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Thread: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

  1. #1
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    Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    The review M.R. had said was coming.


    It references the LX-3 from time to time as well. The G10 shows rather strong in this comparison with the P6000, especially regarding CA/fringing and resolution (referring to image sharpness, not the sensor resolution). The lack of live histogram on the P6000 would disappoint me, since I'm a histogram addict and rarely, if ever, concern myself with the image appearance on the screen.

    In my opinion, there's still no perfect model out there, but the lower ISO images from the G10 are looking pretty darn good. This review might help a couple of my friends to make a choice. I'd like to see something with the G10's image quality in a slightly smaller package (with a good optical VF), but I want a lot of things.
    Last edited by Dale Allyn; 29th October 2008 at 01:25.

  2. #2
    asabet
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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    It was a good comparison and sure to sell many G10s. Although I trust MR to have great testing technique, there are a select few reviewers whom I trust more. Having seen samples at PhotographyBLOG that seem to show the opposite of what MR demonstrated, I'd love to see someone like Sean Reid corroborate MR's findings.

    That said, if I were in the market today for a landscape photography compact, I'd choose the Canon G10 over the P6000 and LX3/D-LUX. For overall use, I'm happy with my choice of the D-LUX due to the smaller size, better low light capability, higher dynamic range (from the samples I've seen), ability to switch native aspect ratio, and preference for the wider wide.

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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Amin,

    I agree with you about the various reviews and reviewers. One aspect that I like about some of M.R.'s reviews is the sense of practicality that he often imparts. Some highly technical reviews can be very useful, indeed, but sometimes just reading of one's "impressions" is as helpful.

    Besides, with you apparently being part of "the Gucci crowd" now you shouldn't be slumming it over at L.L.




  4. #4
    asabet
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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Ha ha .

    I do agree with you about MR and LL. I very much enjoy his site.

    I've been thinking lately that Ken Rockwell is like a bizarre, parallel universe version of MR these days. Michael is serious. Ken is not. Michael shoots RAW. Ken shoots JPEG. MR thinks gear matters. Ken says no. Most folks who like one of them don't so much enjoy the other. Yet they have a few things in common - 1) They both stir controversy; 2) They both write about things from a practical standpoint; 3) They both make lots of photographs; 4) They both love them some G10! Ken's review is here.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Great article and I can understand his enthusiasm for the G10, I already like mine a lot. After looking at bazillions of samples everywhere I could find them I would say, however, that the LX3/D-Lux 4 has better overall IQ than the G10. I almost bought the LX3, but in the end I liked the handling, features, and longer zoom of the G10 better. I had the D-Lux 3 and had some trouble working with it, just a little too small and slippery for me. Perhaps with the add-on grip, I'd be very happy with the D-Lux 4, but the high price weighed heavily against that combo. Maybe I'll eventually get a used one when the D-Lux 5 comes out, lol.
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Amin,

    I know that many people enjoy K.W.'s dialogues, though I'll be honest and say that I'm not among them. Still, I get what you mean.

    For me, the LX-3 was the first compact in a while that has gotten my attention, and now the G10 is piquing my interest a bit. Most of my current interest is in printing somewhat large prints so I have been concentrating my research around that subject. I can't afford an M-8 thanks to all of the other stuff I've been collecting, so I'm having fun learning about these more recent offerings in the compact camera sector. I have a number of compacts and P&S type cameras (maybe six or so), but only recently have the results of these newest offerings been of interest to me.

    I enjoy reading what you and the other members here with lots of hands-on experience post.

    Cheers,

    Dale

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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Joan,

    I do like how the G10 images you have been posting look. I think you made a great choice, as did Amin.


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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Amin,
    Interesting to see MR and KR agree on anything at all!

  9. #9
    asabet
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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    I know that many people enjoy K.W.'s dialogues, though I'll be honest and say that I'm not among them. Still, I get what you mean.
    Hi Dale, I'm not a big KR fan either. Someone contacted me through our blog to let me know about the KR review, and I was just noting an odd parallelism between these two fellows who are so dissimilar!

    MR summed things up as follows:

    The P6000 holds up well against the Panasonic LX-3, with both of them being similarly sized. The G10 is quite a bit heavier and bulkier, with the trade-off being its higher image quality, better build, and superior features over the P6000, such as a multi-frame raw buffer and live histogram.

    What unbalances the equation is that at this time these two cameras are priced the same. If the Nikon were lower priced I could see an argument for it, but not at $500. The LX3 offers an even smaller size, variable aspect ratios, and a usable raw buffer, along with a lower price. Add to this a wider and faster lens, if that's what your style of shooting needs, and regrettably the Nikon P6000 then finds itself uncompetitive with either of the other two.
    I'm just not convinced that the Nikon is uncompetitive. Compared to the G10, the P6000 is smaller and lighter while almost a stop slower at the tele end (2/3 stop but the G10 is longer), and less fully featured. If the G10 is too large and heavy for your needs and the LX3 doesn't go long enough, the P6000 is the obvious choice.

    The big question is whether MR's crops do justice to the P6000 image quality. I'm just not sure. Consider the following full-res JPEGs from PhotographyBLOG:
    Canon G10
    Nikon P6000

    Note how the G10 is clearly outresolving the P6000 in the center of the frame. Yet when you go out to the periphery, there is significant degradation of G10 image quality, while the Nikon holds out right to the corners.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Is there any way to see the EXIF info on the Photography Blog samples? my plug-in for Firefox doesn't do it.
    Regards,
    Joan

  11. #11
    asabet
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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    Amin,
    Interesting to see MR and KR agree on anything at all!
    Hi Lili, exactly! My comparison of them was really just me being silly.

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    Senior Member Arne Hvaring's Avatar
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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Here are a few things MR didn't tell you
    The DPP RAW conversion of G10 files introduces significant and sometimes rather bizarre artefacts. In default mode it also seems to sharpen the image to such an extent that any further sharpening looks overdone. MR uses "another RAW converter" which might be better, but officially DPP is the only game in town at the moment. The files of P6000 converted in ACR looks rather soft in comparison, but have much less demosaicing artefacts. The Nikon files can be PP significantly and sharpened a lot before becoming ugly.
    Below you'll see the full image, then 100% crops first from G10, then P6000. The crop is taken quite a bit from the edge of the picture and yet also the sharpness degradation (actually in the form of doubling of contours) of the Canon lens can be seen. But mainly the crops show the curious mess DPP/G10 makes of the green bush. The P6000 file is sharpened moderately and looks to me more natural and 3-dimensional.

    The next two crops (Canon first) is from a more central part of the same image. While the Canon shows slightly more fine-detail resolution, it comes at a price. The diagonals (white wooden boards a.o.) have rather rough stair pixelling and the tiles shows much the same. The Nikon is more well behaved and looks smoother and more natural. The good news for G10 users is that most of these artefacts are not really visible in print, even up to A3+.

    I find it curious that MR didn't notice the loss of sharpnessin the outer zone of the Canon lens. Like Amin I noticed it immediately in the images posted in Photography Blog, and I have confirmed it in my own testing. In fairness it should be mentioned that the softness is significantly less at the longer focal lenghts. The Nikon lens is more conservatively specified, both in regard to zoom range (4x vs. 5x) and in speed and it shows. It draws nicely and evenly over the full imaging area.
    Finally, let's not make too much of this, first of all we are comparing only two cameras, sample variation might throw this off completely. Secondly, even as it stands, both are state of the art small sensor cameras capable of excellent output.
    Which one did I keep? By a small margin the P6000 (main reason: on the whole a better lens and smaller/lighter camera), but with better optical performance than my copy showed, it might just as well have been the G10.
    Last edited by Arne Hvaring; 29th March 2009 at 13:20.

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    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Thanks for providing the comparison, Arne, and hope you'll enjoy the P6000.
    I just went out with the G10 again this afternoon, will have to really scrutinize my shots to see if I can notice the lens softness you and Amin are reporting.
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Senior Member 4season's Avatar
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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    The big question is whether MR's crops do justice to the P6000 image quality. I'm just not sure. Consider the following full-res JPEGs from PhotographyBLOG:
    Canon G10
    Nikon P6000

    Note how the G10 is clearly outresolving the P6000 in the center of the frame. Yet when you go out to the periphery, there is significant degradation of G10 image quality, while the Nikon holds out right to the corners.
    The links didn't seem to work for me, but I was able to find them by navigating from the photographyblog.com home page. Frankly, I thought the P6000 images look bad: An unattractive combo of excessive edge enhancement and combined with heavy noise reduction. I would be mighty unhappy if I had paid $500 for that.

  15. #15
    asabet
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    Re: Did You Catch This? G10 vs. P6000 on L.L.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    I thought the P6000 images look bad: An unattractive combo of excessive edge enhancement and combined with heavy noise reduction. I would be mighty unhappy if I had paid $500 for that.
    I wouldn't pay $500 for any of these cameras if I were going to be stuck with the in-camera JPEGs!

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