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Canon Power Shot G-10 Reflections

Lili

New member
I have been thinking much about the G series for a while now.
The G-7/9 was impressive in build and even more so in the controls.
From what I am reading and seeing the G-10 seems to have been expressly designed to meet most criticisms of the earlier versions.
My only complaint ever was the lack of a really wide end on the zoom.
The greater size and weight means that while I cannot slip it unnoticed into a tiny purse like I can with my GRD, it is still far easier to pack than any DSLR, esp given the zoom range.
And it is still smaller than my Hexar AF, which I've carried and shot with everywhere without complaint.
If the G9 I shot with briefly was anything to go by, I bet the G10 will be as physically durable as the Hexar.
Which is always reassuring, any camera I can trust that much is worth its weight ;)
Yes it does have a small sensor with a lot of pixels, however I seem to recall the same being said of the G7 and 9, yet folks still seem to wring excellent images out of them.
Having given away my Fuji F31, have I found myself missing the excellent hi ISO performance when left with my 'noisy' GRD first gen as my Carry-Camera?
No, not at all.
In the case of the Ricoh I *like* the noise, esp in B&W.
The G7,9 and now the 10 all have a demonstrably excellent OIS system which should help me keep the ISO (which I can select by that wonderful ISO wheel) low for those times I do not want noise by allowing sharp shots a slower speeds.
At least in the case of fairly sedate or stationary subjects.
Also, given the lack of vibration by the leaf type shutter in most small sensor cams and in the Canon's case the extra weight and great amount of grip area it should be very much easier to steady the camera.
Even the Mico 4/3's still use a focal plane shutter with has more inherent sound and shake than a leaf shutter.
Unless Sigma (like a DP'x' that is as fast as G9)or Fuji (like a 'digi-Natura') have something Really Cool waiting in the wings, I am VERY likely to "pull the trigger" on a G10
Durable, a Sharp Zoom (28-140mm efl) covering the ranges I use most with any camera I have had, fast RAW write times, and a Superb Analog User Interface; all these spell winner to me.
Just my two cents worth.
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
Lili,

Good post, and I certainly follow your logic. I've been waiting to see what Canon would do with the G10 and some of it makes good sense to me and some doesn't. The controls are certainly well done, but I can't get behind upping the damn MP count yet again on the same small sensor size. Even if we take it that the Digic IV will have better processing, it seems to me that they're constantly shooting themselves in the foot by cramming more and more pixels in. That whole debacle is thoroughly disappointing.

Whereas you lament the lack of a lower end zoom, I'd have liked to have seen a longer maximum focal length. I find that 140mm is just way too short for a carry around camera. The best P&S I've yet seen is the Panny TZ3/5 with 28-280mm reach (but, unfortunately, no RAW). If only Canon would give us a range like that, I'd snap one up immediately.

At the moment I'm being thoroughly spoilt by the Sigma DP1 and although I'm interested to see if Sigma offers anything new, I'm not expecting the kind of zoom range I'd like (and probably no zoom at all if they do offer a successor).

I was really hoping that Canon would take up the challenge and give us a larger sensor in a small body, but I guess they just don't see the market.

Ciao,
 

Terry

New member
I looked at the G7, G9 and didn't get them. Granted we haven't seen results from testing but keep Digic IV and ratchet back the MP and I bet it could be awesome. It is hard for me to believe that the tiny sensor has more pixels than the giant D700.

Canon has said that they didn't do wide angle because of the distortion....since this is a change of lens I would also wait and see how good the lens is.

While I LOVE small cameras, mine will be a G1. I think when people hold it they will be surprised. I frequently take my lens off the Nikon when I put it in a bag. Do that with the G1 and camera plus 3 lenses (14-45, 45-200, and 20 will be a teeny tiny kit.)
 
A

asabet

Guest
Lili, I've had a lot of respect for the G series since way back. They keep refining an extremely good product. I've decided to just work with the DP1, which is quite a special camera in its own right (got prelim ACR support today also :thumbup:). However, if I were in the market for a small sensor compact, I'd have a hard time choosing between the Panasonic LX3 and Canon G10. I'll be shocked if the G10 lens isn't great. While I doubt that the images will show much more noise relative to the G7/G9, I do think Canon is slowly giving away dynamic range as they increase the pixel counts.

Simon, I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing larger sensor compacts from Canon and Nikon before too long. They can't possibly have the zoom range of the G10 without increasing size quite a bit, so I think there will continue to be room for cameras like the G10 after the larger sensor compacts are introduced.
 

Lili

New member
Simon, Amin, Terry
Thanks for your input.
I quite agree that Canon would do far better with the same or fewer MP.
Sadly their Marketing people don't seem to feel free to risk that.
Even Fuji, which had success with the F30/31 gave way to the pressure.
I agree that the LX3 is likely to have better IQ with fewer pixels.
It is a sweet camera from what I've seen.
As is the DP-1.
As lovely a concept as the G-1 is I am right off of even considering interchangeable lensed cameras for now.
To understand where I am coming from;
I've just gone through living H*ll with my K100D and Dust.
And get told by techs that all DSLR's suffer from the this.
"At least once a month you need to wet-clean the sensor"
And one-thankfully-small-and-hidden-in-the-corner-dot will NOT clean up.
My Pentax is retired for now until I calm down a bit or decide to EBay it and I am using the GRD and the Fuji S6000 (and playing with my Impulse Buy Samsung).
In the meantime I would like a very versatile, relatively compact and fast working camera for those 'non razor' times (those when I need that which the GRD cannot give; longer lens etc).
Since the DP-1 has the same EFL and very much the same mission as my GRD it is a non-starter.
I want a decent User Interface, which the Powershot G7-10 ALL have plus the G-9 and presumably the G-10 write RAW very fast.
The LX-3 writes fast too, but I don't yet about the UI.
It is smaller, but, as I stated earlier, the Canon falls within my acceptable size and weight range and I know they are built like tanks.
 
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smokysun

New member
hi lili,
some complaints on the lens barrel of the g9 malfunctioning and easily bent. advice was to keep the adapter on it.
actually, this is what i'm lusting after today: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos5dmarkII/
since photokina comes next week, we'll have to see what else is new.
wayne
www.pbase.com/wwp

ps. the new self-cleaning dslr's work very well. have never had to clean the xti sensor. i would not buy one without one. so the g1 off the list (and the sensor exposed everytime you put on a lens with no mirror to protect it).
 

Lili

New member
hi lili,
some complaints on the lens barrel of the g9 malfunctioning and easily bent. advice was to keep the adapter on it.
actually, this is what i'm lusting after today: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos5dmarkII/
since photokina comes next week, we'll have to see what else is new.
wayne
www.pbase.com/wwp

ps. the new self-cleaning dslr's work very well. have never had to clean the xti sensor. i would not buy one without one. so the g1 off the list (and the sensor exposed everytime you put on a lens with no mirror to protect it).
Wayne, the G-1 does have a very elaborate shaky dust remover BTW, but the sensor is exposed a lot more, albeit behind the focal pane shutter instead of shutter and mirror on a DSLR.
Maybe I can find a good deal on the K100d Super (same as mine, just has shaky cleaner ;)
As to the G9 lens barrel thing, any retracting lens camera is vulnerable there.
I was already planning to get a Lensmate should I go the G-10 route so your advice is well taken :)
BTW I do no find the 'mere' 6mp of either my Fuji or Pentax to be lmiting at all.
In fact my only complaint with the S6000fd is that it looks too serious sometimes, people see it and get all wierd :cool:
edit; the K200d is weather and dust sealed, has elaborate dust removal and avoidance systems and is not that bad body only...
 

smokysun

New member

Lili

New member
hi lili,
i hate to report it, but it's a good thing i've a backup to s6000. all of a sudden the card would not stay in. seems like the latch-spring broken. the last shot on my smokysun thread taken with the backup, and is more than a hundred percent crop! this pixel business is crazy.
wayne
www.pbase.com/wwp

ps. an interesting thread on the lx3/d-lux 4 on the leica forum:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/63374-lx3-first-impressions.html
Sadly nothing last forever, sorry to hear about your Fuji Wayne
I will check out the LX3 discussion, thanks :)
 

4season

Well-known member
I borrowed a friend's G9 for a week and came away thinking that Canon really did a fine job with the controls, with the possible exception of the tedious manual focus. The combination of live histogram and very good exposure controls makes it so easy to make the most of that small sensor. Sigma should take note.

G10 looks much the same and maybe a bit better. But the Sigma DP1 has spoiled me by raising my expectations of what a small camera can do.
 

hilld

New member
G10 looks much the same and maybe a bit better. But the Sigma DP1 has spoiled me by raising my expectations of what a small camera can do.
Your last paragragh describes my own situation exactly. Since reading about the G-10 I'd more or less decided to go for it, almost sight unseen. And yet, and yet .. there's something about what that pesky DP1 produces that makes me feel that investing further in another small sensor compact seem slightly absurd. So although I would really like to have the zoom/handling/technological benefits the G10 offers, I guess the sensible thing to do is wait and see what the next few weeks brings. I suspect that would really do it for me would news(appearance would be even better) of a DP2 on the horizon.
 
S

SimonL

Guest
The G10 is appealing in every way except the one thing they can't paper over - Image Quality will only adequate to average, especially when ISO numbers are raised
 

kevin

New member
"Tweener" cameras like the Canon G series hold no appeal for me. If I want a truly portable camera, then something the size of Panasonic's LX01 fits the bill. It will literally slide into a pocket. And if I want full manual control, then why not just carry a small DSLR, or an R-D1 with a small lens on it?

If you can only afford one camera, then it has some appeal, but I've given up trying to find one camera that "does it all." :)
 

Lili

New member
I hear all of you that love the Image Quality of the DP-1; from what I have seen I have to concur.
However, it covers that same view as my GRD even if it draws quite differently so it difficult for me to justify buying one :(
If Sigma announces a new model with improved speed and/or a differing focal length then I would consider one.
As to the LX3, it is tempting in so many ways, but I am unsure about how well the User Interface and I will get along :(
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
I hear all of you that love the Image Quality of the DP-1; from what I have seen I have to concur.
However, it covers that same view as my GRD even if it draws quite differently so it difficult for me to justify buying one :(
Lili,

Perhaps the way to look at it is that it will replace the GRD allowing you to perhaps recoup that cost. Of course, having said that, I still have my GRD II (and GX100) as well as the DP1. It's funny, I remember being so excited about the DP1 when it was announced and then when it finally became reality and the first images were posted, I was non-plussed by what I saw, especially in the higher ISO shots. I had virtually written it off and instead upgraded from the GRD to the GRD II.

It was only in the last two to three months that I started to look at the Sigma forum again and found some exceptional images, even at high ISO. (Like any digicam, there are right ways and wrong ways to shoot it at higher ISOs.) That started me doing in-depth research on the camera, including Sean Reid's review and I decided that the quirks and shortcomings of the UI etc, were not going to be show stoppers for the way that I would use the camera. I won't go into the list of "complaints" about the DP1 but will say only that it tends to force one into a more contemplative way of shooting. And, yes, as others have commented, it harkens back to the way we used to shoot with film cameras. While it is definitely not a P&S, it can be used in MF mode every bit as quickly as I shot with my hyperfocal-focussed M8s. And the images... stellar! As excited as I initially get about new offerings like the G10, I then think about the IQ I get with the DP1's sensor (for the size of the body) and I know that I will almost certainly never buy another small sensor camera.

The DP1 has certainly supplanted the GRD II as the (small) camera I reach for. I have the AML-1 "close up" lens for it, and while it doesn't give macro results like the GRDx, it does give some pleasing results. I really have to play with this combination more to see what I can do with it.

With the recent inclusion (albeit in preliminary form) of the DP1 files in Camera RAW 4.6, that hurdle is finally being jumped. (Using the Sigma SPP software, especially on a Mac, is a painful and unnecessary workflow step.) While the DP1 still has some warts, Sigma has managed to shave a few of them off with firmware updates and I was pleasantly surprised when I finally got and used the camera for the first time that it wasn't anywhere near as bad as I'd feared.

If there's any way you might be able to use one for a bit I think you might become one of the converted too.

One can only hope that with the amount of feedback that has no doubt been received at Sigma that they will implement some of that into a next gen DPx product. It will be interesting to see what Photokina brings from Sigma.

Cheers,
 

Lili

New member
Simon,
Please understand I *really* like my GRD first gen, no matter what I get I will keep it, NOTHING draws images the same way, especially in B&W.
I am not looking to replace it.
Actually What I am looking for is something to replace/supplant my Pentax.
Don't get me wrong, I love the speed and quality a DSLR can give. The maintenance however is driving me mad; dust dust and more dust.
Also it is huge by my standards and I really have to force myself to take it with me. It also draws a lot of attention both by its looks and the sound of the shutter
Even my 'lower class' Fuji S6000 Bridge Camera tends to daw some looks.
However the Fuji is just a bit more portable in volume but far lighter and almost completely silent (by virtue of the leaf shutter and the manual zoom ring; no zoom-motor noise) so I find mself far more willing to take it with, esp since I do not have to tote a 'bag-o-lenses' (it having a remarkably good 28-300mm efl "Barca-Lounger" zoom).
The Sensor is excellent, having low noise and good Dynamic Range for a small sensor camera.
The User Interface, while not GRD level is decent and familiar to me. It seems quite well made, but its lightness and plastic construction leave me wondering about its long term durability.
Thats why I am considering the G-10 as a sturdy, relatively compact and versatile Jack-of-all-trades. The main sticking points for it so far is if it is any faster in manual focus that the G-9 and just how good or bad the OVF is. To a lesser extent I am somewhat concerned about all those pixels and just what the noise will look like. If it is fine-grained like the Ricoh, esp in B&W that would rock. Color blotchies would not.
Also Terry's link about Dynamic Range on the G-9 was telling tho not directly applicable to the G-10 as yet.
I have thought much about the quite-sturdy-but-far-more-massive Fuji S100fs with its superb EVF and LCD (the latter is articulating as well), larger 2/3'' sensor and 28-400 zoom. However that camera is heavier than my K100d with any of the lenses I have, as well as being a touch bigger. It does have the virtue, however, of obviating the need to carry extra lenses as well as having the same super quiet leaf shutter as the G-10, GRD and DP-1.
Like S6000fd, it too has a manual zoom ring with the speed and quiet operation that brings.
I DO like the concept and size of the Panny G-1, however despite the dust-removal system I am still leary of having the same problem.
I am very aware of the unique image quality of the DP-1, and would likely grow to love it too. There are times while out with the GRD that I see images that would best be caught with that big-and-ultra-sharp-foevon-sensor and that kick-a** lens. But if I spend that much, as I said earlier, it covers the same FOV as the Ricoh and so is hard to justify :(
So far that is ;)
I am holding off till all the Photokina announcements are made.
 
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