GRDx: separate cameras or converter lenses?

[Mitch Alland]

When Ricoh announced the 40mm converter I thought that it would have been better for for them to make three separate GRD2 cameras: a 21mm camera, a 28 mm camera and a 40mm camera, the same way that they produced their small film GRs, the GR1 (28mm) and the GR21.

Now I'm not so sure. The advantage of three separate cameras is that each one of them would be smaller than a camera with the converter and adapter (the cylinder), and each would be pocketable. But, then, I wouldn't put three of these cameras in my pockets, at least not in the tropics where one doesn't wear a jacket. I'd end up carrying them in my Domke Reporter's Satchel. This is what I did with my GRD, GRD2 and GX100 when i went to the beach this weekend, and that's why it occurred to me that the converter route may be preferable after all: while the GRD cameras are bulkier with a converter lens they are still very light; and it's a much cheaper solution because the converters are not expensive. It is also cheaper in the longer run if the converters continue to be usable on future GRD version, the way they are on the GRD and GRD2. What do you think?

On the other hand, if separate cameras for different focal lengths could have higher quality lenses than possible with converters, that would be another thing. BTW, I wonder whether a 40mm f/2.4 lens wouldn't be a lot bulkier than the 28mm lens with the 40mm converter?

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

 

[Sean_Reid]

I'm interested in seeing them produce versions of the GR with 28, 35, and 50 mm lenses. Second best would be to make a 40 mm version in addition to the 28. Some of us wouldn't necessarily carry multiple bodies but I myself would prefer to carry a 40 than a 28. For me, its a better focal length. The adapter is useful but the pocket-ability of the camera does get lost. And, in colder climates, some of us do indeed have multiple pockets.

* Of course, these are all EFOV numbers we're talking about.

I'm now in fairly regular contact with Ricoh Japan and this is one of the things I'd like to discuss with them.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Mitch Alland]

On the 28mm EFOV, when I first bought my GRD in July 2006 as my first digital camera I was ambivalent about the 28mm focal length, having, over the years, used it for only a few shots with my M6. But I knew that one of my favourite photographers, Moriyama Daido, used the Ricoh GR1 and GR21 film cameras almost exclusively, which have a 28mm and 21mm lens, respectively. This made me relatively open-minded about the 28mm focal length. And it does take some time to learn shooting with it.

Then, when I bought the GX100 at the end of August I thought that I would mainly use the stepped zoom at 50mm EFOV, which had been my favourite focal length when using the M6. What I've found, however, is that with the GX100 my most used focal length was still 28mm, followed by 24mm and 35mm; and, surprisingly, I've shot relatively little at 50mm.

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

 

[Robert Campbell]

The Japanese public apparently are keen on supplementary lenses - I've no idea why, and presumably Ricoh is responding to this with their convertors. If Ricoh wants to keep their customers happy, I suspect that they won't want to introduce models with differing fixed focal lengths. Personally, I'd like one around 35 - 40 mm equivalent - I find the challenge of 28mm a bit difficult.

Bertie

 

[Lili]

While I *really* like the 28mm as things stand however I would rather like the separate models you suggest.
Carrying and fitting add-on parts is very fiddly.
One with a 40-50mm EFL running f2 would simply rock even if it were less pocketable.
And as pointed out, there is precedent with the GR1/GR21.
Just in imho

 

[Sean_Reid]

That's a good idea Lili. F/2 should be possible with a 40.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[4season]

I think the GRD + auxiliary lenses is something I'd really have to use for awhile before passing judgement, but my gut feeling is that it adds unwanted bulk and complexity to something that I want for it's compactness and uncluttered nature. Besides, my camera bag also contains a Leica M8, and while it's no Ricoh, I like it

Jeff S

 

[clay stewart]

I wouldn't mind a 50 mm lens or a 38 mm on a GRD camera either. However, I can see the extending lens barrel being a problem over time, with dust getting to the sensor and not being able to clean the sensor yourself means at least a few weeks without a camera. I would give up the slimmer design, for small fast interchangeable primes, that you could take off to clean the sensor, as well as being able to put a filter on the front and do away with the lens cap. Plus, not having to wait for the lens to extend and being able to keep the camera turned on in sleep mode, ready at a moments notice really appeals to me. Of coarse I'm just dreaming, but I guess I've been doing that for a few years now.

 

[asabet]

Some of us wouldn't necessarily carry multiple bodies but I myself would prefer to carry a 40 than a 28. For me, its a better focal length.

Same here. 35mm or 40mm would be best for me.

 

[Maggie O]

How much bigger does the adapter make the GRD?

 

[Mitch Alland]

It's lens is fully extended with another 2cm added for the converter lens, so that the camera is no longer pocketable. But it adds little weight.

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

 

[Sean_Reid]

How much bigger does the adapter make the GRD?

I should have a test example of the adapter within a week or so. Ricoh is sending it from Japan as soon as its available at their facility.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

I wouldn't mind a 50 mm lens or a 38 mm on a GRD camera either. However, I can see the extending lens barrel being a problem over time, with dust getting to the sensor and not being able to clean the sensor yourself means at least a few weeks without a camera. I would give up the slimmer design, for small fast interchangeable primes, that you could take off to clean the sensor, as well as being able to put a filter on the front and do away with the lens cap. Plus, not having to wait for the lens to extend and being able to keep the camera turned on in sleep mode, ready at a moments notice really appeals to me. Of coarse I'm just dreaming, but I guess I've been doing that for a few years now.

I've never seen sensor dust become a problem with small sensor cameras. I'm sure its theoretically possible but it doesn't seem to be common.

Cheers,

 

[Robert Campbell]

I've never seen sensor dust become a problem with small sensor cameras. I'm sure its theoretically possible but it doesn't seem to be common.

Cheers,

These were taken with an Ixus 400; there is a mark at upper right. Once it appeared, it stayed on all subsequent pix, and in the same position:

Is this dust?

Bertie

 

[Lili]

Dust is one reason a a fixed lens barrel ala' the Hexar AF would be very nice. A fixed lens barrel with a UV filter and voila' far less chance for dust entry as well fewer moving parts and so less chance of failure.
Dust is one reason that my GRD lives in a little lowepro bag when not in use.
Of course this would compromise the svelte form factor Ricoh has so admirably maintained just as would interchangeable lenses.
Still, if anyone can 'do' an EVIL (Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens) camera well I bet it could be Ricoh!:thumbup:

 

[Mitch Alland]

To me, that negates the concept of the GRD, which goes back to that of the film GR1 camera. And the idea of putting a UV filter on as well is a non-starter for me, but, then, I don't want to get into any religious controversies,

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

 

[Lili]

To me, that negates the concept of the GRD, which goes back to that of the film GR1 camera. And the idea of putting a UV filter on as well is a non-starter for me, but, then, I don't want to get into any religious controversies,

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

Mitch,
As I said in my earlier post, such would compromise the svelt form factor Ricoh have so admirably maintained!
I was speaking from the context of dust protection.
If it were much bigger I would be less inclined to carry my GRD and more likely to carry my K100D.
And that would defeat the whole purpose.

 

[clay stewart]

When I look at the GX100, with the lens extended to 50, 35, or 28 mm, it seems to me that if it was an interchangeable or fixed prime of similar size, it would still easily fit in a shirt pocket and still be much smaller than an M8, XT/XTI, D40, E410, K100, etc. and a prime. It seems like the two most seen complaints are the lens freezing up- extending or retracting- and dust on the sensor. The only remedy I can see for this is interchangeable primes, or a sealed lens that doesn't extend. Don't get me wrong, I like both my Ricohs, just pointing out things that seem like they might be improvements. As far as the GR1 goes, it didn't have the sensor dust to contend with, so the only thing to go wrong with that, for the most part, was the lens barrel jamming.

 

[Lili]

When I look at the GX100, with the lens extended to 50, 35, or 28 mm, it seems to me that if it was an interchangeable or fixed prime of similar size, it would still easily fit in a shirt pocket and still be much smaller than an M8, XT/XTI, D40, E410, K100, etc. and a prime. It seems like the two most seen complaints are the lens freezing up- extending or retracting- and dust on the sensor. The only remedy I can see for this is interchangeable primes, or a sealed lens that doesn't extend. Don't get me wrong, I like both my Ricohs, just pointing out things that seem like they might be improvements. As far as the GR1 goes, it didn't have the sensor dust to contend with, so the only thing to go wrong with that, for the most part, was the lens barrel jamming.

Good points Clay.
Without getting into the 'religous' aspect of UV filters or no ( ), a fixed lens barrel can be a lot more sturdy and far better sealed vesus a retracting one.
Oh, for a digital Hexar AF!!!
But I do see where Mitch is coming from though.
I take my GRD everywhere simply because it is so very good in such a small package.
Minimalism at its best!

 

[Sean_Reid]

These were taken with an Ixus 400; there is a mark at upper right. Once it appeared, it stayed on all subsequent pix, and in the same position:

Is this dust?

Bertie

It sure looks like dust. I myself have never seen it in files from small sensor cameras but I guess its possible. Was it there from the start?

Cheers,

Sean