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Thread: Where's the fun with the RX10?

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    Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Surely someone has one? - such an interesting camera.
    It seems to be the obvious successor to the lovely E10 (all those years ago)

    Opinions?
    Samples?
    I was seriously tempted.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    I still am ....

    I'll be taking a look at it next week.

    It certainly seems to be the ideal grab-it-and-go all-weather dog-walking camera.

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Well, I'm still interested as well. I'll be looking to you to start a proper 'fun with' thread!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Meanwhile, I've spotted this as an appetizer:
    Sony RX10 User Impressions:

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    a mixed review on LuLa !

    Sony RX-10 Review

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/
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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, I'm still interested as well.
    Jono, there's one cure, and one cure only against "being interested". You know the medicine. Just close your eyes and drink it

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Jono, there's one cure, and one cure only against "being interested". You know the medicine. Just close your eyes and drink it
    Hi Jorgen - there is another simpler (and much cheaper) answer . . . which is simply to forget the whole thing!

    all the best

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Jorgen - there is another simpler (and much cheaper) answer . . . which is simply to forget the whole thing!

    all the best
    Makes sense to me. While I'm sure the RX10 is an excellent camera, the price is on the weird side. It looks like another one of Sony's "because we can" cameras. Letting showcase products onto the market has always been a part of Sony's marketing strategy, and is probably an integral component in their success formula, but I'm not sure people are supposed to buy all their stuff

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Makes sense to me. While I'm sure the RX10 is an excellent camera, the price is on the weird side. It looks like another one of Sony's "because we can" cameras. Letting showcase products onto the market has always been a part of Sony's marketing strategy, and is probably an integral component in their success formula, but I'm not sure people are supposed to buy all their stuff
    HI Jorgen
    Well, I'm not sure - the RX10 seems like a continuum from the R1 (is that what it was called?). Which was a fine, if quirky camera . . . but was never developed further.

    Whatever, someone around here must have bought it, and I'm interested in what they think!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Here's a quote from Ming Thein on FB 10 minutes ago:

    "They're charging nearly US$1300 for a fixed lens, small-sensor superzoom and this is the kind of rubbish build quality they give? I haven't even mentioned the loosely clunking lens or the visible rough seam lines on the lens barrel yet. It's a bloody joke."

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Hmm. I had an opportunity to play with one this week as I mentioned and found it to be very well made ...
    What puts me off - and I believe this is the stumbling point for most - is the fact that you can't forget that those 1150 Euros are for a small sensor camera ...
    Having said that, I found it easy to pick up, twiddle the menu to suit and take quite good images. Being able to cancel the noises including the shutter make it a most welcome silent shooter. The complaints about the zoom taking ALL OF THREE SECONDS from end to end are an exaggeration (a dig at LuLa, here). Apart from not being as long as it sounds; except for a complete ignoramus no-one hunts from 24mm to full tele all the time hoping for a prize shot anyway. You might be at 70mm and want to get in closer from there or back off from 35mm to 24mm and using the rocker switch is plenty quick enough. Don't bother using the zoom ring, this is slower and in any case your left hand is there to smoothly vary the aperture - turn off the clicker and use your finger as if you were focusing a well engineered Voigtländer, together with the ever so light snick as the shutter fires is enough to bring a smile to your face ...

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Any sample images?

    I'm thinking to buy this for Christmas.

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Reviving this as I briefly shot this at my local store. It is an interesting camera, and I may take the plunge. I'm in camera-flux at the moment (ha! never happens around here), having drank the A7 koolaid and shrinking down to only GH3 and 12-35/35-100 for u4/3. I picked up an RX100ii and that is truly pocketable (unlike the GM1 I had) with really the only downside being the lens getting slow quickly as you zoom.

    I was shooting a shoot last week. Camera crew came in to do a story on one of our labs. They were doing stills and videos, and I was documenting that with the A7/55 and the RX100ii. Got gorgeous shots from the A7, but couldn't use it when they were shooting video - shutter is too loud. RX100ii set to silent to the rescue, but given our lab is dark and they were shooting mostly available light, I was stuck at the wide end so I could get f1.8. The RX10 likely would have been ideal - shoots relatively silent, and I could use anything in the zoom range up to 200mm at f2.8. My in-store test was pretty strong. I compared the same shots with the A7 and while you can certainly tell the difference, the RX10 files compared favorably with a Fuji XE1 that I tried (colors not as nice, but not night and day). The video looked good from the RX10 as well. Zoom was smooth in video, and when you switch to DMF you get AF and the zoom ring on the lens switches to MF. Combine that with a good EVF and focus peaking (including while shooting video) and you have a remarkably capable camera.

    I had intended to fall in love with one of the Fujis to be intermediate between the RX100 and A7, but I may have talked myself into the RX10 as it does more things and seems to do them well.

    Build quality seemed quite nice. Maybe the wobbly lens that Ming talked about was an abused demo. The one I tried was a store demo but felt tight.

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    I handled the RX10 and it's a no-go for me. The zoom is too slow and the twist zoom is still by wire, not mechanically coupled. Build quality is fine, but still feels plasticy.

    I have no use for video from a camera - I have a video camera.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    I have bought one, and had it about a week now, I am very impressed indeed. Almost every commentator has complained about the "slow" zoom, but I find it just right. I have an RX100 also and with that camera I find the zoom much too fast and difficult to set accurately. My solution there is to use the toggle zoom control to go to near to where I want to be and then fine tune using the front ring.

    The default set up on the RX10 works the same way and is just right for me. The only annoyance is that the zoom ring turns in the opposite direction to the Olympus ones I am used to.

    The camera is a very nice size and weight for carrying around, and the lens is excellent.

    I am so impressed that I spent today packing up my Oly E5, 40-150, 12-60, 50-200 and EC14 to send off to Ffordes for commission sale....

    (Note to self: Must revise my signature!!)
    Peter J

    OM-D E-M5 GX7, Various Oly and Panasonic lenses Sony RX100. SonyRX10

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Just getting to know the RX10. This picture taken just across the road from where I live. This is a completely unedited OOC jpg.

    Remarkably for a small sensor camera the twigs on the tree branches are sharp and have no CA or purple fringing. They are sharp and at 35mm EFL so is the house.
    Peter J

    OM-D E-M5 GX7, Various Oly and Panasonic lenses Sony RX100. SonyRX10

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Wrong Photo; oops..

    Excellent question Jono.

    My son does imaging with such devices and scrutinizes the results very closely.

    One of his working toys:


    He wants a RX10 or a Lumix FZ1000.

    Which one to recommend to him?

    Best.

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Wow, to see an RX10 replace an entire interchangable lens kit is impressive! The EC14 and the 50-200 would have been sold at a handsome price

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    He wants a RX10 or a Lumix FZ1000.

    Which one to recommend to him?

    Best.
    I'm sure that others on the forum will be able to provide more details, but (so far as I can ascertain from simply reading about these two cameras) the main points of difference are:

    Zoom range(35mm equivalent):
    FZ1000 25-400mm --- RX10 zoom: 24-200mm

    Aperture range:
    FZ1000 f/2.8 to f/4.0 --- RX10 f/2.8 constant

    Also, the FZ1000 is a little larger and heavier than the RX10.

    Otherwise, much appears similar (e.g. sensor size, and MPx) and I suspect that, ultimately, the choice would come down to a combination of ergonomic preferences, and the intended use. I haven't handled the FZ1000, but I did handle an RX10 yesterday. The ergonomics were to my liking, and it felt well-built, with good 'heft'.

    Hope this is of some help... good luck with the decision.
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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by pjphoto59 View Post
    Just getting to know the RX10. This picture taken just across the road from where I live. This is a completely unedited OOC jpg.

    Remarkably for a small sensor camera the twigs on the tree branches are sharp and have no CA or purple fringing. They are sharp and at 35mm EFL so is the house.
    Now that you've had a few months to get used to the RX10, what's your opinion now?

    I made the strategic error of actually handling one yesterday, and I have to say that I was impressed with what I saw.

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    tbhy55..much appreciated.

    Thank you.

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post

    He wants a RX10 or a Lumix FZ1000.

    Which one to recommend to him?

    Best.
    Well, having played with both I feel that the much better response times, longer zoom and better EVF of the Panasonic more than outweigh the nicer build quality, weather sealing and fixed f2.8 of the Sony. Image quality is a wash.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, having played with both I feel that the much better response times, longer zoom and better EVF of the Panasonic more than outweigh the nicer build quality, weather sealing and fixed f2.8 of the Sony. Image quality is a wash.
    Thanks Jono.

    That's what he shall be recommended.

    Best.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by tbhv55 View Post
    Now that you've had a few months to get used to the RX10, what's your opinion now?

    I made the strategic error of actually handling one yesterday, and I have to say that I was impressed with what I saw.
    I have had the RX10 for about six months now. I have used it quite a lot and have become accustomed to it. It is a very convenient way to carry a camera with a 24-200 EFL f2.8 lens. It sits well in the hand and controls are well placed. Only two “niggles”:

    (1) The zoom is slow to operate. I tried using the step zoom function (which used to work very well indeed on my Ricoh GX100) but sadly the Sony set up is poor compared with the Ricoh. On the Ricoh I used to carry the camera set with step zoom at 50mm EFL. The FL could then be moved quickly up or down. If you switched the camera off it stayed at the zoom setting you last used. The Sony does not do this, but reverts to 24mm EFL if you switch off. So I do not use step zoom and mainly use the toggle around the shutter release for zoom control.

    (2) The switch for the “click” setting on the aperture ring is easy to accidently move from on to off and then the aperture is easily moved.

    The IQ is generally good, but I find the lens a bit soft in the corners. I am a long time Olympus 4/3 user, so I am used to the 4 x 3 frame aspect ratio. Setting the RX10 to 4:3 format gives a 26-217mm EFL and cuts out the soft corners.

    In comparison to the RX10 I have an Oly OM-D E-M5. I good light the RX10 can match it, but I am not happy with the RX10 much above ISO 800 while the E-M5 can go to ISO 3200. I have 40-150 (80-300 EFL)and 75-300 (150-600 EFL) lenses for the E-M5 so that is the preferred solution if I need something longer than 200. The Sony zoom ring turns the opposite direction to the Oly, which I find hard to remember.

    I like the weather sealing on the RX10. I have it on the E-M5 too, but only with the kit zoom lens.

    I mainly do stock photography, and the great majority of my stock collection (8000 images) could have been made if I only had the RX10. It is well made and versatile.
    Peter J

    OM-D E-M5 GX7, Various Oly and Panasonic lenses Sony RX100. SonyRX10
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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by pjphoto59 View Post
    I have had the RX10 for about six months now. I have used it quite a lot and have become accustomed to it. It is a very convenient way to carry a camera with a 24-200 EFL f2.8 lens. It sits well in the hand and controls are well placed. Only two “niggles”:

    (1) The zoom is slow to operate. I tried using the step zoom function (which used to work very well indeed on my Ricoh GX100) but sadly the Sony set up is poor compared with the Ricoh. On the Ricoh I used to carry the camera set with step zoom at 50mm EFL. The FL could then be moved quickly up or down. If you switched the camera off it stayed at the zoom setting you last used. The Sony does not do this, but reverts to 24mm EFL if you switch off. So I do not use step zoom and mainly use the toggle around the shutter release for zoom control.

    (2) The switch for the “click” setting on the aperture ring is easy to accidently move from on to off and then the aperture is easily moved.

    The IQ is generally good, but I find the lens a bit soft in the corners. I am a long time Olympus 4/3 user, so I am used to the 4 x 3 frame aspect ratio. Setting the RX10 to 4:3 format gives a 26-217mm EFL and cuts out the soft corners.

    In comparison to the RX10 I have an Oly OM-D E-M5. I good light the RX10 can match it, but I am not happy with the RX10 much above ISO 800 while the E-M5 can go to ISO 3200. I have 40-150 (80-300 EFL)and 75-300 (150-600 EFL) lenses for the E-M5 so that is the preferred solution if I need something longer than 200. The Sony zoom ring turns the opposite direction to the Oly, which I find hard to remember.

    I like the weather sealing on the RX10. I have it on the E-M5 too, but only with the kit zoom lens.

    I mainly do stock photography, and the great majority of my stock collection (8000 images) could have been made if I only had the RX10. It is well made and versatile.
    Thanks for your reply - much appreciated. Too late, however, to stop me getting an RX10...!

    I've now owned it for a week-and-a-half, and I've been impressed with it, so far. I think that it will fit the rôle that I envisaged for it.

    Regarding your two 'niggles'...

    1) I agree about the slow zoom, but as I don't do fast-action photography, it matters little to me. Incidentally, if you set the camera to your favourite settings - including the desired focal length - and store them in one of the Memory settings, when the camera is switched on (with the dial set to the appropriate memory number), the camera 'remembers' all the settings, and the lens will revert to the selected focal length.

    2) I have inadvertently changed the aperture click setting only once, so far... it remains to be seen whether this becomes much of a problem for me.

    I find the image quality quite good in most circumstances, and of course, I fully accept that it's not going to match my FF DSLR kit. However, the intention was to have something a little more versatile than the RX100, and more convenient than the DSLR kit. Somewhere, I saw the RX10 described as the 'Swiss army knife' of cameras, and I'd tend to agree - I think that it fulfills this concept rather well.
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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by tbhv55 View Post
    Thanks for your reply - much appreciated. Too late, however, to stop me getting an RX10...!

    I've now owned it for a week-and-a-half, and I've been impressed with it, so far. I think that it will fit the rôle that I envisaged for it.

    Regarding your two 'niggles'...

    1) I agree about the slow zoom, but as I don't do fast-action photography, it matters little to me. Incidentally, if you set the camera to your favourite settings - including the desired focal length - and store them in one of the Memory settings, when the camera is switched on (with the dial set to the appropriate memory number), the camera 'remembers' all the settings, and the lens will revert to the selected focal length.

    2) I have inadvertently changed the aperture click setting only once, so far... it remains to be seen whether this becomes much of a problem for me.

    I find the image quality quite good in most circumstances, and of course, I fully accept that it's not going to match my FF DSLR kit. However, the intention was to have something a little more versatile than the RX100, and more convenient than the DSLR kit. Somewhere, I saw the RX10 described as the 'Swiss army knife' of cameras, and I'd tend to agree - I think that it fulfills this concept rather well.
    Welcome to the elite band of RX10 camera owners! I certainly had no intention of putting anyone off buying one.

    Thanks for the tip about putting favorite settings on a memory setting. I will try it. Maybe MEM 1 at 50mm and MEM 2 at 100, then it will be like choosing to start with 24mm, 50mm or 100mm.

    I have just been tinkering with Flickr, thinking I might open an account there. Could not find any groups etc. for the RX10 (unless anyone here knows better).

    I just spent the afternoon at an Agricultural show using the RX10, maybe missed a few shots through having the zoom in the wrong place but I would have missed more with the E-M5 through having to change lenses.
    Peter J

    OM-D E-M5 GX7, Various Oly and Panasonic lenses Sony RX100. SonyRX10
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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by pjphoto59 View Post
    I certainly had no intention of putting anyone off buying one.
    In reality, there wasn't much danger of that, anyway! The deal was effectively done, from the moment that I handled one.

    Quote Originally Posted by pjphoto59 View Post
    maybe missed a few shots through having the zoom in the wrong place but I would have missed more with the E-M5 through having to change lenses.
    Yes, that's precisely how I see it.

    I generally prefer prime lenses, and the stepped zoom setting allows me to pretend that I'm using seven separate primes, but without all the accompanying fuss and bother .

    There's something about the RX10 lens that really rather appeals to me. Of course, it might be just the fact that it's a Zeiss...

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by tbhv55 View Post
    In reality, there wasn't much danger of that, anyway! The deal was effectively done, from the moment that I handled one.



    Yes, that's precisely how I see it.

    I generally prefer prime lenses, and the stepped zoom setting allows me to pretend that I'm using seven separate primes, but without all the accompanying fuss and bother .

    There's something about the RX10 lens that really rather appeals to me. Of course, it might be just the fact that it's a Zeiss...
    I had high hopes for the stepped zoom, which had worked so well for me on the Ricoh GX100, but I had to give up in the end simply because the zoom direction is the "wrong" way for me.

    I use the toggle in front of the shutter button for zooming - at least that works the same way as the RX100. If I have time, I can fine tune the zoom position using the ring, but usually I just go a bit wider than needed and tune by cropping. I routinely crop all the 20MP images down to 16MP anyway.

    I have now preset M1 to 50mm EFL and M2 to 100mm EFL. I need to work with it to see if it is worthwhile in practice.
    Peter J

    OM-D E-M5 GX7, Various Oly and Panasonic lenses Sony RX100. SonyRX10

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by pjphoto59 View Post
    I had to give up in the end simply because the zoom direction is the "wrong" way for me.
    Yes, I can see how this would be annoying, if you're accustomed to zooming in the reverse direction.

    Fuji implemented a setting on the x100, to permit the focus ring direction to be reversed. Whether something similar could be implemented for zoom (and focus) on the RX10, I don't know. Even if it's technically possible, it is, perhaps, unlikely... my understanding is that Sony firmware updates are quite rare.

    Quote Originally Posted by pjphoto59 View Post
    I have now preset M1 to 50mm EFL and M2 to 100mm EFL. I need to work with it to see if it is worthwhile in practice.
    Hopefully, this will go some way to alleviate one of your 'niggles'...!


    I took the RX10 out for some shooting today (nothing special - just a walkabout), and I have to say that I'm becoming increasingly impressed with it. I'm already starting to feel quite comfortable using it, which is a good sign.

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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by tbhv55 View Post
    Yes, I can see how this would be annoying, if you're accustomed to zooming in the reverse direction.

    Fuji implemented a setting on the x100, to permit the focus ring direction to be reversed. Whether something similar could be implemented for zoom (and focus) on the RX10, I don't know. Even if it's technically possible, it is, perhaps, unlikely... my understanding is that Sony firmware updates are quite rare.



    Hopefully, this will go some way to alleviate one of your 'niggles'...!


    I took the RX10 out for some shooting today (nothing special - just a walkabout), and I have to say that I'm becoming increasingly impressed with it. I'm already starting to feel quite comfortable using it, which is a good sign.
    On my Olympus cameras you can reverse the direction of the focus (which is electrically powered), but sadly not the zoom ring, which is reassuringly mechanical, at least on all the lenses that I have.

    Glad the RX10 is working well for you. What do you think of the IQ from the lens?
    Peter J

    OM-D E-M5 GX7, Various Oly and Panasonic lenses Sony RX100. SonyRX10
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    Re: Where's the fun with the RX10?

    Quote Originally Posted by pjphoto59 View Post
    the zoom ring, which is reassuringly mechanical
    Indeed... I would prefer a mechanical zoom - ideally with detents at the same steps that the powered zoom has. Perhaps on the Mk2?

    Quote Originally Posted by pjphoto59 View Post
    What do you think of the IQ from the lens?
    As yet, it's too early to assess over a wide range of situations, but so far, I'm very impressed. As I commented before, I'm quite happy to accept that it's not going to match my FF camera plus primes. However, I'm very pleased with how well it performs for a do-it-all camera.

  32. #32
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    Unlimited flash sync and silent shutter

    I'm surprised that no one is mentioning the two most important features of the RX10: sync at all shutter speeds, and silent shutter.

    I used to keep around a Nikon D70s for when I knew I was going to be taking pictures of people outdoors in sunlight with fill flash. The D70 series is the last DSLR to have electronic shutter and sync at all speeds. But 6mp seems a bit limiting these days since I often print in larger sizes. The alternative has been the Hasselblad H series and Phase One cameras with leaf shutters. But now the RX10 neatly fills this requirement with its electronic shutter. I can shoot portraits at 200mm f2.8 (using the built-in ND filter) in bright sunlight with flash fill. And now I can have 20 mp without the need for Hasselblad/PhaseOne.

    The other advantage is the silent shutter which is helpful more than I expected. I can shoot comfortably in Las Vegas theaters (Circus Solei allows non-flash photography), and street photography is more discrete.

    The only weakness of this camera is at high ISO where A7s, or Pentax 645z is much better. Flash sync is usually not important for high ISO situations.

    ==Doug

  33. #33
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    Re: Unlimited flash sync and silent shutter

    Quote Originally Posted by douglaspboyd View Post
    I'm surprised that no one is mentioning the two most important features of the RX10: sync at all shutter speeds, and silent shutter.

    I used to keep around a Nikon D70s for when I knew I was going to be taking pictures of people outdoors in sunlight with fill flash. The D70 series is the last DSLR to have electronic shutter and sync at all speeds. But 6mp seems a bit limiting these days since I often print in larger sizes. The alternative has been the Hasselblad H series and Phase One cameras with leaf shutters. But now the RX10 neatly fills this requirement with its electronic shutter. I can shoot portraits at 200mm f2.8 (using the built-in ND filter) in bright sunlight with flash fill. And now I can have 20 mp without the need for Hasselblad/PhaseOne.

    The other advantage is the silent shutter which is helpful more than I expected. I can shoot comfortably in Las Vegas theaters (Circus Solei allows non-flash photography), and street photography is more discrete.

    The only weakness of this camera is at high ISO where A7s, or Pentax 645z is much better. Flash sync is usually not important for high ISO situations.

    ==Doug
    I agree - these features make the RX10 pretty special. In fact, I'd say that the RX10 is pretty special. I've had mine for nearly a month, and I'm becoming seriously impressed with it...

    I'm actually quite surprised that it seems to have a relatively low profile in the marketplace.

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    Re: Unlimited flash sync and silent shutter

    Quote Originally Posted by tbhv55 View Post
    I agree - these features make the RX10 pretty special. In fact, I'd say that the RX10 is pretty special. I've had mine for nearly a month, and I'm becoming seriously impressed with it...

    I'm actually quite surprised that it seems to have a relatively low profile in the marketplace.
    I think it is not noticed because people like me initially thought it was just another point-and-shoot superzoom camera. And it was buried between the announcements of the A7 cameras and the RX100 series.

    ==Doug

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