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Thread: shots of a smoky sun

  1. #51
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    I've been thinking about getting one of these long zoom small sensor cameras, for the times the grd is not suited. The ones that seem a bit special are this one, s6000. And perhaps the olympus c-8080. Any other suggestions? Newer olympuses/fujis? Anything else, leicas??? I really know almost nothing about these types of cameras.

  2. #52
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    I've been thinking about getting one of these long zoom small sensor cameras, for the times the grd is not suited. The ones that seem a bit special are this one, s6000. And perhaps the olympus c-8080. Any other suggestions? Newer olympuses/fujis? Anything else, leicas??? I really know almost nothing about these types of cameras.
    I only know directly the two Fuji's I have; the S5200 and S6000fd, love them both obviously.
    The Oly C8080 is highly regarded, Marjoli the war correspondent carrys(ied) two in his work if that tells you anything.
    The auctions sites have them still fetching $$$ so that in itself is a recommendation.
    There is part of me that lusts for the Big 2/3" sensored Fuji S100fs.....

  3. #53
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    lili, don't know if you know, but lightroom will work with the fuji raw (and lightroom 2 just released). recommended.

    ah, as for the best intermediate camera, that opens up my desire to write a whole essay on the subject.

    now, if you're going to turn photos into paintings, frankly it doesn't matter what you use. that process ends any worry about noise, resolution, etc. 4 meg jpegs transformed can be blown up into billboards.

    however, straight digital photography presents difficulties (as we all know) with small cameras.

    i have or have had in this middle range: canon g3 and g5, sony 717, leica digilux 2, and the fuji s6000.

    operation-wise, they operate slowly and have lots of noise at iso 400. except for the fuji. it's fast generally and 800 iso perfectly usable with some noise-reduction. you can get results even at 1600.

    that said, i love all these cameras. each gives a distinctive look and color. the g3 will give you sharp 3d type pics with a certain kind of intimacy. the leica makes elegant portraits (great lens), the sony very distinctive in its colors. all of these have a 2.0 lens. makes up for the lack of high iso in lots of cases.

    alas, the fuji 2.8. but balanced by the high iso. also the only one with a ten time zoom. (all shoot raw and all read rather slowly.) it's a more painterly camera. read flat or graphic images. that's one reason i like it.

    my advice is go to www.keh.com and look through the used digital cameras. all the older cameras like the g3 a great bargain. they give a two month warranty and 14 day return. you can try them out and send them back. there's no substitute for this, as your own predilection is the ultimate judge.

    above 6 megs all cameras in this range deteriorate, in my view. go to www.pbase.com and do their camera search. you can see literally thousands of pics taken with these older cameras. i bought the leica because it was obviously (to my eye) distinctive.

    new cameras are a lot faster in operation, so it depends how important that is to you. www.dpreview.com has reviews of every camera you can think of.

    anyway, this has been my experience. i've been tempted by the olympus 5050 more that the 8080 for it's faster lens. but i can't make myself work with one more camera system!

    best,
    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

  4. #54
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Wayne,
    I can see what your mean about how the fuji renders images, I find it extremely pleasant to work with.
    Your advise about reviews and posted images is well taken.
    For me however nothing quite beats actually using a camera to decide how I like the way it feels and the images it produces so your advise about keh is spot on.
    As regards the high mp Fuji S100fs, I wish Fuji would make a camera that compliments it much as the S6000 did the S9000/9100 series; that big sensor with say 6-8mp would simply rock esp if they used a faster lens with a short zoom range.
    Dream on....

  5. #55
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    here's a new camera coming out that promises a lot!

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0807/08...z28.asp#images

    my experience with panasonic has been good in good light and a disaster in lowlight.

    i expect a quantum leap in sensor technology at some point. then size may not matter so much. here's hoping.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 28th September 2008 at 09:26.

  6. #56
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Thanks a lot for the advice. It was very helpful, and especially going through the pbase photos.

    So, I've bought the s6000 on ebay, simply for the look of the photos - except that 90% of people on pbase seem to overexpose them.

    I still have a nikon coolpix 5000 that I like a lot. And Wayne, I think I agree with what you're saying quite a bit. Looking at older small sensor digital photos, the low pixel count gives them a certain natural look (for lack of a better word) that turned to a kind of smearing for a long while as time as the pixel count got bumped up to rediculous densities. However, the technology seems to be catching up. The original GRD has a great look, as does the GRDII.

    The other thing about those old digicam photos is that they - well - scream digital in some ways. Note that I'm not contradicting myself here w.r.t the previous paragraph . I think this mainly comes from the way the highlights are blown, and from the way high contrast areas are rendered. But, this can also look good, in moderation, and I think I see this sort of quality in the fuji s6000 - but not in the newer ones. My impression of the s6000 photos was that they possess a nice combination of the above qualities (digital artifacts, low pix. den), with colors rendered like on some seventies slide film (excuse the complete lack of knowledge about film).

    The Leica and olympuses also looked very good, and the optics definitely seemed superior to the fuji. However, they are also bit uninteresting. What I was looking for was something specific to old small sensors, and a bit crazy in this respect. Not necessarily great optics. I also look forward to the huge zoom for the times when the exactly opposite camera to the grd is needed.

    Now, the handling: I hope it is not as bad as I expect. The new fujis look plasticky and the handling doesn't seem that great. And compared to the GRD I think almost everything has to be a disappointment. One must enjoy the camera, and I guess I'll decide once it comes. Can always sell it on.

  7. #57
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Thanks a lot for the advice. It was very helpful, and especially going through the pbase photos.

    So, I've bought the s6000 on ebay, simply for the look of the photos - except that 90% of people on pbase seem to overexpose them.

    Yes, for the S6000 I generally give a -2/3 stop exposure

    I still have a nikon coolpix 5000 that I like a lot. And Wayne, I think I agree with what you're saying quite a bit. Looking at older small sensor digital photos, the low pixel count gives them a certain natural look (for lack of a better word) that turned to a kind of smearing for a long while as time as the pixel count got bumped up to rediculous densities. However, the technology seems to be catching up. The original GRD has a great look, as does the GRDII.

    At least as far as jpegs go, the GRD II insist on noise reduction even when it is 'off'

    The other thing about those old digicam photos is that they - well - scream digital in some ways. Note that I'm not contradicting myself here w.r.t the previous paragraph . I think this mainly comes from the way the highlights are blown, and from the way high contrast areas are rendered. But, this can also look good, in moderation, and I think I see this sort of quality in the fuji s6000 - but not in the newer ones. My impression of the s6000 photos was that they possess a nice combination of the above qualities (digital artifacts, low pix. den), with colors rendered like on some seventies slide film (excuse the complete lack of knowledge about film).

    In jpegs at 100% you may well see the artifacts, esp at hi ISO. RAW done through anything other than Finepix Studio will not have this look, being quite sharp, to get the colors I think you are looking for, try the "Chrom" color setting; it supposed to be like Velvia

    The Leica and olympuses also looked very good, and the optics definitely seemed superior to the fuji. However, they are also bit uninteresting. What I was looking for was something specific to old small sensors, and a bit crazy in this respect. Not necessarily great optics. I also look forward to the huge zoom for the times when the exactly opposite camera to the grd is needed.

    Now, the handling: I hope it is not as bad as I expect. The new fujis look plasticky and the handling doesn't seem that great. And compared to the GRD I think almost everything has to be a disappointment. One must enjoy the camera, and I guess I'll decide once it comes. Can always sell it...

    The S6000 is plastic, but a very high quality matt-finish plastic. IMHO, it makes it light and easy to carry as well as somewhat lower profile. The UI is NOT GRD level. That being said it's qute good by normal digicam standards.
    Last edited by Lili; 4th August 2008 at 09:55.

  8. #58
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    At least as far as jpegs go, the GRD II insist on noise reduction even when it is 'off'

    I don't exactly remember, but as far as I recall, you are still considering the plunge into raw. So let me be another person to try and persuade you.

    Since getting the GRD II, I've shot only raw, and using raw+aperture, I must say that I'd NEVER go back to jpg. RAw takes things to a whole different level, and the processing is fun, especially after you get the hang of it after a while.

    However, one note. I've sent the GRDII for repairs, and went back to my old GRD I, and then used the GRD I in raw. These files can be pushed a lot less.

    Ignoring for the moment the special look of the GRDI, which of course one shouldn't, the GRDII image quality is "objectively" superior. It's also something special, but in a different way. I suspect, just suspect, that Ricoh may have dropped the ball on jpg a little bit on purpose, to urge people to use raw. sort of like apple dropping the modem port .

    To put it another way, even for raw the number of images that look crappy with whatever the standard raw settings are, but can be pushed to look really good after a bit of practice is seriously near 50% for me. For GRD I the raw pretty much has the special jpeg look, and can't be pushed much. So, it's like ricoh simply gave over the control to the user, and the default is no longer intended to be the end product (and the default jpeg is just crap).

    In jpegs at 100% you may well see the artifacts, esp at hi ISO. RAW done through anything other than Finepix Studio will not have this look, being quite sharp, to get the colors I think you are looking for, try the "Chrom" color setting; it supposed to be like Velvia

    The S6000 is plastic, but a very high quality matt-finish plastic. IMHO, it makes it light and easy to carry as well as somewhat lower profile. The UI is NOT GRD level. That being said it's qute good by normal digicam standards.

    i really look forward to trying this out, the UI, and investigating the jpg vs. raw differences. However, the images I definitely do like a lot. And thanks for the tip.

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Quote Originally Posted by smokysun View Post
    here's a new camera coming out that promises a lot!

    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Is this just a hope or do you have substantial information . I looked at one of these large panasonic cameras a few days ago in a shop, and at least the build is fantastic.

  10. #60
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    sizifo,
    I recently did a comparison of RAW files from the Fuji and GRD, while long the write time is not really an issue for my style of shooting.
    It was nice to have the RAW file as a "negative" or Master and not worrk about PP losing detail/resolution.
    The GRD saves a high quality JPEG along with each RAW file; best of both worlds!
    Now I've to find a decent, and inexpensive, RAW converter for DNG files...

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    on sensors i read a year or two ago kodak had made a break-through. perhaps that was just wishful thinking!

    hope you enjoy the s6000. as i've said i use lightroom (and just bought lr 2). however, lili might be right. using the finepix converter might give different results. i'll have to give it a try. usually i jump from lightroom to paint shop pro and go from there. here's another sample.

    back from four days off. still fire glows in the night and lightning predicted tomorrow.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 28th September 2008 at 09:26.

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Quote Originally Posted by smokysun View Post
    on sensors i read a year or two ago kodak had made a break-through. perhaps that was just wishful thinking!

    wayne
    The 4/3rds stuff sounds like the breakthrough.

    Just one more question for you and/or Lili (or any other s6000 shooter). The camera should arrive in a day or two, and I want to be ready to take photos. It won't come with a card and batteries though. Do you have any tips for a fast card for raw, good set of batteries?

  13. #63
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    The 4/3rds stuff sounds like the breakthrough.

    Just one more question for you and/or Lili (or any other s6000 shooter). The camera should arrive in a day or two, and I want to be ready to take photos. It won't come with a card and batteries though. Do you have any tips for a fast card for raw, good set of batteries?
    If you plan to shoot RAW, avoid the Type M XD cards, get the Rare and more costly Type H's.
    It cuts RAW write times from 8 seconds or so to just under 4.
    Any good NiMH rechargeables work well, eneloops are best

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    second lili's suggestion. amazon has the H cards(1 or 2 gigs). also get a sandisk card reader. much, much faster than going from the camera. second the enloop batteries and recommend the maha charger. these batteries last a long time, but i'd suggest a backup set. the battery door cover has to click in place. i've never had a problem with mine. also you can download the latest fuji converter from fuji. go to their site. if you have lightroom, you're already covered. fuji keeps promising a codex so the raw can be viewed in windows photo library. so far only the thumbnails can be read. to really bone up read the threads on the fuji forum at www.dpreview.com
    let us know how it goes and if you have any more questions
    ps. there are some neat tricks i've only recently discovered. read the handbook for little details.
    Last edited by smokysun; 6th August 2008 at 10:00.

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Quote Originally Posted by smokysun View Post
    second lili's suggestion. amazon has the H cards(1 or 2 gigs). also get a sandisk card reader. much, much faster than going from the camera. second the enloop batteries and recommend the maha charger. these batteries last a long time, but i'd suggest a backup set. the battery door cover has to click in place. i've never had a problem with mine. also you can download the latest fuji converter from fuji. go to their site. if you have lightroom, you're already covered. fuji keeps promising a codex so the raw can be viewed in windows photo library. so far only the thumbnails can be read. to really bone up read the threads on the fuji forum at www.dpreview.com
    let us know how it goes and if you have any more questions
    ps. there are some neat tricks i've only recently discovered. read the handbook for little details.
    Thanks a lot guys. The camera should arrive friday, and I'll get these accessories tomorrow

  16. #66
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Heavily cropped, say 50%
    S6000 RAW done with Finepix Studio
    Not the most elegant of backgrounds, but the light in her eyes....

    28mm EFL F2.8, 1/3 sec, ISO 100, handheld but braced on floor composed uisng LCD

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    fantastic eyes! (i'm a cat-lover) just tried the super macro. here's what i got from a stamp. hand-held. would be sharper with tripod. not cropped.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 28th September 2008 at 09:26.

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Very very good Macro Wayne!
    It is kinda sad to admit, but as much as I love the results my K100d prduces, its so much more fun working with the GRD or the S6000fd.
    Plus, for web viewing or normal size prints, there is little if any qualitative difference
    Last edited by Lili; 7th August 2008 at 08:20.

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    thanks, lili. i suspect most of us will never make big prints, or prints at all, of most pictures. the web seems to be our gallery and museum. take a look at

    http://www.amazon.com/Nash-Editions-...8125975&sr=8-1

    it shows what modern digital printer pros can do with all kinds of material, much of it inferior like old photo snapshots redone (that's how graham nash got into the business).

    for the most part we emphasis equipment over vision. i'm as guilty as anyone. it's fun to explore new machines and products. at some point it seems best to stop and really discover what we already have can do.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

  20. #70
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Yes the Latest and Greatest may be fun, but it is far more productive to actually work with what we have and produce images from hearts, mind, and eye.
    Plus, like you mentioned earlier, one learns the designers of these older cameras included a lot of tricks and features.
    Great fun that is

    Oh and that book ROCKS!!!

  21. #71
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    here's one symbolic of fire season being half over!

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 28th September 2008 at 09:26.

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    strange creatures found in the road during my walks.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com
    Last edited by smokysun; 28th September 2008 at 09:27.

  23. #73
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Wayne, looking good! You make even the litter look good

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    thanks, lili. it's fun to try and see with the eyes of a child. (for example, dozens of dragonflies flitting outside my windows. they must have just hatched. too fast for the camera, alas.)

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    looks like i've used up all my picture space. any way to remove old ones and make room for new?
    thanks,
    wayne
    www/pase.com/wwp

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    ah, i figured out how to delete them! so i've removed a bunch of the earlier ones. however, i've posted them (and more) at www.pbase.com/wwp/smoke these include ones never posted here.

    okay, several new ones. last night's moon. one of the litter shots (the b&w) redone when it blew off the road couple of days later. and clouds from last week. hope you enjoy them.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 28th September 2008 at 09:27.

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    sunrise and mid-day.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 28th September 2008 at 09:27.

  28. #78
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Wayne, both of those are really cool
    Were they done the S6000fd and RAW?
    If so what software?

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    hi lili,
    yes, both with the s6000 and raw. i download with lightroom 2 and then usually save the ones i like as tiffs without doing anything in lightroom. my poison of choice is paint shop XII (it will not read the raw .raf files, alas) and most of the time i use efex pro 3 as my processing plugins. the efex has a wonderful range of things and i find it a lot easier and more interesting than even the lightroom presets i have (numerous). i do a lot of experimenting and tweaking til i get something i like.
    efex at http://www.niksoftware.com/colorefexpro/usa/entry.php? they've a demo and if you qualify you can get an academic discount at www.creationengine.com or www.academicsuperstore.com
    hope that helps.
    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

    ps. i am a plugin collector. check out www.thepluginsite.com

  30. #80
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Thank you Wayne.
    Since the Fuji does RAW so much faster than my GRD, I am using it a lot now and shooting RAW exclusively.
    Not posted anything yet but getting to where I soon will be.
    It is...different for me.

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    These are really great. I received the fuji a while ago, and enjoy using it a lot. However, nothing special to post yet.

    Regarding the raw, I've been forced to use lightroom - normally use aperture, and export the tiffs to aperture.

    I have one question, that I asked in some other thread but nobody answered. Is there an equivalent to the aperture boost slider in lightroom? In aperture this decreases the default raw manipulation, and can give a more natural look, especially for B&W it's priceless.

    BTW, Lili, I noticed that the ricoh forum has "paths roads and highways" for the monthly competition. An easy way for you to win a raw converter.

  32. #82
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Quote Originally Posted by sizifo View Post
    These are really great. I received the fuji a while ago, and enjoy using it a lot. However, nothing special to post yet.

    Regarding the raw, I've been forced to use lightroom - normally use aperture, and export the tiffs to aperture.

    I have one question, that I asked in some other thread but nobody answered. Is there an equivalent to the aperture boost slider in lightroom? In aperture this decreases the default raw manipulation, and can give a more natural look, especially for B&W it's priceless.

    BTW, Lili, I noticed that the ricoh forum has "paths roads and highways" for the monthly competition. An easy way for you to win a raw converter.
    AH I will check it out then, not many response to my posts there lately so I've been remiss in visiting
    Thanks

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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    i hope you do enjoy the results with the s6000. i can't answer your question about lightroom, but this woman seems to know everything. maybe send her your question. she seems very affable:

    http://www.lightroomqueen.com/index.php

    and lili, i agree about your road shots. i felt rather haunted after looking at them! we all drive so much of our lives, the landscape rather like being on the moon. (i don't know how many times i've driven across country, but it's a lot.) do you know this movie or it's director:

    http://www.amazon.com/Alice-Cities-W...9250656&sr=8-1

    it's a wonderful road movie. and this book by a famous french philosopher cracked me up with his jaundiced view of the states as he drove around:

    http://www.amazon.com/America-Jean-B...9250891&sr=8-2

    here's a bit of wildlife.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 28th September 2008 at 09:27.

  34. #84
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    i hope you do enjoy the results with the s6000. i can't answer your question about lightroom, but this woman seems to know everything. maybe send her your question. she seems very affable:

    http://www.lightroomqueen.com/index.php

    Wayne, thanks so much for that link! very helpful info. I do love my Fuji but thelearning curve is steep. I may be folowing a blind path trying to gt GRD results from it. I've realized it is different palette indeed as well and benefits from being used as such. I can do nice B&W with it but the Look is far different from that of the GRD. The colors however, they are enchanting.

    and lili, i agree about your road shots. i felt rather haunted after looking at them! we all drive so much of our lives, the landscape rather like being on the moon. (i don't know how many times i've driven across country, but it's a lot.) do you know this movie or it's director:

    Thank you Wayne. Once I started this project I was driven to complete it. Glad it touches you so!

    http://www.amazon.com/Alice-Cities-W...9250656&sr=8-1

    it's a wonderful road movie. and this book by a famous french philosopher cracked me up with his jaundiced view of the states as he drove around:

    I will have to look at the movie :

    http://www.amazon.com/America-Jean-B...9250891&sr=8-2



    here's a bit of wildlife.

    wayne


    Love the Grouse
    Last edited by Lili; 21st August 2008 at 08:10.

  35. #85
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    ah, lili, so you knew they were grouse. i don't know how they survive up here with coyotes, etc., they seem rather dumb, fat, and slow compared to the quail.

    here's the truck that brings water and the label on a fire-extinguisher that seems to be talking about something else.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 5th October 2008 at 18:29.

  36. #86
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    My Godfather was a Bird Watcher, I spent summers there watching them so I knew them
    My Favorites are the Prairie Falcons

  37. #87
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    figures in the rocks below the lookout.
    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 5th October 2008 at 18:29.

  38. #88
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    more patterns in the rocks.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 5th October 2008 at 18:29.

  39. #89
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    hang-gliders over the tower.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

    ps. more new ones at www.pbase.com/wwp/smoke
    Last edited by smokysun; 12th October 2008 at 09:08.

  40. #90
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Well Done Wayne!
    Straight zoom on the gliders?

  41. #91
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    thanks, lili. yep, straight zoom, no cropping.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

  42. #92
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    the days are shorter and the berries ripe.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 12th October 2008 at 09:08.

  43. #93
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    cowboy.

    i was out on the catwalk practising with a dslr (haven't used it in months) when i discovered a cowboy below. i include a couple here, perhaps as a contrast to the fuji s6000 i've been using.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 15th October 2008 at 09:16.

  44. #94
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    will

    wayne
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    Last edited by smokysun; 15th October 2008 at 09:16.

  45. #95
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    smoke coming out of the west (big fire) this evening.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 15th October 2008 at 09:16.

  46. #96
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    Hi Wayne,

    Just dropping by to say once again what a great collection of images you have compiled in this thread.

    Out of interest, when does the 'fire season' usually draw to an end in California please?

  47. #97
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    thanks, ed,
    been in town the last four days. took some theater photos with the s6000

    www.pbase.com/wwp/auto

    below is one from downstairs taken with the g3.

    i appreciate the visits!

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

    ps. i've had to delete early pictures to make room for new ones. you can see the whole series at

    www.pbase.com/wwp/smoke
    Last edited by smokysun; 15th October 2008 at 09:16.

  48. #98
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    as the sun went down, the moon came up.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 15th October 2008 at 09:16.

  49. #99
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    fall color

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 15th October 2008 at 09:16.

  50. #100
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    Re: shots of a smoky sun

    bear scat and the moon.

    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp
    Last edited by smokysun; 15th October 2008 at 09:16.

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