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Thread: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

  1. #1
    Mitch Alland
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    GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    The following pictures were taken with the GRD2 at ISO 400 and 800 at Huahin, a seaside resort two hours by car south of Bangkok. You can see the whole series of 32 pictures here:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1026877...44012922/show/

















    As I've stated previously ISO 400 is my favourite speed on the GRD2, but I also like ISO 800 a lot on this camera. You can see ISO 800 pictures with the GRD — the ones at the Tsukiji fish market, while the other Tokyo pictures are taken at ISO 400 on the GX100 — here:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1026877...77119712/show/

    —Mitch/Huahin
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
    Last edited by Mitch Alland; 6th January 2008 at 05:17.

  2. #2
    Player
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Great work Mitch! Spectacular really.

    ISO 800 looks like the sweet spot between grain and noiselessness. GRD-like.

    And thanks for the inspiration!

  3. #3
    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    PLAYER :
    I LOVE that concept
    between Grain and Noiselessness
    the Perfect neither neither

  4. #4
    Player
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Thanks helenhill, it's kind of "Zen-like," like Mitch's photography.

  5. #5
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Thanks for the kind words, Player.

    Regarding the Zen reference, these are all shot using the LCD for framing, that is, just to establish, roughly, the edges of the picture but looking at the subject when pressing the shutter. I feel that this method allows one to see and react better than using a viewfinder and has allowed me to have a looser, more fluid and direct style than I was able to achieve with my M6. Also, it doesn't hurt to read "Zen in the Art of Archery"...

    I walked around the market area for about an hour and shot 65 pictures and found that I had 32 that I wanted to print. This 1 out 2 hit ratio is enormous for me as usually the best I achieve, on the average, is 1 out 10 or 15. It seems to me that sometimes one is just in the right state of mind to shoot.

    Another thing worth mentioning is that the 28mm EFOV is very good for this type of photography. Before getting the original GRD 18 months ago I had barely used a 28mm lens and was skeptical about this focal length; but I was open to it because I knew that the great Japanese photographer, and of my favourites, Moriyama Daido, used this, together with 21mm, almost exclusively.

    —Mitch/Huahin
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  6. #6
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    The composition is spot-on, as always Mitch, on these photos and you've captured some genuine human energy in all of them. That said, they seem a little softer than your usual style. I don't know if it's motion blur or lens blur, but they look more like the Caplio than the GRD.

  7. #7
    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Mitch:
    I did indeed forget to mention in my post to PLAYER
    that your work is quite FAB
    you have elevated the small sensor cameras into the World of Art
    My two favorite shots are in your 'PARIS' series
    The man smoking a cigarette in a cafe with the Pig Painting behind him
    and
    The Frame Shop with a woman passing by
    All the Best

  8. #8
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Thanks, Maggie.

    You think they're really softer than the GRD pictures, or it it just the finer grain? Here's one of my GRD ISO800 pictures for comparison:





    —Mitch/Huahin
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
    Last edited by Mitch Alland; 6th January 2008 at 16:22.

  9. #9
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
    Mitch:
    I did indeed forget to mention in my post to PLAYER
    that your work is quite FAB
    you have elevated the small sensor cameras into the World of Art
    My two favorite shots are in your 'PARIS' series
    The man smoking a cigarette in a cafe with the Pig Painting behind him
    and
    The Frame Shop with a woman passing by
    All the Best
    Thanks, Helen.

    —Mitch/Huahin
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    i kind of agree with Maggie... all except for the middle one which is almost GRD-like and is absolutely spectacular.

  11. #11
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    There's definitely less snap to the new pix, especially compared to the photo you posted, Mitch. I've noticed that grain adds something like local contrast to your photos, giving them a depth that really draws the viewer in, but that last batch seems, in comparison, to be drawn on a flatter plane.

    You're still working in LightZone, yes? Maybe adding some Midtone Sharpening to the pix will help bring out the grain- it seems to do that with my photos.
    Last edited by Maggie O; 6th January 2008 at 17:29.

  12. #12
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Alland View Post
    Thanks, Maggie.

    You think they're really softer than the GRD pictures, or it it just the finer grain? Here's one of my GRD ISO800 pictures for comparison:

    —Mitch/Huahin
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
    Hi Mitch,

    I think you're spot on. They're not softer, there's just less noise/grain. We're seeing more of the subject and less of the camera.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  13. #13
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Alland View Post
    That woman in the lower left corner, she's really good.

    Cheers,

    Sean

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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Mitch:

    I saw your pictures before Christmas over on the the other forum and I resonated with the Tri-x/D76 aspect of them. They brought back to me the raw emotion of the photography of my youth... pushing the film and developing the grain to paint a coarseness onto the paper, to better convey emotions of people that are neither processed or polished in real life.

    Because of your pictures I bought the Ricoh GRII and have been rediscovering photographic art. This camera is a wonderful artistic tool that can not be adequately measured by any subjective metric. You either get this camera or you don't.

    Auni

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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Mitch:

    And, thank you so much.

    Auni

  16. #16
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Thanks for the kind words, Auni. Hope you enjoy the camera.

    —Mitch/Huahin
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  17. #17
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    ...I think you're spot on. They're not softer, there's just less noise/grain. We're seeing more of the subject and less of the camera...
    Yes, Sean, but the question is whether we want to see more of the camera — in this case the GRD. But, seriously, that is the issue that I keep on cogitating: whether I want more of the original GRD look, which of course I could try to simulate in PP. However, I'm quite pleased with the Huahin Market series of pictures. Nevertheless...

    Maggie, I have done some overall as well as some mid-tone sharpening already in LightZone already. What I do notice is that the TIFF files have some more grain to them than than the JPGs converted in LightZone. When I get back to Bangkok tomorrow I'll have to see how the prints come out.

    —Mitch/Huahin
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Alland View Post
    Yes, Sean, but the question is whether we want to see more of the camera — in this case the GRD. But, seriously, that is the issue that I keep on cogitating: whether I want more of the original GRD look, which of course I could try to simulate in PP. However, I'm quite pleased with the Huahin Market series of pictures. Nevertheless...

    Maggie, I have done some overall as well as some mid-tone sharpening already in LightZone already. What I do notice is that the TIFF files have some more grain to them than than the JPGs converted in LightZone. When I get back to Bangkok tomorrow I'll have to see how the prints come out.

    —Mitch/Huahin
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
    i hope you share what your conclusions are with the prints. your photographs, as always, are stunning. but i do miss the bite, the textures you were able to bring out from the original. perhaps smooth is a better word than soft? your images and style have en edge to them that i think was enhanced by the grain. i never felt that the camera was overpowering them, rather that you were the maestro.

    this is not being critical of the GRDII, it's a brilliant camera. i simply miss the edginess you got with the original. again, i'm talking about enhancement. but that is, perhaps, a personal preference of mine (obviously not Sean's) and i think you'll see it in the prints... i commented (as i'm sure Maggie did) because i know you've been grappling with this issue.

  19. #19
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Cam, I agree. I'll let you know how the prints come out. But see below.

    Maggie, after my last posting I went back and looked at my LightZone "stack of tools" for the GRD (Tsukiji) picture above and found that I had done the mid-tone enhancement of USM 20/50/0 two times, which is quite brutal as it also heightens the highest tones and darkens the lowest tones a bit; but it obviously works for that picture. I'm going to go back and add this extra adjustment to the five pictures above to see the results. When I replace the five JPGs on flickr I don't know whether it will make the pictures above disappear or whether it will also replace them here. If the latter I'll repost them below.

    I've had this discussion on not wanting an "exquisite" look now a couple with Jim Nachtway in Bangkok: he has a similar view and also appreciates Moriyama Daido, but obviously is not as much having the latter's expressionist look as I am.

    —Mitch/Huahin
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  20. #20
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    The pictures updated from flickr, but, not having a comparison, I'm not sure you can notice a difference.

    —Mitch/Huahin
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  21. #21
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    i simply miss the edginess you got with the original. again, i'm talking about enhancement. but that is, perhaps, a personal preference of mine (obviously not Sean's)
    Oh no, actually I sometimes like grain quite a bit myself. It depends on the work. Mitch's call is whether or not to start adding it in.

    Cheers,

    Sean

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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Alland View Post
    The pictures updated from flickr, but, not having a comparison, I'm not sure you can notice a difference.

    —Mitch/Huahin
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
    even side by side, it's difficult to see because the pictures are smaller on flickr....

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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    Oh no, actually I sometimes like grain quite a bit myself. It depends on the work. Mitch's call is whether or not to start adding it in.

    Cheers,

    Sean
    Sean, i'm sorry if that came out mean-sounding. i completely respect your views and taste (hey, i subscribe to your reviews!). blame it on late night posting misspeak.

    i've just been grappling with some of the same issues as mitch. in my case, as i am not as good as he is, i've managed to get a lot of grit out of the GRDII sometimes -- even when it isn't wanted! i was just giving input as i'm a fan of mitch's work... again, my apologies.

  24. #24
    Super Duper
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Yeah, I think "smoothness" is a better descriptor for what I was trying to get across.

  25. #25
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    Sean, i'm sorry if that came out mean-sounding. i completely respect your views and taste (hey, i subscribe to your reviews!). blame it on late night posting misspeak.

    i've just been grappling with some of the same issues as mitch. in my case, as i am not as good as he is, i've managed to get a lot of grit out of the GRDII sometimes -- even when it isn't wanted! i was just giving input as i'm a fan of mitch's work... again, my apologies.
    Hi Cam,

    There's nothing to apologize for at all.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  26. #26
    LFPhoto
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Thanks Mitch - great set. I am a fan of your style, and appreciate your commentary.

    I know it's hard to tell with images posted on the web, but to me a number of the images composed with faces very pronounced in the foreground appear soft (as opposed to the background), and I wondered if it was motion blur, until I saw your shutter speeds, and wonder now if it may be a near DOF thing. What focus mode did you use? Thanks, Brian.

  27. #27
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Thanks, LF. For the pictures where the people are near I focused at 1m, for the others I used SNAP. The focus should be correct unless there is something wrong with the camera. I think I noted in another thread that when I used SPOT focus to focus on something, say, 3m or 1m away, and then switched to MF the MF focus scale did not show these numbers; so I wonder...

    —Mitch/Bngkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  28. #28
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    But I forgot to add, as stated above and as commented on by Sean, I don't think that most of the pictures are out of focus...

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  29. #29
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    As the pictures in the OP have finally disappeared I'm posting them here again:
















    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  30. #30
    Player
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    That's interesting about the sharpness. I would say that they're acceptably sharp, maybe not tack sharp. I just assumed that Mitch had rendered them as he wanted them, and they're great pictures!

    I also agree with helenhill's comment about Mitch raising his small sensor photography to
    "The World of Art."

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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Those look great, Mitch. That 3-D quality is back.

  32. #32
    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by Player View Post
    I also agree with helenhill's comment about Mitch raising his small sensor photography to
    "The World of Art."

    I agree..I'm a fan...thanks for posting.
    Mike

    website under construction

  33. #33
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Those look great, Mitch. That 3-D quality is back.
    Maggie, thanks for the advice: it's amazing how sometimes small touches make a difference.

    Mike. Player: thanks for the kind words.

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  34. #34
    LFPhoto
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by Player View Post
    That's interesting about the sharpness. I would say that they're acceptably sharp, maybe not tack sharp. I just assumed that Mitch had rendered them as he wanted them, and they're great pictures!
    My comment above was not directed at the overall sharpness of the image, but to the relative level, wherein the foreground appears softer than the background. I am assuming this in not the intention since the faces are forward in a number of the compositions, but this may be presumptuous of me. I also acknowledge that it is hard to make observations based on web images. My suspicion is that, having ruled out motion blur, there is an element of unpredictability in the near DOF under some of the focus modes. Unfortunately the EXIF data doesn't report the focus mode, so this is hard to determine. Respectfully, Brian.

  35. #35
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Brian, they're all in MF, set either for 2.5m or 1m, depending on the distance of the person from me.I find that none of the AF modes are fast enough for street photography, as they induce excessive shutter delay.

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  36. #36
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    They look great Mitch!

    Just a reminder to you guys you have tons of free image storage space in the galleries right here, especially if flickr keeps dropping your links.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  37. #37
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Alland View Post
    Brian, they're all in MF, set either for 2.5m or 1m, depending on the distance of the person from me.I find that none of the AF modes are fast enough for street photography, as they induce excessive shutter delay.

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


    Hi Mitch,

    AF delay, actually, and I agree with you completely. One difference with the Ricohs is that they respond with virtually no lag when manually focused and this is not the case with some other small sensor cameras.

    The only small sensor camera I've tested that almost was able to AF quickly was the older Sony V1.

    Cheers,

    Sean

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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Sean or Mitch,

    Can you pre-focus (half-way press and hold shutter release) and lock the focus? If you can, is the shutter lag as short then as when you focus manually? Any comparisons to Canon G9 in regards to shutter lag?

    Thanks,
    Thomas

  39. #39
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Thomas:

    Yes, you can do a half-shutter press to prefocus but I haven't tested this because, with the huge DOF of this camera, it's a lot more convenient to use MF to pre-focus — and I suspect a lot faster too.

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  40. #40
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    As I've reworked two of the pictures above, which will make them disappear in the posting above, here are the new versions, in which I've pushed the the dark tones lower, following the logic of the look (at least to me) and have increased contrast to compensate for this as well:








    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  41. #41
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by trisberg View Post
    Sean or Mitch,

    Can you pre-focus (half-way press and hold shutter release) and lock the focus? If you can, is the shutter lag as short then as when you focus manually? Any comparisons to Canon G9 in regards to shutter lag?

    Thanks,
    Thomas
    Yes, you can prefocus with a half-press and yes the shutter then responds almost instantly. The G9 is slower than the GR2 in MF mode, will discuss that further in my review of that camera which should be ready in the next couple of weeks. I'm hoping that the GR2 review will be published tomorrow.

    Cheers,

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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Mitch and Sean, thanks for the info. The amount of shutter lag is hard to figure out from just reading online technical specs and reviews so feedback from someone with hands on experience is very valuable. Looking forward to reading Sean's reviews.

    Thomas

  43. #43
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800

    Quote Originally Posted by trisberg View Post
    Mitch and Sean, thanks for the info. The amount of shutter lag is hard to figure out from just reading online technical specs and reviews so feedback from someone with hands on experience is very valuable. Looking forward to reading Sean's reviews.

    Thomas
    Give it about two hours or so and it should be up.

    Cheers,

    Sean

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