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Thread: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

  1. #1
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    The DP-1 arrived yesterday with the finder. The hood will be here on Fri or Sat...(don't care about that anyway).

    After reading many reviews and following discussions, I feel almost a responsibility to get a conversation going about this camera.

    I traded the LX-3 on this and have no regrets. The Sigma matches my vision in a more intuitive way. I kept the G10 for reasons that are not part of this discussion, yet.

    The Sigma is a very intuitive camera. I have not read the manual yet and already have passed 350 frames doing my anal testing.
    The camera sees beautiful and records in a thinking way.

    I come from 40+ years carrying a Leica M with a 35mm lens on the streets. I used this outfit for everything, weddings, events personal work etc.

    The Sigma, while definitely not a Leica, does in fact conjour up the sensitivities and sensibilities of the M cameras. This is all important to me.

    The camera is slow but precise. It records slower than any camera I've ever had in a few years...

    Ok...so what's good or bad about that......? Nuttin'.

    The camera forces you to slow down, think, compose yourself, breath and compose your image.....It forces you to be deliberate in execution because the fleeting "Decisive Moment" will be longer between frames than one is used to. This also is a good thing.

    On manual focus and A Mode, it's a very fast precise camera. No lag in these settings....If the camera switches off after a spell and you wake it up, your right back to where you were when she dozed off. This is one of the most important design elements in this or any digicam. The Lumix does not come back to where it was. It normally comes back to 2xs the focusing distance, even in manual.....BAD....Bad!

    Sigma knew who they designed the camera for...it's all over their advertising....Fine Art Photographers.

    The finder, (VF11) is very small, smaller than the Lumix finder. It's bright and forces you to pay attention to the frame lines....this camera will keep you awake in the here and now....no drifting off with this sweetheart.

    The accuracy of the finder is very good, in fact better than any of my Leica finders.

    IQ speaks for itself and I can't argue the fact that it's simply the best I've seen in a long time. (includes my M8 and D300 and 5D)

    There's a certain life to the images that this camera records that is extremely photographic and not digital.

    Ok,...enough for now....tomorrow is the Mummers Parade and I'll be there again with the Sigma on a wrist strap and the G10 in a pocket just in case I get shot, and loose the Sigma. I intend to do the entire parade with just the Sigma......cool beans.......just like my M4 and Tr-X.....

    Happy New Years all.....

    Go safe and go in peace.......don

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Your Enthusiasm Streetshooter
    is making it Difficult for me
    to hold out for the DP2

    Bad enough I sold my DP1
    those early DP1 problems... & the Love/Hate dilemma

    Lovely to hear you've fallen under the Foeven Spell

    Cheers -H

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Helen,
    It's not just the sensor...the entire design and process with the camera is really wonderful. I'm really getting to see again....
    The DP-2 should be a great camera also..it's go nice next to the 1....
    shooter

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Streetshooter, I'm with you. With digital photography people no longer have to think much about the composition, framing, light, timing...they just point the camera anywhere and just shoot away. This camera makes you be more careful and thoughtful about your photos. Image wise I think this camera produces a very organic film like image. As some of you may know I'm now making a 10 day trip through Beijijng and other than the DP1 I've also brought the LX3. Although the photos from the LX3 look great I feel they still look digital to me, whereas the DP1 photos do not. The trade off is of course speed and low light performance.

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    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    From my standpoint, the DP1 shot to shot wait time is a pain in the neck. The Sigma finder has more than mild barrel distortion. Also, I don't think this camera has better image quality than the 5D or D700, though, remarkably, it competes well in many respects with those cameras.

    However, I think I agree with the spirit of what you've said. The DP1 is designed in a straightforward manner, with everything that matters most (controls for aperture, shutter, focus, ISO, etc) easy to access and control. I think it's odd when rangefinder users complain about shutter lag with this camera. AF is slow, a legitimate con, but there is negligible shutter lag with the DP1 if one pre-determines the exposure and focus settings. No one ever waited for the decisive moment to set their film camera exposure and align their little rangefinder patch.

    I also know what you mean about the camera remembering its settings. Both the D-LUX 4 and G10 forget their manual focus settings, which can be a real pain.

    All three of those cameras (D-LUX 4, G10, DP1) are excellent IMO, and at one time or another I planned to keep all three long term. However, I periodically get motivated to get rid of the cameras which aren't seeing much use. In the time that I have had the DP1, I've said goodbye to a GX100, G9, D-LUX 4, G10, E-410, and E-420. So far, the DP1 has earned its keep.

  6. #6
    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    [QUOTE=Amin;66467] No one ever waited for the decisive moment to set their film camera exposure and align their little rangefinder patch

    As an M2 Gal I LOVE That Line, Amin
    Touche'...


    I should have been more sensible like YOU & kept the DP1
    having gone through a long list of cams myself

    All the Best- H

  7. #7
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    That's exactly the point that Sigma meant with this camera. I find it hard to believe with all the threads about this camera, that no one really appreciates the bad things about it....
    In photography, the most important law is the Inverse Square Law.

    The DP-1 is the prime example in Digital Cameras expressing the above law.
    shooter

  8. #8
    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Quote Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    No one ever waited for the decisive moment to set their film camera exposure and align their little rangefinder patch
    As an M2 Gal I LOVE That Line, Amin
    Touche'...
    Thanks Helen . I've heard too many Leica M users complain about the DP1 not being a "decisive moment camera". It's just not a rational criticism, IMO.

  9. #9
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Thanks Helen . I've heard too many Leica M users complain about the DP1 not being a "decisive moment camera". It's just not a rational criticism, IMO.
    I agree entirely. It's as close to the M as any digital camera ever got. Actually, that's really what it's designed for.

    I'm just feeling so free...I lost that for many years when I went full digital, many years ago. Now I feel like the creative juices are boiling over.....

    Tomorrow at the parade, the DP-1 will either become my companion or some one else's at the end of the day....
    shooter

  10. #10
    Super Duper
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Shooter, you very cogently put forward points about the DP-1 that so many have missed, makes it very hard to resist getting one.
    Amin, lovely pointy statement about the M series and DMD
    I shot with my Hexar yesterday a bit, fast and quiet, we'll see how the results turn out....but I had forgot how much bigger it was than the GRD!

  11. #11
    ddk
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    The Sigma is a very intuitive camera. The camera sees beautiful and records in a thinking way.

    The camera is slow but precise.
    Like the focus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    It records slower than any camera I've ever had in a few years...
    Very, very, very slow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    Ok...so what's good or bad about that......? Nuttin'.

    The camera forces you to slow down, think, compose yourself, breath and compose your image.....It forces you to be deliberate in execution because the fleeting "Decisive Moment" will be longer between frames than one is used to. This also is a good thing.
    I'm glad that you like your DP-1, in my case it drove me crazy! I know how to take pictures and find my right moments don't need the camera to hold me back. A camera is only a tool and needs to be responsive, don't need one that gets in the way like the DP-1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    Sigma knew who they designed the camera for...it's all over their advertising....Fine Art Photographers. IQ speaks for itself and I can't argue the fact that it's simply the best I've seen in a long time. (includes my M8 and D300 and 5D)
    Please, let's not get carried away here, IQ is good in the realm of small cameras but you can't compare it to any higher end dslr and specially the M8, I think you should give it some more time before jumping to any final conclusions.

    Enjoy!

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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    having used it for a few days i'm finding it fun to use. if you look at my thread when the dam breaks you'll see my day by day progress. lowlight the most difficult and i'm bracing myself against the wall a lot. the last entries shot totally in manual. battery does last longer (and i just got a second, which solves the problem). the hood arrived a couple of days ago and i love it, but the viewfinder arrived today and the hood does get in the way (as i'd read). but it fits so perfectly. does anyone have the voightlander and does it clear the hood? the one thing about the hood it does make you more conspicuous. i am waiting for a 4gb III card, which is supposed to cut down on the wait time. it seems, by the way, to focus from about seven feet to infinity, when set close to infinity.

    even though i just got the 5d it's not made for museum and streetshooting. this camera shines in postprocessing. here's another shot from yesterday under difficult conditions.

    interested in everyone's observations.

    best,
    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
    Last edited by smokysun; 26th January 2009 at 19:11.

  13. #13
    ddk
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Streetshooter, I'm with you. With digital photography people no longer have to think much about the composition, framing, light, timing...they just point the camera anywhere and just shoot away. This camera makes you be more careful and thoughtful about your photos.
    So all the wonderful images that you see around just happen by themselves, right...

  14. #14
    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Just a little something for DP1 lovers




    Larger version (firefox only)

  15. #15
    nei1
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Nice shot Wayne,its as though the lady in the foreground is magnetic,changing the flow of all those travellers.You seem to have that ellusive 3D effect here in the group of 4 foreground figures,Id be interested on your opinions of this ,is the 28mmwideangle contributing,is it the sensor,is it a myth?

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Hyperfocal distances for DP-1 are as follows....

    f 4.0 12.6'

    f 5.6 8.93'

    f 8.0 6.33'

    f 11 4.49'

    The camera focused at these settings will render everything from 1/2 the Hyperfocal Distance to Infinity in acceptable focus....

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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    hi neil
    both the 28 and sensor contribute, i think. i was going to wait for the dp2 with a 41mm 2.8 lens. it would be a lot faster in low light. but i'm finding the 28 mm very attractive and useful. the sensor is not of dslr quality, at least not like the canon ones i have. but the detail you can pull out of the file is quite something. it won't naturally give you what you want (in my opinion) but a little post-processing goes a long way. i've been shooting only in raw. i'll be happy when the faster card gets here.
    and the size of the camera for what it does is wonderful! just remember, everything works slowly. it's not for fast lowlight pictures of young children.

    best,
    wayne
    www.pbase.com/wwp

  18. #18
    Oxide Blu
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    ... I know how to take pictures and find my right moments don't need the camera to hold me back. A camera is only a tool and needs to be responsive, don't need one that gets in the way ...
    I totally agree with this. I 'see' the finished image before I ever raise the camera to take a pic. Last thing I need is the frustration of waiting for the camera to keep up. I've very interested in what Sigma comes up with in the future.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    The DP-1 arrived yesterday...

    The camera sees beautiful and records in a thinking way.
    Don, classic quote... I can see that you are a true artist.

    I don't think one really needs to be logical about cameras - they're all pretty capable these days.

    In the end, it comes down to how a camera feels to you personally, and whether it inspires you to go out and take more pictures.

    I'm very happy for you both Don, it looks like you're in love

    Now, if only I can find my DP1 around here, I'm gonna take it out with me tomorrow morning

    Kind Regards

    Brian

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    A few things......

    Just got back from the Parade......

    The camera taught me to change the zoom settings...(hard headed I know), to:
    W-ISO......T-off.

    Works better cause my thumb as suggested hits the T button. After an hour working, I changed the settings and no more troubles with ISO changes....
    I ordered the Grip from Richard and should have it next week...that will help the actual hold on the camera....

    Siggy, will be a constant companion, no doubt. She works along with me in a very open relationship....She slows me down, I was always slow anyway but with the zooms on past cameras and fast response time, I felt kinda lost....

    I set the camera to A Mode @ f4.0....manual focus to about hyperfocal distance and even when it fell asleep from boredom, when awaken went right back to the last setting with no unexpected changes.....WONDERFUL!

    With the screen off and no review, the camera fires instantly, no lag what so ever...and as said on other threads...the wait time between frames is, well drink coffee, grab a snack.....I don't care...to me it's not a problem.....

    The finder is a pleasure to use....brings back my M daze quickly.....
    Battery power is not great, not bad....I have 3 and that solves the power problem....

    I got around 150 frames on 1 1/3 batteries......So that's acceptable...all raw, no flash.

    I do not miss the LX3...I will keep Siggy and wait for the Siggy2 as a 2nd camera.

    I converted the files to DNG, loaded them in LR and have done a 1st edit....there are more smiles on me than before, just for the simple fact that I worked very attentively and deliberately. The IQ is more than acceptable.....

    Please don't get me wrong about IQ.....I am not saying that the Siggy has BETTER IQ than my M8 or 5D or any other camera...what I am saying is that Siggy is more
    Silver like and organic that the other Digial Cameras I have or had.....

    For me, it's about the image, that's it....then it becomes about process, to get the image...
    Siggy is now part of that process....I will post a few images later, after I come down from the high I'm still on......

    To the members posting about the DP-1, you have inspired me and for that, Thanks is certainly not enough......but Thanks anyway.....

    shooter

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    01-09-206
    Last edited by Streetshooter; 3rd November 2009 at 14:15.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Thanks for the update Don, please post more as you go along... fascinating and thoughtful.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  23. #23
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Thank You Sir,

    Well, at iso 400, noise reduction is not needed. It's a hard edit for me but there are certain images that are screaming to be in the final selection.

    here's one....01-09-0138 (month-year-file number)
    Last edited by Streetshooter; 3rd November 2009 at 14:15.

  24. #24
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    A few from the boiler.....
    Last edited by Streetshooter; 3rd November 2009 at 14:15.

  25. #25
    ddk
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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    Thank You Sir,

    Well, at iso 400, noise reduction is not needed. It's a hard edit for me but there are certain images that are screaming to be in the final selection.

    here's one....01-09-0138 (month-year-file number)
    Interesting shot, like it a lot!

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    Re: DP-1 Thoughts and Findings

    I would like to share my thoughts on the DP-1 as well.

    Yes, it's slow after you take a shot. Yes, it's slow if you want it to AF. Yes, the LCD is sad compared to other cameras. *But* I enjoy using it very much! To me, there will never be the perfect camera. It comes down to finding the one that suits me best at the moment. For now, it's the DP-1 if it's bright. GRD II or the LX-3 when it gets dark. If camera form factor is not a big factor, it's the D700 with Zeiss lenses.

    The MF control is awesome! The "feel" of the photographs is unique and I like it a lot. Now that ACR supports the DP-1 raw, it makes the post-processing much faster.

    I use Richard Franiec's grip and it makes the camera much more pleasant to use. Instead of the Sigma VF, I use the Voigtlander 28mm. I find the view of the Voigtlander VF to be brighter.

    I would love to see the following improvements to the next generation of this genre of camera,
    - MF control lock
    - Faster RAW write speed
    - DNG support
    - Faster lens
    - Better high ISO performance
    - Maybe IS

    I have used many other cameras and DP-1 is definitely a wonderful camera to use. The cameras that I have used are,
    - GRD II
    - GX-200
    - G9
    - G10
    - LX-3

    If you would like to know my experiences with these other cameras compared to DP-1, I would gladly share.

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