adjustment on it that takes the flare way down to where you want it. That will have the unwanted effect of making the rest of the shot too dark, so use a gradation on the adjustment layer mask from top right to lower left (or some angle that works) to leave the non-flare portion correct. (it's always easier to do than it is to describe, sorry).

  18. #18
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    Re: Noise Galore

    Thanks for the explanation. I think I get the idea, and will give it a try as soon as I get some time.

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    inspired by Sizifo...... 'Some After Dinner Noise' /RD1s

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    or is B&W more interesting....Your Call

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Helen I think the color version is really good ...
    Her is one from the other night of the full moon ....
    Last edited by ShiroKuro; 30th October 2009 at 06:54.

  22. #22
    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    Thanks Charley- I prefer th colour as well

    Yours is an ominous & foreboding shot.......well done

    best-H

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Ok

    we are talking small sensor, noise and artist allusions... i have already pimped this to hell on flickr .. but there is a certain rembrandtish thing oing on from this G9 bar shot

    bigger files at
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinpa...72428/sizes/o/

    cheers
    Last edited by kevinparis; 20th March 2009 at 11:55.

  24. #24
    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    Its GREAT Kevin
    like watching an old Foreign Flick....Wonderful Character
    glad you've 'pimped' it here

    Cheers! H

  25. #25
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    Foreign?... didnt you know Europe is actually all monochrome and grainy? we spend a fortune faking up those post cards you get :-)

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Helen,
    I really like the dreamy, moody look of the photo in color. Nice.

    Kevin,
    I love the characters in this photo. Super capture.

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Some very noisy recent photos.

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    Re: Noise Galore

    And some that are even more noisy.

    Hope the MF people are not looking. This could cause permanent retina damage.

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    Ok

    we are talking small sensor, noise and artist allusions... i have already pimped this to hell on flickr .. but there is a certain rembrandtish thing oing on from this G9 bar shot

    bigger files at

    cheers
    BTW. This is a lovely shot. Missed it previously.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    Back in the ´60s and ´70s, I sometimes used a quaint submini called the Tessina (worth a long story in itself; for purely technical ingenuity, it was unique...). TriX souped in Rodinal...

    Results looked a lot like some of these images... perhaps I should dig out some old neg and scan them....

    OTOH, seems more tempting to experiment with today´s tools than doing archaeology...

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Quote Originally Posted by Per Ofverbeck View Post
    Back in the ´60s and ´70s, I sometimes used a quaint submini called the Tessina (worth a long story in itself; for purely technical ingenuity, it was unique...). TriX souped in Rodinal...

    Results looked a lot like some of these images... perhaps I should dig out some old neg and scan them....

    OTOH, seems more tempting to experiment with today´s tools than doing archaeology...
    I would love to see these. Electric noise vs. chemical noise. If you get the time, I'll be looking forward to it.

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Some long exposure noise.

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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    This is actually shot through a screen door. In the full res image you can just tell that it's a screen, but in the jpeg it looks an awful lot like noise. I think I like it but I don't think I can salvage it.

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    Who needs to salvage.....
    Love it Tim !!

    Sizifo:
    Beautiful Colors & Softness of Light in 'Long Exposyre Noise'

    Best- H

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    Re: Noise Galore

    This is again some extreme experimenting. First I massively overexpose, and then use the Aperture recovery tools to bring stuff back. The boost slider is of major importance! It is sort of the opposite of going for a film like look - the idea being to make make the digital, electric noise, come out. Of course, I'm just waiting to hear that the results are very film-like

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Self portrait. The second is a correctly exposed image of the same subject.. to compare.

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    Member Rick Waldroup's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    I really like the B&W shots the best. I think the noise works for most of them, especially the flickr shot you linked to. Nice stuff. Here is a self portrait I shot a few years back with a Contax G1 rangefinder camera. The film was TMax 3200, which I then processed in Rodinal which increased the grain even more. Still, it looks as though I have a bit tighter grain structure than you do with your increased noise shots.


  38. #38
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    and higher acutance too...

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Rick, I can guess what you mean by tighter grain - but am not 100% sure? So, what do you mean by "tighter grain"?

    Rick, Streetshooter: Are you referring to the last images I posted, or also to the much earlier ones - cause I never linked to a flickr file. Or are you talking about my photos at all ?

    The grd can produce sharp looking images with high noise - see e.g. the second one in post 27. However, that photo also exhibits banding, uncalled feature of the digital sensor which in most cases ruins a photo. Most of the other ones give a lesser impression of sharpness due to camera shake, or post processing. On a lot of the earlier ones I'd lift the black point slider way higher now.

    In general, I do agree that film grain is much better than what can be achieved with digital, but it's worth seeing what can be done.

  40. #40
    Member Rick Waldroup's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    sizifo, yes, my mistake. The flickr photo was posted by Kevin and I thought it was you. By tighter structure, I simply mean that the grain is not as "clumped together" or as prominent in the shot as the noise- what we used to call "popcorn grain." Not that this is a bad or good thing- it is just different.

    I really like the most of the shots you posted with the experimentation with noise. They add a certain air of immediancy and also mystery to the shots.
    Last edited by Rick Waldroup; 6th April 2009 at 15:24.

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Another experimental one.

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    Member Rick Waldroup's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    I like this one. It almost has a 3-D look to it. I think, here, the noise really does work to your advantage.

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    Re: Noise Galore

    It was just a snapshot while playing with the camera. But yes, I thought it sort-of worked.

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    Re: Noise Galore

    These didn't quite work how i wanted, needed more exposure, but never-the-less. Comments welcome. (GRD II)




  45. #45
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    Re: Noise Galore

    GRDII iso1600. Not much pp - just a red filter b&w conversion.



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    Re: Noise Galore

    with this one i'd work a bit to bring out the contrast between the button face and the real sleeper.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

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    Re: Noise Galore

    Thanks for the comment wayne.

    Not sure if I can even check what this would look like. Since the face and coat are very close in color (lots of yellow) and I'm horrible at photoshop. Plus, these iso1600 files fall apart very quickly.

    Here's a different version anyway, with the face more emphasized, and a bit more contrast in the blanket and coat.


  48. #48
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    Re: Noise Galore

    here's what i was thinking of.

    wayne
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    Last edited by smokysun; 10th February 2010 at 10:39.

  49. #49
    Senior Member ShiroKuro's Avatar
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    Re: Noise Galore

    GRD2 @ 1600

  50. #50
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    Re: Noise Galore

    really nice. that gritty noise feel adds a lot. certainly in the tradition of modern japanese photography.

    wayne
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